If BRS looks like the end of the road for flybacon (or pigs might fly???!) does that suggest an EZY expansion to you?

Talking of which, why not stick in an application for EZY? They will pay you more than flybacon.

Seriously though, good luck to everyone involved I can only sympathise with the disgraceful way in which the news was announced.

Just spent a year at MAN working for a well known BA franchise. Sorry to hear that this has kicked off so soon as you were all promised a couple of years to get Connect up and running profitably. However how will you all cope with the the withdrawal of your brand new BA flight deck uniforms? Some of you haven't even got them yet but it didn't stop the rest from automatically behaving in the time honoured arrogant manner as soon as you put them on. I know I'll take a lot of stick for saying that but as one of those on the receiving end I know it's true. Now you still have jobs but you need to realise who you will be working for.

Those individuals' attitudes are unfortunate, BF.However,there was no choice as to the Company uniform issue.Most thought it was a gesture of ,dare I say,*good will*,and the fact that BACX (sic) was coming out of a bad patch and that BA was prepared to invest.

I don't know what some of you lot are complaining about. I jumped ship 4 years ago, it was easy, and it was the best thing I ever did.

Manx Govt in Cunning Plan to Confuse BA's Sale
 

STOP PRESS

In a cunning attempt to confuse and confound BA's imminent sale of its "loss making" arm BA Connect the Isle of Man Government has , with the tacit and wholehearted agreement of the United Nations, agreed to change its Sovereign name to THE ISLE OF LONDON.

The name transition will take place at 2359 November 5th 2006.

Coincidentally the Capital, Douglas, will be known forthwith as Hampstead-by-the-Sea.

Ronaldsway Airport will also be known as Croydon-on-the-Sands

An unnamed Goverment spokesman commented that such a move is expected to provide a massive investment from BA as its current business strategy appears to be prerequisite for all business caches centred on the London named airports where BA has a presence.

When asked for a comment on this bold move a spokesperson in Mr William Walsh's management team was quoted as "Where the hell is the Isle of Man?".

Further comment from the Isle of Man Goverment was unavailable as the spokesperson was feeding his geese.

Spoof Reuters

Have you been drinking Okells by any chance?

and all stated in the accent of Lilly Savage.

The Tip of the Icebourg
 

This must have been going on behind the scenes for some time and not a leak out at all but to not be proffessional about it until the staff read about many hours before management what does that say about the people at the top looking after our jods????:sad: :sad:

What is next to come out of this?? I and many others must think there could be something else in this story to come out will WW come to each station and give a presentation of the situation.:suspect: :suspect:

It all remains to be seen some of us have been made redundent more than once.:eek: :eek:

Bring back the likes if B.E.A. and B.O.A.C..the staff seemed happier in those days.:ok: :ok:

WW come to the stations?!?! dont be stupid,he hasnt got the balls to do that.gutless little :mad:

Can anyone at Flybe let us know how things work there?

Do you do seniority? Bacon does, but then it has to since there is no other system in place to manage crew other than a staff number. The current managers couldn't be trusted to run anything other than a seniority system and even then they have to be watched. The only way to progress in this company is to try and get into the right lodge and of course being one of Her Majesty's finest helps. Relevant experience qualifications and a proven track record count for nothing. Management jobs are never advertised, they just happen to certain people. :yuk:

Please tell us it is different at Flybe or can we expect more of the same?

To all in Ba Connect,

I know how you are feeling at the moment.
13 years ago I also found out, via the BBC, that Dan-Air had been sold to BA for one pound and that BA were laying off most of the Dan-Air pilots, offering them no more than statutory redundancy ! At the time I had a 2 year old and a 2 week old:{ to provide for and the house we were in negotiations to buy obviously could not be completed. Six months after that I joined FlyBe - they were the hardest 6 months of my life.

Do I hold any ill feeling toward BA crews ? Of course not - as for BA management, well that's different matter. We are all pawns in a big game - trying to make ends meet and pay the mortgage.

The only way I can help you at the moment is to try and answer some of your questions - to be perfectly honest none of us at FlyBe saw this one coming and I, too, only found out yesterday. There are many FlyBe pilots asking questions, which at this stage are not being answered.


FlyBe are not the best of companies but not the worst either. One of the most important things is it's constantly changing - yesterdays being the largest so far. The staff are all great to work with - you actually have fun when you go to work.:D
We do actually have a schedule agreement, it does offer some protection but to be honest it wouldn't be worth me giving you the details yet because we have been fighting to improve it, and our salaries, since April and there is a new one in the pipe line.

The Dash 8 is the fleet at the moment that needs pilots. There is a definite shortage of Dash Capt's - the starting salary for Capt's is around £45K, F/O's start at £27K.
The 146's are being replaced by the EMB195 as we speak, so as you can appreciate seats on the left seat of the 195 will be very slim as there is already a long waiting list and as for the right seat this too has a waiting list but not as long. Capt's start at £51K and F/O's about £31K. All these salaries are about to increase by approx. 5% or else !!:}

That's all I have time for at present but I will try and answer any further questions later today.

Good luck with whatever you decide in the future,:ok:

PJ2

Yes, we better get ready for the inevitable management claims that it was the excessive salaries and payrises(not true) and the scheduling agreement which caused the failure if Bacon. B*****ks. BA managers and their total lack of understanding of anything regional caused the downfall of Bacon. A lot of sensible responsible thought went into putting it together and agreement was written from a point of view of managing lifestyle. Some things were even added to give the company more flexibility than it had before, but these were never used correctly. Nothing in it would have hampered a company which could manage a stable operation with reasonable crewing levels.

Please don't fall for any of the bull that's likely to be heading your way. One of our managers was in the crewroom yesterday banging on about Flybe not wanting anything to do with our scheduling agreement. What a dipstick. If he thinks that going back to the way in which BRAL used to manage resources is a good thing then we are all doomed.

Thanks PJ 2.

What have you been told about seniority? I assume this governs your bidding and promotion?

When we combined BRAL and Brymon it was done on a date of joining basis more or less. That was considered fair and broadly worked.

Different people have different priorities but if it is intended that we should all be bolted to the bottom with even those who have been working for 15 years plus going below your most recent arrival then there are hoardes of us who will leave.

What are your thoughts on this?

new seniority lists, balpa trying to do their best, managment on the defence - the joy of a takeover.

Glad I left:ok: . Enjoy the fun people!!!!!!!!!

What everyone is forgetting in all these arguments is the passenger. When deciding to fly we all have perceptions on the best value for money, and no matter how much money is thrown at BAConnect's advertising very few people believe it. Because it's tarnished by big BA's corporate image of quality, style etc - which doesn't work on short-haul. It had no chance of success with the two letters "BA" incorporated in the name.
The change to Flybe is the best thing to happen to BA Connect:
1. The alternative would have been closure - for certain
2. Other carriers would have then fought to pick up the scraps - very messy and no guarantee of employment
3.Flybe have guaranteed employment for all flight crew. How many other businesses that have gone through traumas like this have made such guarantees?
Most posts display a lot of arrogance and pomposity - a very poor reflection on a group of people that should show more intelligence!

Noiffsorbuts

We have been told very little of the fine detail of how this is going to happen. Flybe does use seniority for promotion and base transfers etc. We do not bid for routes or work though.

Although we got a letter in the mail + some posters and video in the crew rooms yesterday telling us about the purchase we have been given little more information than is available on the flybe or BA Website’s.

As others have said we are currently chronically short of Q400 crews especially captains, the E195 is however another story with our own 146 fleet in the process of being retired, and a similar number of 195’s on order, there are already a lot of people in the line for both RHS and LHS.

Could be good for both outfits, could be a total mess, only time will tell but so far the reaction i found in the crewroom yesterday seemed positive. The BAcon dash bods should feel right at home anyway as both the Flybe turboprop fleet manager and our new training manager are both ex BAcon.

Just to add t PJ2 posting; I'm sure we are going to see a big increase in the Captain Q400 salary as flybe is desperately short of suitable candidates to put in the LHS of the new aircraft. For some time our CC has been using the comparison of what BA Connect pays for a 50 seat 22 ton a/c as against our 78 seat 29 ton Q400. I believe they are finally seeing the light. Flying the Q400 isn't all doom and gloom, although it does land like a shopping trolly coming off a cliff, and it has a fair set of toys in a modern flightdeck. Just because the 'fan' is on the outside of the engine nacelle, and slower, oh, and doesn't fly as high and .......:sad:

The key willbe to have a positive attitude and call the glass half full. Face it, finally getting rid of our management, whether or not they danced to Waterside's tune is a huge step forward. I've lost track of how many times over the last ten years or so I've been told JE/BE/FlyBe would go bust, and quite the opposite always happened. We should be very chuffed that we are again part of a proper regional outfit - mind you, let's just all hope that our management stay with the EDI - LCY setup. Anyone any news?
Oh, and the other big question is the pension. I take it FlyBe's is different, and I rather think TUPE doesn't include pension provision. Anyone any comment?

I can't think of any company that discusses its disposition and acquisition plans before actually doing them (unless it is clear they plan to get rid of a unit).

Not saying anything about BACON probably was more about trying to find a willing buyer and deciding whether or not to continue with the operations versus the benefits/downsides of selling.

BACON has never been profitable (even before being rebranded). It was given 2 years to get profitable (stated publicly).

The writing was on the wall.

Will this whole thing mean that for Christmas I will get a pay cut and the chance to fly the Dash for several years? I have read the Q and A’s but they seem to lead me to believe that we will still be working for BA Connect Ltd. and our contracts will still be upheld. Could anyone shed some light on this subject?

Overall, it's gotta be good news. Job security and working beneath a commercial team who know their business.

The big issue over the coming months will be the integration of the two workforces, with seniority lists and terms and conditions being potential hot potatos.

There's gonna be a lot of hard work ahead for both company councils, probably more than they will be able to do without some serious resources from BALPA HQ.

Exciting and interesting times ahead methinks.

I truly hope it does not happen to you, see how you feel if it does...:\

I have a horrendous feeling about the seniority lists - if (no, don't laugh!!!) BACON had bought Flybe, would YOU give up your place on the list, and maybe your course or Emb 170 command to one of the new pilots? I doubt it. You'd say, with some justification that they should be grateful for a job.:{
Similarly the salaries etc. I believe we're paid more, quite a bit more. How can that possibly continue? Flybe not un-naturally will not want their new acquisition to lose money. It will be all change I think,but anything to escape the dead hand of BA.
What I really want is to be a fly on the wall of Hutchings / Deacon / Phelan's next interview.
They may just all be about to discover that it really DOES pay to be nice to people on the way up - 'cos you may meet them on the way down.....and OUT!:D

Ground Staff
 

Sorry to barge into this thread but just had to fight the corner of the ground staff in the regions. We have been told pretty much nothing about the sale, only that it has been agreed. I work in EDI and Bacon make up pretty much of 50% of our workload. All we have been told is that serviceair may take on bacon in EDI and that we will be TUPE'd accross, nothing more nothing less !!! Will they take us all ? dont know, what if we dont want to work for a handling agent ? dont know. Will there be severence/redundancy offered ? doubt it. Can we relocate/redeploy ? doubt it !! Thanks :mad: WW !!!

Nothing here about the TUPE either.....
 

FLYBE TO BECOME LARGEST REGIONAL AIRLINE IN EUROPE


Flybe announces that it has reached agreement in principle with British Airways whereby it will acquire British Airways’ BA Connect regional airline business, subject to a number of conditions precedent including the completion of due diligence.

The proposed acquisition will create an enlarged business with over £600m in revenues and carrying nearly 10 million passengers. The business will be operated in line with the successful Flybe business model concentrating on short haul domestic and European major city markets.



BA will ensure that the new business has sufficient funding in order to achieve its growth targets and the transition out of the current BA Connect fleet. In return it will acquire a 15% stake in the new business.

The acquisition (which does not include BA Connect’s London City or Manchester / JFK routes) will significantly increase Flybe’s route network both in the UK and continental Europe making Flybe Europe’s largest regional airline.



The new larger Flybe will have the following dimensions:
159 Routes, including 35 new routes
10 Million Passengers
£600m in revenues
Europes largest regional airline
Operating from 23 UK and 36 European airports
70 aircraft by the end of 2007
Whilst reinforcing Flybe’s domestic UK presence, the acquisition will also result in an increase in the proportion of Flybe’s business passengers with new routes to key European commercial centres including Paris, Düsseldorf, Frankfurt and Milan.

Flybe plans to accelerate its current fleet renewal programme and will phase out all of the existing BA Connect fleet as soon as possible. The current Flybe £1.2bn investment programme in Bombardier Q400 and Embraer 195 aircraft will be complete by 2009. At that time Flybe will have a fleet of 82 aircraft, which will be one of the youngest and most environmentally sensitive fleets in the world. In line with its environment policy Flybe will by then have reduced fuel consumption by over 50% per seat.

The acquisition comes as Flybe announces its strongest ever summer trading period, resulting in an operating profit of £20.5 million* for the six months to 30th September 2006, which compares to an operating profit of £12.4 million* in the same period on 2005.

This summer’s result follows a solid performance in the financial year 2005/2006 when the business delivered operating profits, before exceptionals, of £4.8 million whilst pursuing a focused strategy of major route expansion to position the business for long term profit growth. The decision was also taken to write down the asset value of its BAE 146 Aircraft which will be retired over the next 12 months by taking a £6.4 million exceptional charge.

With its strategic platform in place, and the business delivering the promised strong trading results, Flybe is well positioned to take the next step in its evolution, by purchasing BA Connect.

The Board of Flybe has taken the decision that, in the event of the successful acquisition of BA Connect, any change to the current ownership structure should be deferred, to allow for the management team time to focus fully on the integration of the enlarged business.

Commenting on the proposed acquisition, Jim French, Chairman and Chief Executive of Flybe, stated:

“Through this acquisition we are seeking to build a bigger, stronger and even more defensible Flybe.

The Flybe business model concentrates on domestic and European city markets and has been incredibly successful over the last 4 years. This acquisition will allow us to bring our growth plans forward by two years.

The new enlarged Flybe should provide strong employment prospects for operational staff in BA Connect. Once the acquisition is completed Flybe will seek to replace BA Connects existing fleet with the fuel-efficient and environmentally friendly Bombardier Q400 and Embraer 195.

Flybe is proudly headquartered in, and serves the UK regions. We believe this announcement today means that the UK regions will now have their own strong and well financed airline, designed to support the needs of the buoyant regions of the UK, in line with the Government White Paper of 2003.

This acquisition will make Flybe the largest regional airline in Europe and one of the largest in the UK by any measurement. Across Europe more consumers will benefit from Flybe’s efficient and friendly service at a price, which provides outstanding value.”

Cornflake, I think you are quite correct. The previous trauma, the BA acquisition of BRAL & Brymon, was a merger of two ostensibly similar companies and it was only right that a degree of equality was applied. The current situation is a takeover, the BACON girls and boys are the taken-over and are hardly in a position to dictate terms.:{

Well, as far as I can tell, the only thing of any value that Flybe gets out of this deal, is the aircrew.

If a deal isn't struck that suits people (and I don't mean every whim is pandered to) then I personally won't be coming!

There's more to life than BACon & Flybe. I don't really mind coming over to Flybe- but I'm not bending over so they can give me a good shafting!:eek:

There will be a heck of a lot of negotiating over the next few months. Pensions, TUPE, seniority, basing, commands, jet or TP etc. etc.

NOTHING is a done deal yet.

Of course there is also the intra-BACon question of who stays with the RJ's.
Quite apart from the issue of 'how desirable' this is. It may be that a very junior pilot on the RJ fleet gets to 'stay' with 'BACon' while a very senior ERJ-145 pilot has to leave for FLYbe. **** knows how this will be reconciled.

Jordan - living up to you're name (very shallow / big t*t).
As a matter of fact you clearly do not understand the costs associated with closure..it was never a financially realistic option BA had.
With regard for it being the best thing that has ever happened to BA Connect that is an "arrogant and pompus" statement.
Don't you dare assume that just because we wear a BA uniform (which is actually the cheapest bit of cloth I have ever put on) we have an attitude problem.Most of the 600 pilots are great boys and girls. If you have had a bad experience with one or two then you are either unfortunate or you deserve it.
If you have anything further on to say on the subject PM me and we will have a chat without the cloak of anonymity.

BF you are absolutely right. I am prepared to be open minded about all this but as to whether or not I go elsewhere (and there are plenty of jobs out there guys) will depend about the detail. From waht I can see Flybe are goingto have to take some major strides towards our Ts and Cs and a proper scheduling agreement (which is in everyone's interests) else I am going to sling my hook.

If I were Flybe management Id be going into charm overdrive to win our hearts and minds, cos we have had it up to our necks with bullying cretins and are not going to take it all over again.

As to the seniority thing, people are going to have to be pragmatic with give and take on both sides.

One thing is for certain and that is that Flybe boys and girls are going to benefit from the pressure to move their Ts and Cs ahead.

This could be win win or it could turn into a total fiasco....

Noifs

Yep. Flybe could turn out OK.

However I'm going to see about some 'insurance' just in case they fail to come up with something sensible.

The reason they are short of experienced people is because experienced people can choose where to work. And for most of them that DOES NOT mean Flybe!

Believe me, this deal is a LONG way from 'done'.

Now, where's my CV?:ok:

Hello Noifsorbuts,

I agree with you.

There is no reason why BACON pilots or Flybe pilots should be had-over during this merger/takeover. What Flybe pilots would certainly fight over would be a list that stops the prospect of progression onto the 195 or RH seat of the Q400 due to shouts of "we already have jet experience".
I am sure that, with thoughtful management of the merger, these issues can be addressed fairly. We see.........

FB

Dream on
 

Sorry, man but dream on.:{ This is no merger it's a takeover. FlyBe are in charge and they'll look after their own first. They'll want to make shure the newco keeps the flyBe not the BA culture so guys, sorry, but don't dream of equal treatment. :uhoh: They'll use you if they need you and you toe the line. Fail on either and it's out.. :sad: Thats L:ife -to the victor the spoils and all that..

Any ideas who will crew the MAN - JFK route?

The two rumours are WWLHR or Single fleet LGW taking a 777.

I've been a Barbie Boy for a number of years, and I've very much enjoyed flying in the Barbie World. I'm expecting, and will put up with, a certain degree of loss of conditions, etc following this takeover. However, there is a point at which I will simply hand back my (still in mint condition) uniform and I.D. and go and do something else. I won't be bending over for anyone.

My thoughts go out to the boys and girls around the BA Connect network who will inevitably have their lives and careers mucked around with.

Someone asked about pensions. At flybe the Co pays 12% against 4% from the employee. Co contribution starts at 4% then 8% and to 12% after 3 years. Couldn't say what would happen with the ex-BRAL (?) FS scheme.

On salaries our T/P (Q400) scales are higher than BACON's as are our 146 scales v 145. The contentious bit is Q400v145 and I think that is going to be addressed very shortly.

Lets face it T and C's are going to be the criticial issue here. No BACON jet pilot who ends up flying a FlyBe trash 8 is going to accept your companies turbo prop salaries. Its just too big a backward step.

Many people stayed with CitiExpress/BACON purely for the final salary pension scheme. Now that has disappeared the floodgates will open once again.

After all, why work your nuts off for what FlyBe offer when you can got to easyJet, work the same amount on a real aircraft and earn shed loads more money?

I suspect that the number of BACON jet pilots who transfer to FlyBe will be much lower than they were hoping for.

Just a bit of general stuff for all those concerned.

Latest rumour heard today - Q400 salary will be 90% of jet salary, obviously subject to a ballot in the latest pay deal, yes the one that has been ongoing for 9 months! And as of next year will be the same as jet salary.

I stress that this is a rumour but following on from the CEO's letter last week concerning retention of Q400 crew may hold a bit of water.

The Q400 isn't a bad ship, all the toys up the front, bags of performance, fun and challenging to fly. I don't miss the 146 at all.

The feeling from the flight deck concerning seniority, and this is just a general sweep, is that BAcon crew should join at the bottom. I think this is understandable as there are guys who've done their time in the RHS and/or Q400 and are ready for a command or fleet change and they don't want this taken away from them. However, I heard today that a possibility is to merge the seniority of both lists using DOJ.

This is all pretty much hearsay and I'll leave you to work out if there's any truth in it, I don't know either way, just passing on what I've heard.

Good luck to all concerned.

Fred,

"Sorry, man but dream on. This is no merger it's a takeover. FlyBe are in charge and they'll look after their own first. "

Yea, that's what we thought at Manx when we tookover Loganair, ...........unfortunately we were wrong too.

Cornflake : Well said comment about being nice to people on the way up, but you'll find that these senior guys will have had a back door into mainline agreed a while back. They'll disappear into the woodwork.