Congratulations to Sir Michael, Alexander and your respective teams for completing this transaction.
As one of the airline's founders, albeit with no current involvement, I am delighted to see that it appears all BMED jobs are secure.
Good luck BMED for your future within the BMI Group.

What makes you so sure about the job security? Must be a large number of management who see their positions as a touch precarious. Even bmi don't need 2 sets of postholders, fleet managers etc. Not mention Captains warily looking at bmi's current surplus in that position.

I think it's a fantastic opportunity for both companies.
For "us" on the shop floor at bmi (baby), we never saw this coming.
It's the first really positive move for a long time.
And some interesting new routes for us to consider.

Good on yer Nige !....( and the rest of the top floor boys).

BMED and BMI
 

As someone who has been at BMED for 10 years I welcome the move by BMI. I just wish that ALL my colleagues at BMED rather than just 99% were a little more positive.

BMED has much to offer, much to learn and this is almost certainly a win-win for all of us. New routes, better slots, more jobs, expansion, more experience ...

Thanks to BMI, and the people there that have welcomed us so far.
Cheers!

ps See you all in FNA, BEY, AMM, DAM, ALP, DKR, KRT, ADD, GYD, EVN, TBS, THR, ALA, FRU, ESB, HBE, SVX .....

As for BA - good riddance, crap handling, crap marketing, they missed out and have just lost 17 routes, 17 points of transfer traffic, £x million in franchise fees .... bye!!!!! Oh yes, dont forget that BA will loose 8m off their bottom line in fees we have paid for handling and engineering

Roll on full-BMI at the end of the summer!

Word is, loads of promotions at bmi; all BMED's to the bottom of the seniority list and into the right hand seat. "Strict rotational seniority will apply".

It seems like the end of an era. I have had a great time with British Mediterranean/BMED. I sincerely hope there will be jobs for all, but I suspect that any duplicated role will be at threat. I empathise for all in the office (except perhaps commercial...). Here's to Des Hetherington - I hope he's not too restless in his grave over the sad demise of BMED.

Let us hope that at last we may get decent ground handling at LHR. I would love to know how many pax deserted us due to their bags being lost in T4...

Word is, loads of promotions at bmi; all BMED's to the bottom of the seniority list and into the right hand seat. "Strict rotational seniority will apply".

Spot the troll :\

Check your facts
 

1 BMI can not change anyones terms and conditions, due to the nature of the purchase of shares - therefore BMED boys will stay where they are.
2 Call your BALPA rep - they already agreed that!

For the sake of the pilots in both airlines I hope an amicable agreement can be reached wrt any seniority issues although the issue of seniority list merger can be very difficult. Perhaps more to the point will be the scope issues that this will inevitably raise. I am not an expert here but I understand that the BMED employess have their T's and C's protect under TUPE - but bmi mainline pilots have the sole and exclusive rights to perform all flights operated by the bmi GROUP to and from LHR. I suspect that this agreement would not stand up in a court of law and the company will be able to operate the two units side by side but on different terms and conditions. This will allow a very gradual but inevitable slide in the T's and C's of mainline pilots. Expansion will take place within the BMED unit and reduction will take place at mainline. Just a few thoughts. As I say I am not an expert in these areas.

From what I heard, the BMI guys may not get it all their own way..... BMI has what? 350 pilots and BMed 150, so there is not an overwhelming majority.
I had heard that BMed would be get as a separate company (like regional & baby), and that the A330's would transfer to BMed by the end of the year to be flown by BMed pilots - it's just another way of reducing costs, and it also gives BMI an excuse to end B scales. Any extra 330's could be used non-stop on routes like Almaty, Tehran, Khartoum etc
The BMed guys can't all be demoted because of TUPE. Maybe BMI crews will be able to transfer into BMed when vacancies arise.
It is more likely that BMI will just use BMed as a way of keeping costs down whilst they expand their long haul operation.
BMed do not have any more aircraft on order, the current 320/321 orders are BA order slots.
I think that the BMed guys have a lot to look forward to - secure jobs, A330's to fly and very little change to their current rosters and T's & C's(i think that their pensions are better too). So for BMed, the futures bright, the futures blue.

A330 to BMED!
 

If the A330's are gonna move across to BMED at the end of the year, then why was it announced 2 weeks ago that all current flight supervisors will be dual-fleeted and A330 trained??????

The BMED and BMI's crew will be integrated by the end of summer. BMED eventually will not exist. That's the whole point of the buy-out.:ok:

I cant wait!

A330 to BMed
 

Well, think about it,
ALL BMed cabin crew currently have medium/lomg haul experience with experience of delivering a business class product. SOME BMI crew have this experience. Therefore, it is quite likely that the BMed crew will continue to offer their experience, but will now also be able to do it on the A330. You may not like it, but it does make bisiness sense.
Also, the talk a few weeks ago about training shorthaul flight supervisors onto the A330 too, PREDATES recent events. It is probably no longer valid as it would have been decided long before the announcement was made.
Things change rapidly in aviation as we have just seen.

Moving the A330 aircraft to BMed is just too obvious a route to take to be ignored. It will save BMI ££££££££££

I just hope that SMB and the rest of the team at Donington Hall are going to be able to turn two underperforming airlines into one good one. I can't see what this is other than buying market share...

I wish you all the best guys as we're all in trouble if it goes pear shaped.

Re: TUPE

Who said anything about demotion? As long as the guys are paid (for which read "mark time") on their Current P1 salary at date of transfer, bmi can quite legally put them in the Right Hand Seat as Co-Pilot.

This is entirely TUPE-legal, and there are precedents both pre and post-TUPE.

Makes perfect sense for bmi to replace all BMED Capts with their own pilots. The base managers have long since been looking for a way to reduce the command surplus and and offer some new promotions, this does it at a stroke. Also it provides a rapid introduction to the "kick in the teeth, you're lucky to have a job" bmi management style to the BMED guys.

As for 2 separate companies, you are kidding. Why would you want the expense of 2 sets of AOC postholders and managers at the same airport, flying the same aircraft types? It's a complete waste of money. BMED has been taken over, it will be no more.....

PS Psychobfh, 350 to 150 is a seriously overwhelming majority! The 150 could all have 2 votes and still lose!

What is TUPE? An agreement between the pilots and the BMED board? If so, it just evaporated, you can't seriously expect your new owners to abide by all your previous agreements. Everyone will be moved onto a single agreement for service with common pay scales. bmi's normal tactic would be to offer you the chance to re-apply for your job, on the new t's and c's. It sounds harsh but BMED didn't seem to have many alternatives.

PSYCOBFH - I think that you don't understand Sir Michael's love for bmi. The whole reason bmi has survived as it has and with the embryonic longhaul operation is because it wants it like that. Bean counters would have shut it down years ago! It's his train set and he wants bmi to be long (and medium) haul!
Buying BMED would be a commercial tool to help achieve this. It'd be suprising to see BMED survive as it is, there just would be too much complication for two similar but separate bmi operations at LHR so expect soon to be over at the Central Area in T1!:uhoh:
Whenever airlines merge, there's always winners and losers and its always done a little differently (BA/BCAL, BA/Dan Air.....) but looking at when bmi last merged in another airline - London City in 1990: Ranks were maintained, seniority positions (for determining leave/staff travel etc) were established by the merger date (i.e. at the bottom of the then BMA list), but for the purpose of LIFO in case of contraction, seniority was deemed the date of joining the respective airline, so the joining date was shown in the seniority list as the date you joined your airline. You can still see this ex-London City rationale in the current List. :8
However, what we do know is at the moment - no-one knows!! := :rolleyes:

Hey Max! Are you American?
 

From the school of " Halt, bang bang, who goes there?" diplomacy.
I'm sure you are very charming but you might have had the grace to at least google TUPE first before spouting forth and looking a tart;)
Why do you stay if you are so unhappy? And why is there a surplus of Captains at BMI?
See you soon.............

Gee Bru, are you Belgian, where is Belgia exactly?

Oh You mean THAT TUPE! That TUPE may well not apply, since there has been a take over by share transfer, and BMED may well no longer retain its original identity.

You make some interesting assumptions; Why do i stay where? What is it i am unhappy with?:=
I am more than happy with my place on the planet, thank you, no need to move.

Max Nightstop

Still you neglect to address the fact that you are ignorant to TUPE and the fact that what you said made your whole post look ill-informed and purely speculative!

Princess,
It's a rumour network, i am fully entitled to be speculative! Can't help being ill-informed, i'm just idle, but you have used the wrong tense. Am now fully "googled". And like the rest of us non-employment lawyers, am now slightly more informed, and a little information can be seriously dangerous!

As for the rest of my post, i'm still pretty sure that 350 is more than twice 150, and that 2 sets of post holders is a waste of money!

:)

Max... I made the, obviously naive, assumption that......
 

You worked for BMI....

Your post is, presumably, intended to give the impression that you are on the inside with your deep, thoughtful, analytical insight and knowledge on the workings of BMI management.

Do you have anything constructive to offer the topic? If not, try and STFU and stop wasting bandwidth;) .....You might have to Google that as well :cool:

Probably the only remaining question is, which one?

Uranus?

Live long and prosper!

BMed Guys and Gals welcome to BMI, im sure no one has anything to fear.I for one look forward to learning from my future colleagues and making new friendships.

Thanks Saddler......
 

I think the crews (both sides of the door) will be fine........ Great opportunities sometimes come from adversity........

The people I really feel for are the support guys like those in ops and perhaps engineering too...... Some great people, but you just know that some will probably be surplus to requirements. :(

I suppose the up side is that the franchise continuing for the rest of the Summer season gives everybody a chance to polish up the old c.v.

Max Nightstop

Hmmm pedantic too!

Take overs seem to follow me around. This is my second in 3 months. Do I have to wear a hat again?:}

Gee you guys sure are tolerant, do you not have CRM training at BMED? Try to be nice.

Most definitely not pedantic, Princess, was just trying to show that i had learned from my earlier post and was now much better informed, if none the wiser!

As for anything constructive, it matters not a jot what anyone says on here, what Sir Michael and his fellow directors want, is what will happen, period!

Agreed agreed!

FYI i'm not crew, so no CRM for me! HEE HEE!

..and from baby flightdeck
 

Welcome BMED, I hope we can all share a beer in the Travel Inn, after our sim sessions at Stockley! Although all we 'baby's are north of Watford and west of the Isle of Wight, we hope that you'll find the bmi family encouraging and welcoming.

8028410q

CRM.....?
 

Ooooh... I know this one... Captain's Right Mate...?

There is a queue for the lifeboat.
The uncertainty of what happens next has lead to most Bmed pilots sending off CVs. Some already have interviews. The spectre of shorthall is looming and most of us won’t do it.
If BMI management do not need all our pilots – fine.
If they do, better dangle a carrot quick.

Bishop,

bmi have no history of dangling carrots!! Their view is shake the trees and some more pilots will fall out. They apparently have a surplus of Capts and year one FOs are the cheapest. I'm sure they would love a tranche of you to leave. Good luck to you all!

let's look at facts
 

bmed were performing so badly they were going out of business. I think with a little firmer understanding of TUPE and employment law it will become apparent that with saving a failing business, previous T&C's no longer need to be adhered to.
What has happened so far is inherently sensible. Bmeds relatively tiny assets would have been piecemealed and handed back (i think bmi have more LHR slots to Leeds and Teeside than Bmeds entire holding). So instead of this "pot" of assetts being dissolved, bmi have ingested it. A steal at the price.
If I can assure you of one thing, what bmi have purchased is slots,aircraft and contacts with countries that it had already shown a desire to serve. Pilots are the last of their concern as they already have a pool of 6 times as many as bmed. previous threads did not take into account regional and baby. they all work within the group according to date of joining, and the vast majority are cheaper than bmed contract pilots.

The best thing that could happen here is that we all become one big happy family with the result bigger than the sum of the component parts. How these parts shall be integrated remains to be seen. Be a good pilot and have a plan b to hand, as the weather at the destination is unknown and it's a bad time of year. good luck to you all.

Life's not always the party we were promised. but whilst here we might as well dance.

Hi Shafted
 

Can you tell us what this "firmer understanding" you have is based on please?

Do you have experience or background in this field? We plebs at the coal face have only the advice given to us and our own research to go on. I'd certainly be interested in some case law or internet links you have at hand.

I can't find anything that refers to a "struggling" Company takeover and how that affects T&C's in the way you suggest. It's certainly not what the Governments web site suggests. Again, some pointers would be useful.

Your name suggests that you're a "glass half empty" kindaguy?;)

BMED was still in business (albeit for not much longer) at the time of the take over. This makes a significant difference to the terms of TUPE; if BMED had actually gone bust then as you correctly say terms and conditions would not have to be honoured.

There is a big difference between going bust and having gone bust.

A little unfair
 

"As for BA - good riddance, crap handling, crap marketing, they missed out and have just lost 17 routes, 17 points of transfer traffic, £x million in franchise fees .... bye!!!!! Oh yes, dont forget that BA will loose 8m off their bottom line in fees we have paid for handling and engineering"

As some one who has had the pleasure of handling BMED for the last years of my career I think that statement is a little sweeping.

If I were to comment in the same vain I might say that Bmed have been the hardest company to work with.

I have lost count of the amount of times that delays have arrived at LHR with no information from Bmed ops as to what to expect.

The level of ticketing and reservations service coming out of the departure stations is questionable.

Although I have felt that Bmed have tarnished the colours they flew in - I will still be sorry to see them go.

Hi Renbabe,
 

To be fair to that original poster, he does have some valid points...........

Whether the finger is pointed at the right target......... I know not.........

But as an operator at the pointy end, the service we have received has been crap and is getting worse.

The people I have dealt with, primarily the Redcaps and the odd bod that comes down to the aircraft have been fine. There just seems to be a general air of frustration everywhere at LHR. Individuals seem to be doing the best they can, but somebody at management level is not putting sufficient resources or planning into delivering a service that fellow workers are happy with, never mind the customers.

Whether it be baggage handling, enough people to man the gates, availability of tugs, availability of drivers for steps on remote stands, hi-lift availability, somebody to turn on the stand guidance.......... it just goes on and on and on.

Economic scale works against us as well. If BA pisses 10 people off enough to fly with another carrier, would they notice? If those same 10 people fly BMED routes, then yes, it hurts us big time.

Enough crap happens to make aviation a dodgy enough job as it is; economic cycles, war, fuel crisis, weather etc etc but the crap that's happening at the moment is just crazy, own goal, shoot ourselves in the foot stuff.

In our case, we pay a considerable sum of money for our ground handling but to be honest we don't really know whether the fault lies with BAA or BA or both. So please don't take personal sleight, my anger is certainly aimed higher up the chain.

Again, with the marketing, the fact is that our new routes were/are poorly advertised. Where the fault lies is a bigger question. It's bloody frustrating when you speak to British Embassy staff down route and even they don't know that BA/BMED have started a service! What chance the paying public?

I can't speak for ops, maybe they will reply themselves, but I've worked for 5 airlines and they are as good as, if not better, than any others.

I'm not sure I understand your point about our outstations and your interface with them?

Anyway, keep smiling. I am proud to have flown the BA colours, even by proxy. I would just like to have not made excuses as often as I have.......

At least that’s one thing that will be reassuringly familiar once you are part of bmi.

T4
 

I flew low cost in Central Europe before coming to BMED and I have to say the biggest culture shock has been life on the ground at LHR T4. This is supposed to be the premium sector of "UK Aviation"; certainly people pay a bit and sometimes a lot of a premium to fly here and I have to agree with my colleagues on here who say that it is simply unacceptable ... even the Italians do better !

Late last year after an 11h duty I sat, with my captain and 6 crew, passing the time in the cabin and trying to keep a slightly distressed disabled lady and her family informed and entertained as we waited..and waited..and waited more than 40 mins for a hi-lift which I had clearly asked for (and had acknowledged) 10 mins prior to top of descent (and repeatedly once on the ground). I was told there are only 2 units available. I used to fly to little Dortmund (a little gem of an airport, worked like clockwork for us even during the world cup) and even they had 2 hi-lifts ! The resources (or resource pairs, driver+machine) just aren't there.

That same day a BA jumbo called airport centre to say that he'd been waiting an hour for someone to come and turn on the ground power!

I could go on and on. The Red Caps and most of the staff are, for the most part, doing their best and are very pleasant and helpful, but the "system" as a whole within BA handling just isn't working well enough at T4, for BMED at least. They request things, and nothing happens. Ops put in the same request, and we call on the radio too .. the support just isn't there when needed.

Plus there always seems to be some simmering industrial relations issue, and sometimes the discontent manifests itself as '70s style pig-headedness! Throughout Nov/Dec it was the loaders (pity all our connecting pax whose luggage didn't connect to their destination, because it was still sat on the BA or BMED service they arrived on) and their "new working pocedures", which were clearly anything but.

After a long shift back from somewhere like Addis or Almaty it is also unreasonable for the crew to wait another 45mins for our bags to come out of the hold, but my main concern is that the combination of poor management, big-company-itis, and a few militants will simply drive our passengers to connect in Frankfurt, Amsterdam or Paris. Whatever issues people have there are other ways of addressing them .. for all our sakes we need to be professional, to give the customer a pleasant and seamless experience .. anything else is a shot in the foot!

So I'm simply hoping that this aspect of our daily lives will improve under bmi. Something deep inside me makes me proud to fly the union flag, but mostly these days like most of my colleagues I am just ashamed. I think I speak for the crews when I say we care about delivering a premium product, and we're getting tired of having to make a fuss, and still having to apologise to our customers. It is such a shame.

Regarding tupes
 

Sorry for the delay in replying. The following describes TUPES:

When an organised group of people, eg employees, and assets - known as a stable economic entity - is transferred from one business to another and retains its identity after the transfer, the transfer falls under the scope of the Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations 2006 (TUPE).
Not all transfers are relevant transfers. TUPE does not apply in the following instances:
• Transfer by share takeover. When a company's shares are sold to new shareholders, there is no transfer of the business - the same company continues to be the employer.
• When a business transfers assets only, eg if equipment is sold.
• Transfers of undertakings situated outside the UK - although similar provisions apply in the EU.
• Change of business identity, eg if the work or organisational structure changes radically.


As I read it the share buy and the fact that the assets shall be merged into a different brand/company operating to a different C of A and Ops manual, preclude bmi from adhering to TUPES. Once the A/c are in bmi colors (end of summer timetable) i think some big changes will be afoot. bmi press release also states that Bmed have 750 staff, and they shall operate as the currently do for the immediate future, (i.e until october).

Although I know BALPA can be our saviours, they have been proved wrong before and may well again on this one. I know you have one or two ex bmi capts with you, ask them what they think may happen? but trust me, always have an adequate alternate.

Please ignore my handle!! it came about years ago and if I was one to gripe I'd post more than 20 times in 5 years. :confused:

Agreed..........
 

And has just been confirmed by our CEO that BMED still exists as a business, they are our employer and everything continues as is, under our existing T&C's............

BMI just happens to be the new majority shareholder...............

It seems we are in limbo until the wheels decide what they want to do with the business post IATA summer season when the franchise ends. That's when the fur could fly......... or maybe it will all be very amicable! :p

"Ladieees and Gentlemen, the Fat Lady has left the building!"

P.S. She'll be back in September............

Let the rumourmongering begin!