Leo Hairy-Camel
thank you very much for informations i am looking for.
5/4/5/4 sound fantastic to me and for days a year for a sim and anotherone for medical is peanuts.In my company at the moment i get average 15-20 phonecalls a month with rosterchanges, more legs, earlier duties up to 5 legs plus 1 deadhead.
The only thing i would like to know is about holiday, they told us in Cologne at the Roadshow 29 days a year.Does this really mean I can request them when i like them, or is the company all or half of them assigning them to me, or are they included in these 4 offdays throughout the year.? When i ask for 5 days holidays, will the 4 offdays before and after stay.
Sorry I am asking a lot,but......
Thanks for info
TA:) :) :)

Thin Albert,

A quick prediction....

As an answer to your question would involve Leo saying something negative about RYR, he won't reply!!!

NSF

You do talk sh1t. You can't have been at easy long-post 2003 I'll guess.

Can you supply me, and everyone else, the number of pilots that have left easy to join Ryan AND then come back gain.

Go on, have ago, answer the question.

Thin Albert, Ryanair is not a bad place to work, however dont be fooled by this so called 5/4. Sounds good in name, however are you not suspicious considering the overwhelming majority of the pilots working in he company rejected this deal??

Up to 12 of you 29 days leave is allocated during the yr to facilitate the 5/4 pattern, if memory serves me right. So in truth you are getting approximately 17 days leave which you can apply for freely but getting them granted is another matter. Also from Jan-Mar, the company may at its own will revert the roster to 5/3 or even 5/2 if required. Then you have the recurrent sims on your off days, which is another four days per yr at least. Basically its still a 5/3 pattern with reduced flexibility with regard leave. Also if for some reason such as illness you miss a few days work, the company can change your roster to 5/2 to catch up on your lost hours.

Manfred.

Nice Touch - Maybe someone trod on your hamster when you were six and you have never been able to form normal relationships since then - or at least that is what your social worker told the Judge. Next time you want someone to reply to you, try and learn some manners. You'll find it works wonders.

Leo - a pleasure to hear from you. Your posts are always magnificently written and a joy to read. What makes them even more enjoyable is that they are also some of the most consistent posts on PPrune - they are consistently wrong on virtually every issue. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. The dismal T&G foolishly announced there was going to be industrial action among our cabin crew but had neglected to ballot them first. I have asked countless cabin crew if they are going to vote against the pay deal and I have not found a single one who will. At a recent SEP day I attended (inside my 5/2/5/4 roster pattern!), with about 20 cabin crew from different bases, every single one said they were hacked off at the T&G's statement and said they would vote 'Yes' when the time comes. The 'Orange Trolley Dollies' are therefore unlikely to provide you with a Summer of discontent. Not least of all, they are now the highest paid cabin crew that I know of in the UK other than BA crew on the 'old' deal.

Regarding profits, easyJet has always made a loss in the Winter and and a profit in the Summer. This year is no exception and nor will the next be or the year after. Every year without fail since easyJet started they have made an overall annual profit and I fully expect that trend to continue. The word is that this year will bring the largest ever profit in our history - boring facts I know but that is the way it is.

Rostering is a tricky one and I think that there is going to be a battle over this at easyJet. Reading the frankly embarrassing article about fatigue reduction in this week's Flight International could have led the uninitiated to believe that easyJet and Ryanair are benevolent philanthropists, who want nothing more than to brighten up their pilots' lives. Nothing could be further from the truth and our 5/2/5/4 pattern should only be considered as a starting point for negotiation. We are in the fortunate position of being increasingly unionised and therefore able to take part in the fight ahead. Alas, nogotiation does not seem to form a significant part of Ryanair management's skill set and being without a collective voice all new Ryanair pilots will just have to lie back and think of Ireland.

Stan Woolley - Is someone's opinion on the situations in Rwanda or Afghanistan invalid because they have never been there? No - the key is to research the situation carefully before reaching a judgement. Similarly, is someone's opinion about Ryanair invalid because they have not worked there? No, because there is the possiblity of gathering information from friends and colleagues who have worked there (and some who still do) plus researching a huge range of written material on the company. I note from some of your previous posts that you are extremely sensitive to any criticism of Ryanair from easyJet pilots - inevitably having left us in the huff only to find you have jumped out of the frying pan into a roasting hot fire must be a disappointment. You have my sympathies.

My honest take on this is that in the past Ryanair was better paid and actually quite a good place to work - if you could cope with 'The O'Leary Factor'. Also, in the past easyJet was non-unionised and full of promises that were never kept. Many people came to hate it and accordingly left. I think it is good for us all to recognise that most companies are pretty fluid and what was true yesterday is not necessarily true today. The easyJet Stan Woolley left is not the one I recognise today, and I work at supposedly the hardest base with the most difficult 'hassle' factors. Is all perfect at easyJet? Absolutely not! The good news, however, is that with the advent of unionisation we can see a way to a brighter future. Our new pay deal does, I believe, put us for the first time slightly ahead of Ryanair. The real issue is rostering and I can see a way to expect significant changes in the future. Without a strong collective-bargaining position we would be nowhere today. Union representation has brought us to a place where the battle can be fought out without fear and intimidation. It seems to me that there is a relentless drive at Ryanair to drive the terms and conditions of new pilots in particular. EasyJet do not have the modern equivalent of the Cadbury family at the helm, desparately trying to improve their eimployees' miserable lives. The difference between us and Ryanair is that for the first time our managers have had to stand up and take notice of the nearly 80% of pilots who have joined BALPA to fight for a better future. The pilots at Ryanair are being consitently stuffed by their employers and are facing a relentless spiral of their terms and conditions. The 5/4 rostering deal is clearly not an improvement and hence the reason all the pilots at Ryanair voted against it. Nonetheless it is coming in anyway among new joiners simply because there is no collective voice to prevent it. Our ludicrous TRSS scheme was brought in after Sep 11 and was unilaterally imposed by our managers on a largely disunited and apathetic workforce - I do not believe such a change could occur now. It is glaringly apparent that the principle difference between us is that we have become organised and Ryanair has not - consequently we are on the up and up in terms of being an employer to work for and you are on a steady decline. That is not to insult you in any way but to recognise the harsh reality of what we are both up against. If you corporately do not act and join together the future can only be negative.

I therefore stand by my previous statements and still wonder why any pilot with a choice would choose to work for such an unscrupulous employer. To the likes of Thin Albert I would say, are all these people on PPrune who work for Ryanair and claim their contracts were just changed at a whim all liars? Reading the excellent posts from people like essex boy must surely cast a doubt in the mind of even the most determined Lemming. Ultimately, if you are absolutely determined to jump over the side of a cliff, then all the wise words in the world will not stop you.....

By the way, please do not think me rude if I do not participate too much further in this debate. The World Cup calls and I have some serious TV watching to do!

Leo's version is best, three cheers for Leo, Long live Leo
 

Thin Albert, our friend Leo is thinking about people like me. What he does not mention is that people like me are happy to accept the good things about Ryanair - and not to deny them for propaganda purposes, or to mislead.

But even more to the point, he does not mention that the same does not apply to him. You will find NO criticism of Ryanair in any of the many posts by Leo. You will NEVER finding him answering direct questions that might be inconvenient to himself or Ryanair. You will also find he constantly makes references implying that he is a full-time Ryanair captain. He is not a full-time captain. In fact he is a contractor who receives a much better package than most Ryanair pilots; he also enjoys the favour of management, to whom he has privileged access.

Leo is thus the last possible source of objective information about Ryanair. He does not care, for example, for the ripped-off Second Officers - of whom there currently are quite a number discovering what they expected from Ryanair ads is completely different from what they got in practice. He just does not discuss issues such as this, because they are inconvenient to his role as an apologist and propagandist for Ryanair.

Re-read his post in the light of what I have to say. Does it not ooze Ryanair ideology and assurances, but little else?

interesting quotes from bonderman here.has it peaked?

http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs....53/1002/NEWS01

NSF

Sensitive about Easyjet you're damn right I am - they went a long way towards losing me my health and have done the same to many others so please spare me the pontification about company morality and all that other sh1te!

BTW I came to Ryanair from a B767 job and have no regrets so far so spare your sympathy for someone who needs it!

Maybe you should apply for a management job at easy, I think it'd suit you nicely.

Bit weird, with respect to the holiday.
My contract does have it in writing that the 29 days are mine and mine alone to choose what to do with.
However some of the 4 off days may be used for other training, without effecting my holiday entitlement.

Hope that makes sense.
Effectively 5 on 4 off with 29 days leave you have 1/2 the year off. they are taking 4 or more of those rostered off days to cover Recurrent training not supposedly time from your own Annual Leave entitelment.

Quick respond those of you with, you idiot you actuallty believe your contract :)
Ryanair is not a bad place to work, if you dont go in expecting great things in the first place.

T668BFJ I think it does, but some of you post is not entirely clear. The bottom line for me is that you don't seem to have read the small print on the Ryanair contract about the 5-4. As I read it you have got your "entitlement" wrong - and your statement suggests that Ryanair will honour either your "contract" or your "entitlements" in circumstances where it suits them to ignore one or both. History suggests - strongly - that any such assumption would be unwise.

True enough and I suppose that is one interpratation of the way it reads.
True to form we can guarantee that RYR will interprate the best wayfor them not us.

RYANAIR in Supreme Court today
 

Ryanair are in the Irish Supreme Court this morning in a case labelled Ryanair v. Labour Court and ors.

Anyone know what the case is about?
:confused: :confused:

Ryanair Captains soon to be on £15,000 per month.
 

Yes and we are getting B777 as well. But the one about Elvis working as a baggage handler in Dublin isn't true.

And when does the court ruling come out??????

The RYR propaganda machine must try harder.

Some captains just dont come back to earth from Cloud NINE! :{

Aussie

Merceneries
 

For some time short term moonlighters have been paid €1000 per day by a contract agency to fly for a well known low cost carrier.

Yes for 22 days a month that would equate to €22,000 or £14,960 per month however few work morw than a week or two at that rate.

To suggest a fixed term contract is available for example at £90k for 6 months is folly.

Slight incorrect wording in the initial post.ryanair will pay CERTAIN pilots £15,000 IN one month.That is when the courts will deem ryanair to have broken the law by forcing existing pilot employees to pay £15,000 for their retraining onto the 737-800 from the 737-200,because they would not take what the bully boys in management were trying to foist upon them.
Not a hand out for all,just those who had the balls to stand up to mick the maggot.

It is the last part of a hearing by the Supreme Court of an action by Ryanair - which is trying to escape from a very inconvenient Labour Court finding. Ryanair have lost everything up to this point (and most observers think they will lose this one too). Ryanair know they are lost if their pilots make it to a full hearing in the Labour Court so they are trying every possible manoeuvre to avoid or delay a hearing. The case is being fought by IALPA (technically they are doing so on behalf of the Labour Court).

Ryanair contract pilots
 

Hello, About Ryanair f/o contract!
Before applying to Ryanair as an experience 737 f/o .
Is it a good option to apply to Fr as a contract pilot via a broker?
As a contract pilot:
1st . Is there any chance to get the base that you want ( instead of being base at STN) ?
2nd Can you be in the fast track command scheme?
I did many search in these forums but couldn’t find no answer to my questions.
Thanks

Contact Brookfield Aviation regarding being a conract F/O. I don't think they are part of the fast track program. As far as I know, that's with FR only.

Eole, in my opinion Brookefield contract pilots are better off, specially after their new agreement. The main problem is that you don´t have a basic salary and that can be a problem if you go sick, although you can solve the issue with a nice insurance. If I had the choice I would go for it. Just bare in mind that in case of command upgrade, they will probably force you into a ryanair contract.

My son is a Ryanair contractor and as a Capt. he gets EURO 125 per scheduled block hour. He came through from being a Brookfield FO to a Capt with Ryanair 18 months ago. He works 850 plus hours a year for them and I helped him fill in his tax return and he made approx EURO 104,000 gross in 2005.
They have given him a base in Stansted which suits him. He has been offered a base in Dublin, Rome and Bergamo over the last month. He has to pay 4.50 per hour deduction which includes his SIM and other items.
I loaned him half the money for his type rating and we are very proud of him and the way he paid us and the bank back over the last 3 years.
My son's best friend finished his Type rating last week in CAE and is being base trained by Ryanair in East Midlands on next Thursday. His folks are travelling over for the event. A big day for proud parents!
He plans to go and work for Ryanair on a Brookfield contract. He has high Jar25 hours so will get EURO 65 per scheduled hour while an FO. He will be in Dublin - so his folks keep an eye on him while he pays back his loans!
They both seem to enjoy Ryanair so far and the older one says things are improving day by day. I know this will invite flames from some other PPruners but I can only share one families experience.
I have two other children who I paid for their College education. This cost almost as much as helping the lad with the Type Rating. The pilot son is earning far more than the two college kids ever will. My wife and I saw it as a good investment.

Ryanair
 

thebrother,
Congratulations - it's nice to see a father proud of their children's achievements.
It's a good income for a presumably relatively young chap. The problem is your son may come to feel that it's not sunstainable as Ryanair at present is not a career airline.
- The days are very long and exhausting (12 hours of flight duty off a 0430am start and 4 sectors 5 days in a row)
- It's very hard to get leave when you want (need) it
- You fly 900 hours in 9-10 months (so no income for 2-3 months on contract)
- No pension
- Hideous, bullying management
- Cabin crew are down-trodden and generally unhappy - v. high turnove
- Cadet S/Os struggling to survive for the first year or so
While I was at Ryanair I rarely met anyone who'd been with them for more than 2 years - they just burn you out.
It's only worth going contract if you don't pay taxes - otherwise UK perm is the highest paying option.
IMHO, better to get onto a seniority list with an airline you're happy to be with for the long term and not be seduced by the short-term higher wage packet.
Just my take on it, all the best.

Ryanair TRE pay
 

Please can someone tell what a UK based Ryanair TRE could expect to get as 'take home' pay per month.

Also do TRE's work the 5 on, 4 off and how is that going.

Does the Company pay motor mileage from base to the Sim and if so at what rate.

Any other relevant info much appreciated.

You would probably be better of contacting RYR directly, or Brookfield Aviation, if you are contemplating a contract postion.

Not interested in contract work - Rynair are advertsing for DE TRE's on their website which is why I posed my question above

thebrother

I am delighted for your situation with your son and no, I will not pour cold water on your delight.

I will say though for every story like yours there are many many more negative ones.
As for the 'good investment', it probably costs €110,000 euro plus (just guessing) to get into the right hand seat with RYR.

Recent new f/o's are being made take a contract position and it works out at about €35,000 p.a. with no pension, no health insurance, no uniform provided, no loss of liscence, no pay whatsoever if out sick. Absolutely NOTHING else. FACT.
Hardly a good investment.

I am sorry but I will not be contradicted on a point, taking a job with RYR as an f/o is not a good financial investment. If we do it for the love of flying that is something different. An investment, NO.

Six months and you'll be a Base Trainer.

12 months and he'll be Chief Executive at this rate.

You can tell that from the quite remarkably different experience your relatives seem to have from that of other Ryanair pilots, especially the Second Officers, I have been speaking to. In fact the difference is quite remarkable. Well done family <brother>!

the brother;

Looking at the market, i.e. a massive shortage of captains,and other comparable airline salaries, how can you be satisfied with gross 104,000 euros? No pension, no sick pay, no holidays, no guarantee of work, no fringe benefits at all? Sweat shop slave labour in the wider market place.

Captjns, Cipri, Thebrother,
Thank you for your answer, It’s help me a lot to make my choices.
So according to what I read on many threads, despite that you have no basics salary, contractors get a much better salary than pilots on Fr contracts.
Thanks again for all your advice

Ryanair Assessment Day
 

Hi Guys and Gals,

Just been invited to the Ryanair assessment day at East Mids, can anyone tell me what to expect, what the day consists of, do I need to brush up on any JAR subjects etc......Much appreciated (1000hrs Q400 currently employed as FO with Flybe)!!!!

Thanks in advance

endofeng:)

ps looking for LPL as base, anyone think this will be achievable?

Do a search...
About LPL base - Yes, absolutely achievable. Lots of contractors being sent there due to vacancies

Visit www.repaweb.org

re: Visit www.repaweb.org

Isn't that site just for existing pilots of ryanair, not pilots trying to join??????

Correct,but you could look up a "guide for prospective ryanair pilots" on pprune somewhere.which i believe is derived from repaweb and a very enlightening read.good luck.don't forget your checkbook.

ryr assessement
 

endofeng hello, 28 06 2006

basically 3 things: -sim ride b737-200
-technical questions
-motivation interview with hr person

about sim ride: every needed info is written on the wallboard in the briefingroom. you have about 20min's to absorb this info & the problem then consists in reproducing this in the sim. if your basic flyingskills are ok there shouldn't be a problem. previous b737-200 experience is a +, but don't be afraid if you have none, as the sim instructor takes this into account.

about tech questions: if you are type rated, some not too difficult general things about systems & limitations. otherwise some general aeronautical stuff,
like: being shown a vor/dme approachplate of dublin: how do you fly a non precision approach?

about motivation interview: you will be asked why do you want to join ryanair?

within two days you will be notified yes or no.
finding the sim building is the first hurdle when you arrive at ema.

One way to think of the Ryanair "assessment" is that it is far from being the same as an "assessment" in other organisations. If you keep your wits about you it can be seen that hopes and expectations play an important role - the role that is played by a thing called "an employment contract" in most airlines.

The Ryanair assessment is part of a recruitment / business process which leads to you paying for a type-rating in the hope / expectation of a job. When you pay for that type-rating your money is gone - pass or fail. Also type-ratings are not provided by the airline, but by training intermediaries. You certainly will not be given a contact guaranteeing you employment. Assessment and providing type-rating to prospective pilot employees is not necessarily linked to employment in Ryanair.

Note that the sim type-rating check ride may not take place until a few weeks or - frequently - many months after you completed the simulator training for the rating. During that period you will be unpaid, but will be expected to turn up as and when required, pay for your hotel, etc. Being upaid continues until after your line training is almost finished.

All of this time - which many pilots report as taking well over a year - YOU fork out money, not them. When you get to see a contract and an employment reality that does not quite measure up to what you expected from the stories you heard. You also learn the bitter reality that you cannot do anything about the hole you find yourself in. Most find it easier to believe the stories about rapid promotion being the way to recover their financial situation.

When you go to EMA for your assessment try to find people who are well into this game and hear what they have to say. In particular try to find out just how many people have paid for a rating and are "awaiting line training" (there are a LOT). You can then do a bit of "assessing" for yourself.

What I can tell you is that there is no shortage of people prepared to sign up for this nonsense - which will help you self-justify doing exactly the same thing. Just pray that you don't become one of the losers in this little game - and there are most definitely are losers.

Remember that none of this is being done to help you get into aviation - Ryanair is exactly the opposite of helpful and philanthropic. Take a very hard look at what is on offer .... what is certain and what is unclear.

Atse - the backlog in training has largely been cleared and pilots are no longer experiencing delays in line training or getting a check ride.

Also new pilots are paid from the first day of training, so even if there is a delay it is not "unpaid" as you state.

Finally the employment contract is signed by both parties before type rating training commences, so you're statement "You certainly will not be given a contact guaranteeing you employment. Assessment and providing type-rating to prospective pilot employees is not necessarily linked to employment in Ryanair" is completely false.

You're entitled to your opinion but please get your facts right.