Pilots leaveing City Jet turns into a flood
 

A total of 5 capatains have left City Jet within the last week. 3 for Emirate's,1 for Easy Jet and 1 for Dragon. A considerable amount of f/o's are to resign next month to join Ryan Air. Recent management "communications meetings" have being attended by as few as 3 pilots at at time. If management have still not got the message that morale is at an all time low by now they never will.
It is vitally important that City Jet pilots attent the IALPA meetings that are scheduled to start shortly. It is also vital that City Jet pilots realise that all IALPA needs is more than 50% of pilots to vote for a City Jet working group. The pilots that vote may not nessecarily be members of IALPA,or turn up at IALPA meetings, but the fact that they vote will give IALPA the mandate to represent us.You can still remain totally annonymouse and escape management bullying. Details will follow. Support IALPA and things will change for the better.,

The French were expecting to get PB on a free transfer from FR but he ain't moving.

Don't tell me Jack the Knife is still there throwing his insignificant weight and height around???
Oh well, what goes round comes round. Shame.

Capt.Paul Skinback You have my sympathy, I work for the Evil Empire accross the road and no doubt the downward pressure your employer is trying to apply to your salary and terms and conditions is as a direct affect of what they see happening over here. Monkey see Monkey do. It should be a stark warning to Pilots in all Airlines that a sneering "I'm allright Jack" attitude will turn around and give them a major bite in the ass.

The only way for you guys in Cityjet is to get yourself organised. I can tell you from what I've seen IALPA are the business, they certainly shame the likes of BALPA. Wishing you the best from accross the road!

Couldn't agree more. You need to support IALPA and get yourselves represented. It's the only way to stop the poor treatment and downward slide in terms and conditions.

CityJet Ltd, also trading as Ryanair Lite...

What about all these US Pilots they were going to get?

No one in Cityjet top brass can be suprised they are loosing people. Their Salary is crap. 33K STG a year for a Captain is hardly anything to get excited about is it?

Ah yes - and the beatings WILL continue until pilot morale improves. You've been warned :E
It's the wx way.....

Pilots leaving Cityjet
 

Why are so many pilots leaving CityJet? What is the current pay for Captains there? I might be interviewing there in the near future so any info would be a great help.
Thanks,
Iwagg

I applied a few years ago, and cocked up and missed my Ryanair flight from BVA and the planned interview. Whilst I regretted it at the time( as I was living in Paris) their subsequent attitude , and the salary / conditions I retrospectively heard of years later, led me to believe I had a lucky escape.Travelled as a pax with them a few times when I did a bit of Fokkering out of CDG with Gill , and always found our AF franchise competitor's crews friendly and welcoming, but always felt I was being intoxicated by Bae`s finest fumes in the cabin. If they are calling you Ryanairlite it sounds time to move (seriously) up, or out.

Whats up with the morale at cityjet? OK, money is always an issue but in most cases the company morale is depending on a couple of subtle details. :sad: Or if I asked the other way around: Could a salary increase alone boost the morale? :cool: Is there a difference between Dublin and Paris based crews? What need to be done and can it be done?
Good luck anyway!

Cityjet is has/is hiring former RJ85 Captains / FO's from Mesaba Airlines. Captain pay is almost $100K and FO pay is around $65K and the income is tax free. Plus cityjet is giving each Mesaba pilot their own furnished apartment + a car. They have offered Mesaba pilots 1 year contracts and it sounds like their will be a good chance to extended the contract if cityjet is indeed short staffed. It sounds like a pretty good compensation package to me. Do the 1 year Mesaba contracts fall in line with how the other cityjet pilots are compensated?

How are City Jet employing american certified pilots? Did the guys convert thier qualifications by sitting all the JAA exams? Can European pilots now work in the US? This isnt a party political broadcast but in asking around I have heard differing explanations and a good deal of woffle.

That was probably BEFORE the recent french law which states that if your operational base is in france you have to pay social security (and probably soon taxes as well) in france, whatever company you work for wherever you live. So be carefull with tax free....

How much are French taxes? Is it pretty similiar to the US where if you make $100K gross you will net about $70

Interesting statement. After over a decade at an ALPA carrier my observation was that for 1.95 percent of your gross pay they would give great lip service to the needs of the regional pilots while spending all of their time supporting the needs of the mainline pilot.

I'll never willingly give another penny to ALPA.

'ALPA', the US Airline Pilots Association, are a very different organisation to 'IALPA', the Irish Airline Pilots Association :hmm:

There is, quite literally, an ocean between them.
The world does not revolve around the ‘US’ acebaxter.... (despite CityJet's current recruitment policy).

How can US pilots be employed in Europe. Ask the IAA , who have always allowed Ryanair a "little" bit of latitude in whom they employ. For further clarification rearrange the following words to reproduce a malicious accusation. . . . . . . bag, cash ,paper ,full of, brown. As far as taxes go, City Jet is not Air France so the core operation is in Dublin. This normally should result in City Jet being allowed to pay your social charges in Ireland , and you likewise your taxes, to your mutual benefit. The Frogs can come knocking on your door to claim the shortfall between what you paid in Ireland , and what you would have paid in France, but as you guys (still ? ) nightstop quite a bit, with decent advice on what you can offset against tax - a lot - they could actually end up owing you money, so I don't think that is too much of a worry.

CPS, there is a brand new law in france which states that if your operational base is in france, you will pay social security in france even if you work for an Irish company. The victims are: CitiJet, Ryanair and Easy...

Interesting Sarah. How much of a $100,000 salary will go towards Social Security tax in France?

Bit more complicated than that Sarah.

eJ for sure will be taking legal action against that, as apprently it breaches EU Law. Wouldn't be the first time France is forced by the EU to back down.

In any case the legal procedings could take years, so it is unlikely the situation of those flyng for cityjet or eJ will change in the forseable future.

As for tax in France, it is a bit difficult to evaluate, as the system is much much more complicated than in the uk. I would say ballpark figure would be 50% of your gross salary will go towards tax (NI, income tax etc...). Also you will be taxed on the value of your house if you own one. Therefore it is my understanding that the foreign carrier crews working in France are quite happy to pay tax elsewhere, quite understandably!

Ekka, I don't work for Cityjet, I work across the road for Ryanair. I can tell you what is upsetting people though, because the same thing happens over here too. Neither of these airlines pays an appropriate salary or has terms and conditions good enough to attract and retain experienced European Nationals with JAA licenses.

They then somehow get permission from the Government for work permits for a host of Nationalities like Americans and Brazilians to name but a very few. You come over and work for this lower salary; you exploit yourselves and the others here. This is doubly galling as there is no way in hell that a US carrier or the government would allow this. The fact that these airlines have convinced the Government in Ireland there is a genuine shortage of Pilots is a scandal. What puts the cherry on the cake, and I say this loud and clear- I am not talking about Cityjet Pilots, some of these people coming in then do not pay any income tax, anywhere.

I would just like to add that I am not a member of the BNP or a xenophobic nutcase. I have many good friends on the flight deck from the host of Nations. This is not about you as an American. It is about the Government allowing a situation to develop that should never be there.

Although it angers me my professionalism, which is our downfall sometimes with these exploitative employers, stops me from treating my oversea colleagues any different.

Welcome to Ireland, the Guinness does taste better and the girls are beautiful!

Ekka, I forgot to add another point. I currently carry loans exceeding 100,000 Euros. This is what it costs a European to get all their ratings, and of course here in Europe we have painted ourselves into a corner by paying for our type ratings too. I could have saved about 50K Euros by taking FAA licences and getting a Validation from the IAA. They won't let me but they will let people from Outside the EU. It is very strange behaviour. Those of us who know how the IAA operate are not suprised.

I can also say as a Statement of fact that even though the IAA will say that they will only give a validation for a period of one year, during which the 14 ATPL exams have to be done. People seem to be granted multiple validations without having sat any exams. Again this is not against the Americans or the Brazilians or any other nationality but it should not be happening.

Good move. Have you seen how completely mental people go in Jetblast!?

Best of Luck again.

Hello,


If your not happy at Cityjet, just get out and leave all the people that are happy alone. If you have problems bring it up with the management. Morale is still high, it always will be Cityjet have very enthuisatic crews when working, yes we complain about the management but who doesn't. Just for the Record, the americans are decent guys, they work and they are good lads. Dont take it out on them, its the management you want to have a word with.

Fairplay !!!!!! Everyone deserve a change!

cityjet bullying
 

cityjet do not treat all there kids fairly , you have the training Dept,1 rule.Our American brothers,rule 2, and our favorite kid , rule 3.
All you are left with then are a few line drivers.
The girls get treated like crap ,bullied, and brused.Stay away ALL.
In some cases they are worse then ryneair.At least they are straight about it.:ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

Lets Get Real
 

The real problem is nothing to do with Licenses or nationality, it is the fact that the American Pilots are on a significantly better deal then any other line pilot in the company!.
They have a higher salary, housing allowance and car allowance, this is all probably worth three grand more a month then the rest of us are on.

The pilots in Cityjet have no one to blame but themselves, they take this treatment from management. Rather then crib about the Americans deal they should fight to get the same package themselves, then we will see what management have to say. :} :}

Yes I have the answers from the Horses mouth,
These guys experiance levels are not any higher then very many pilots in Cityjet.
Can you imagine the uproar in the Good Ole' USA if Masebe brought a bunch of European pilots over and paid them more then there local colleagues.:ugh:

Ekka
Acebaxter was not referring to IFALPA! He was moaning about paying his subs to 'US ALPA', which is fine, except it is of no relevance to this thread and of no interest to anyone in CityJet, anymore than the price of bread in Walmart....

Personally I have no issue with crew of any nationality working for any Irish carrier, provided those individuals are recruited on the same basis as EU licence holders, and provided they are employed under the same terms and conditions. Is that not what you Americans refer to as a fair deal?

Ekka,

please refer to my last point, Can you imagine the uproar in the Good Ole' USA if Masebe brought a bunch of European pilots over and paid them more then there local colleagues.
True some of these guys are very experianced however funnily enough there are experianced pilots in Cityjet, my point is there package which includes Housing and a car is far better, not just a little, then there equivelant European pilot.
Yes you are right contracts are private, I am only going on what I was told by one of these guys, However how can pilots plan a career in an airline that has two classes of membership:ugh:

This is really the nub of the problem for the Cityjet guys. It is strange logic you use though. "It's ok as long as it is not in my backyard".

Leave
 

That is always said to pilots, if you are not happy ,GET OUT. Thats the answer of a lazy manager,for info morale in city jet is :mad: .They are a bunch of ex so called military pilots,who were bullied in the military,and thats all they know to do well.

very important question at this time!
 

How can we increase utilisation of the aircraft, eg decrease the turn around times??

Sorry friends, but I felt a little humour was called for.


S ure
I ts
G ot
M ostly
A ircorp
R angers

This situation seems to have many similarities to ryanair. What is it about Irish so-called managers and their inability to people manage. Numbers they may be good at, but true leadership is non-existant. As ever, this will come home to roost at some point, as it seems to be doing now in cityjet.

Puddlehopper - "leave if you're not happy" sounds like the ryanair solution to gripes as well. Finally we seem, in ryanair, to realise that staying and fighting to improve matters might be a good option too. You can't keep running forever so its time to support whatever initiative IALPA may have. Remember, you'll still be flying long after your management are out to pasture and enjoying the spoils of your labour. And if cityjet are as stuck for pilots as is claimed, now's the time to hit them hard. The company won't get in trouble for treating you right, but it'll improve your lot a whole lot if it works out.

Ekka - I can tell you from a ryanair point of view why the cityjet situation might aggrieve people. It's the lack of reciprocality, the blatant bribing of the IAA, the undercutting of conditions, the blocking out of jobs for "natives". Nothing against the individuals concerned as people, however they are, unwittingly no doubt, perpetuating the problems just mentioned. Would it happen in the USA? No way, and that's as it should be. However, let's keep it fair. Ultimately no pilot is the winner here. You are merely aiding and abetting those who seek to destroy our profession.

Sounds like ryanair too. Funny how the slower and less armed the "military" aircraft is, the bigger the bully, the more useless and spineless the manager and the grander the war stories. With that in mind, remember that the pride of the Irish "Aer Corps" is the Cessna 172....*

* - Just for our American friends, the "military" pilots of the Aer Corps flew such grand machines as the C172, the King Air and the Marchetti. The average WW2 Spitfire squadron would have no trouble destroying the entire force in about 5 mins flat.

[
Sorry friends, but I felt a little humour was called for.

humour is always good,i feel like i know you,going through the war ,take care

Hey CamelhAir

I agree, and that's allowing for the fact that the 'few' who are still alive are in their 90's by now :E

At the expense of their European colleagues...

This whole topic was extensively aired here on PPRuNe a few months back, and there were contributions from your side of the pond, so you are wrong there. More to the point, you have to be rather naive to think that a whole bunch of American pilots turning up to fly in Ireland is going to be greeted with great glee by your Irish counterparts.

As others have said, this would never be allowed in the US, so why do you think the Irish pilots are going to be happy about it? How is it that you don't get that you are disadvantaging Irish pilots? If the reverse DID happen in the US, and a flood of Irish pilots disadvantaged you, how would you feel?

Pretty angry, I would think.

You can't just say "it's not the pilots' fault". They knew that they would be having the effect described above - you would have to be pretty foolish not to.

I advise the cityjet guys to talk to AF unions about it.I am sure they will be pleased to know what 's going on in WX.

Well to make it fair you'd need something to compensate for flying against aircraft that stall if you actually fire anything!

cityjet ass K****r
 

Moral is in the toilet,unless you are one of the chosen few,eg, x brown shoes,or k*** ass ,you sound like the latter.Icould care less about the americans,its the european pilots,that need to be looked after,but you sound like an ime okay jack, kind of person.Thats all the world needs is more of you.:ok: