bmi pilots to call crewing at end of every duty day
 

As from july 25th bmi pilots have to call crewing at the end of every duty day to accept changes to their roster - why ?

Management say, it is to avoid roster disruption - what a load of b******s

bmi have approx 20 or so aircraft, single fleet operation, a small route network, how many changes can one expect !!

I say, it is to give crewing maximum flexibility to shaft you wherever possible !

any thoughts gents, particulary from bmi pilots

Don't know what's so strange about having to ring crewing. Until we received a computer based "check-in, check-out" system BRAL, and more recently BACX pilots and cc had to manually check-out with a phonecall at the end of each duty

Seems like an industry norm to me.

Standard practice at my place. Saves them having to call us during the 'contactable period'.

No standard practice at my place.

Why to call them?
They know where we are, for sure!

regards

Do you really believe that is the kind of person that is in your crewing department. Possibly an idea is to go in and work in their office for a day and see if that is the truth.

Max Magic

What does your scheduling agreement say about crews accepting roster changes?

ecj

In our joint we also call in after work is done to see if there are any changes in our schedules. We're actually quite happy to do so that we won't have any midnight calls telling us that we have to show up. Then again; no union here, no scheduling agreements.

Dont see what the problem is. If you have a stable roster agreement whats to be scared of. If you have a sby thats been converted to another duty, surely its in your favour.

I'm with the chap who said to spend a day in crewing, you may not find the portrait of yourself on the walls being used as a dart board, and be pleasantly surprised.

standard at my place of work as well.


then again, isnt one suppose to receive 24 hours notice before change of a duty?:confused: :E

i don't see why you should be moaning, this is perferctly normal in my company and many others

Cabin crew have been doing it for a while, now. Works for them, so, naturally, it'll work for the guys up front, as well.
It covers their ass and crewings, so, in theory, no one slips thru' the net !

It certainly gives greater potential.

But what all this "rostering at minimum notice" really does is to allow minimum staffing levels, saving on cost. The penalty is chaos for all (yes, including "poor old" Crewing), the result of which is ruination of aircrew lives/friendships/marriages/sleep patterns/health.

Since only aircrew are affected, not profits or schedules, then it'll persist until aircrew stand up for themselves.

Seems, from the general consensus here, that aircrew regard the ruination of their lives as "perfectly normal", so you've only got yourselves to blame!

Some of you even seem proud of the disruption you put up with! One born every minute (luckily, for the likes of bmi) :rolleyes:

@acbus1
 

I fully agree.

regards

Acbus1,
I cannot see why ringing crewing makes roster disruption any different. If they want to change your roster they will . What it does mean that is that the proper recipient of the change does not slip the net, which would then cause a lot of disruption the next day with even shorter notice changes.

Your logic is sound in the very short term.

If you think a little further and consider the situation as a feedback loop, you come to a different final conclusion........

What this extra tie to Crewing (phoning after end of days work) means is that Crewing can achieve with even more certainty scheduled departures with aircrew numbers cut to the bone.

Greater certainty, in turn, permits even fewer aircrew, saving even more cost.

Saving even more cost = even more lovelee monee in certain people's pockets (and I don't mean the aircrew's, Crewing, Operations or any of the other mugs who seem happy to have their lives ruined).



Lack of certainty in Crewing (someone "slipping the net" as you put it) requires higher aircrew staffing levels in order to provide the necessary buffer. The person who has "slipped the net" has, thereby, secured less disruption and a better life.


OK?

Totally spot on ac bus1 :ok:

Gents,

If any of you have had to put up with constant roster disruption for 6 years, believe me - you WOULD feel the same way.

more views from bmi pilots please

It means you can call them when it suits you rather than being called at all the wrong moments, also saves Ops so much time because even in the time of mobikle phones it is hard to find some people....

Simply write 'Crewing called but engaged on the Flight Report' - At least you tried <g>

Ironically, the idea of pilots calling in at the end of each day's duty actually came from BALPA! :\

Not having a chip at anybody but pilots can be the first to complain 'what are you doing calling me during my rest period or on my day off?'.
OK, sh1t will still happen but at least it will help your rest time to be exactly that, time away from work and not worrying about work.
The regulations stipulate that you need the minimum required rest period, let us say 12 hours, before commencing a duty thus that is the notice period required.
Please bear in mind that the crewing bod does not have satellite navigation as to when you might be in the crew room, he or she is just trying to earn a salary the same as you are so why not just work together?
What's the problem?

One would think that in this age of technology, the phone would be the last thing to use when checking in with crewing ! How come more airlines don't use simple "swipe in swipe out" systems so that operational changes can be seen on the screen? For example, once signed in at the end of a duty will show the crew off duty time and any changes collected. Thought BMi had this anyway ??

Welcome to the world of China Airlines. We have to that or be fined if if don't. This airine has a one day standby per month per pilot system ( not paid for) so any disruption or sickness, you work out the math.
Good luck Calsar

What are the flight deck afraid of?
Roster disruption has to be expected because of the circumstances that we find ourselves in. It's not an ideal world
and there are not thousands of available crew to slot into place everytime someone goes sick/ aircraft goes tech etc etc.
This has to be better than being called at all hours in your own time.
And for those that really still do think that crewing have it in for you and have nowt better to do than "shaft you", then I really believe that you are in the wrong profession.
:mad:

abcus1
 

We can't in this day and age have it always, i agree that stable rosters are very important, i don't mind roster changes that switch me from one route to another, these sometimes can mean an earlier finish than planned, sadly more often not, but that goes with the turf.

I do object to turning up, expecting to be home tonight only to find that i wont be.

By and large most crewing staff know the Awkward squad and tend to be ok with them that are ok with crewing.

I really can't see why any one should object to checking out with crewing,roster disruption is another matter and should be tackled as such.

Airlines are well behind many companies in technology terms i have friends who following days work is on the laptop when they get home.

Burt

I see it became BALPA's fault rather quicker than normal. It will be their fault when my Granny falls down the stairs next Christmas as well - just to let you know in advance. Perhaps you can tell us where that little gem came from.

Most pilots accept the fact that the company need to be able to contact them to make sure the program is covered - some don't. Unfortunately because the management of the problem is so poor they can't deal with the few who cause the problems for the many. The same people who did not call crewing in the past will not call crewing in the future either - no matter what the edict is from the company. - it won't make one jot of difference. Infact it is going to make it worse to start with. For many the easy way out will be to block window their entire roster - more so than before.

I have to do it in easyJet using the computer at the end of every shift. I don't get many roster changes but resent having to do it.

All those that bleat on about "in this day and age" etc. More fool you for being taken for a ride by your employer.

BA rosters are set in stone, AFAIK they don't have to call crewing at the end of their duty. They can be "Forced Draft" but only if crewing can get hold of them!

That is the key. If you didn't have to check out at the end of every shift crewing would have to get hold of you to notify you of a change. Simple solution - mobile switched off until next rostered duty.

If you want your employer to control your life so be it - I don't and can sympathise with the original poster.

Don't forget BA can generate £400m profit and still run this system. Your employers must be laughing all the way to the bank with their lower crewing costs :{

This WILL lead to more disruption. This WILL lead to a further lowering of morale. This WILL lead to bmi losing even more people. This WILL lead to increased training costs. They may think they can save money in one area but all they do is to shift it elsewhere.

What would they do if nobody rang in? Trouble is there's always those that will. Those too mouse like to stand up for themselves. The company is full of them which is why they get away with what they do.

When I joined this company it was expanding and prospering. A really good place to work. Now it's contracting and floundering and is a dreadful place to work. yes I will be voting with my feet just as soon as something else comes along. A view shared by many.

Just think, all those extra phone calls to ops at the end of shift will also use a lot more electricity, increasing carbon emissions, adding to global warming and eventually, BMI will be responsible for the end of the world!:hmm:

Get a grip, it's a 30 second phone call to say we're all home, A/C servicable and are there any changes.

How often when you phone ARE there actually any changes?

My company runs the same system and usually the only changes are when we're on standby the next day and the company knows we're needed. I'd rather know then than get a phone call at 6am.

My company rostering system is far from perfect and succeeds in driving most of the crew mental but a simple phone call to ops at the end of shift is far from being the root of the problem.

Of course the programme needs to be covered, but that's managements problem, not yours. If needs be, they should recruit more pilots, not screw around the ones they have.

The solution to calls on day off is very simple, buy a pay-as-you-go phone, give that number, and that number only, to work and only switch-on on standby days. Problem solved.

Persumably bmi will reimburse all these calls from personal mobiles...

bmi crewing is an 0800 number so in theory provided you use a landline or happen to have a mobile tariff that allows 0800/0500 calls there will be no cost to reimburse!

And im sure im right in saying all bmi captains have company mobiles !

This really is no different to calling the same 0800 number prior to leaving home when operating a bmi charter or bmi baby flight to ensure report time hasnt been delayed .....

Sorry but cant see any reason for the objections or is that those from the pointy end resent being told what to do .....

Come on people is a 30 second free call really such a big deal ?:*

Yes, it can be a big deal. If you're on a 0500 standby the next day then that gives you a report of up to 0700 if you're called at the start of duty. If you call in the night before then you can be 'got' for a duty reporting after your minimum rest which in all probability will be a damn sight earlier than 0700. Not only can that spoil your evening but your morning too! That to me is a definite reduction in lifestyle!

Why also do they always always always roster you to start on an early shift after leave? I always request a late start to recuperate after leave as it's generally a long haul break I've taken. I've never in the last 5 years started back on a late. Why? Because they want every last drop out of you they can, that's why! The downward trend of lifestyle and benefits continues. At least I have a couple of glimmers of light at the end of the tunnel.

Where are all the changes NT promised? Nowhere. It was nothing more than the usual hot air and empty promises we've come to expect.

Jetset, you're right about the decline of bmi mainline and that more pilots will leave. That appears to be exactly what the company wants. The company have been transferring work to the lower cost/higher productivity parts of the business for several years.

Look what happened at EMA -now just a baby and regional base. The embraers have all but taken over domestic routes from LHR at the weekends - despite the scope clause. The new baby product starts from LHR next month - how long before it's flown by baby pilots?

The dilution of your terms and conditions is bad news for us all. Until the three balpa CCs start working together, the company will continue to exploit our differences at your expense. This would never be allowed to happen at BA. What is it that makes their CC so much stronger? Higher balpa membership?

Jetset,
Sorry I may have the wrong end of the stick here, but I believe the thread is about ringing crewing just before the END of a duty. Whether you ring crewing or they get you in the crew room you are still on duty and liable to roster changes.

Under the current system with names on the board to ring crewing the call often is not answered.It is not just 30 seconds at the end of a duty.At times it can take numerous calls and some 20 minutes to get an answer.I have even had the phone picked up and immediately hung up on me. If this is going to go through then how about some give and take like under no circumstances unless on a standby,contactable or you have rung in offering to sell do they ring you at home?

One step beyond
With an attitude like that, I sincerely hope you forget to switch on your phone on the standby during which you are required and that the consequences to you are severe.

If the BMI pilots really are up in arms about checking in with crewing at the end of a duty then they do not have long to go.

I suspect that the objection is only from the usual few promising hysterics.

acbus 1/ jetset

Do you fully understand the causes of roster disruption?

Do you have any idea of the workload HAVING to disrupt rosters causes crewing?

Do you have any appreciation of how roster disruption impacts on the company as well as the individual?

Do you believe that bmi management really wants roster disruption?

Do you have any interest in answering these questions?

acbus 1, you constantly posts remarks that suggest the answer to all the above would be: NO.

For people with an attitude like yours, it doesn't matter what decisions the company makes, you only have the ability to see it through your own bitterness.

ACBUS1

Nice to see that your still as bitter and anti bmi as ever .

Having taken the time to review your postings it seems to date you have yet to post anything other than anti bmi vitriolic diatribe.

Maybe you should take some time to consider that your bitterness could be better channeled .

Please consider that your hidden agenda does nothing for your credibility within the Pilot community.

Once again you use pprune as a vehicle for your anti bmi feelings.

Had your posting have been made by any other forum user it would have had had credibility, sadly your previous postings have ensured that it is only viewed as the vitriolic rants of a bitter person.

Airbus

Your post sums up why the only people qualified to comment on this thread are bmi pilots. You clearly work in a completely different environment. I suspect the only thing we have in common is flying aeroplanes. The company have dictated that you have to call in even if you are on days off the next day!. Yes - nothing to do with being on standby. bmi pilots don't just get called off standbys which is a fair cop, they are subjected to all sorts of roster changes at the last minute from lates to earlies from not nightstopping to nightstopping. This is all about sticking plasters rather than sorting our the real problems. Millions of pounds have been spent trying to sort out these problems over the last few years and the pilots have been promised time and time again that the problem will be sorted. Rather than being sorted we are all taking a step backwards -who is accountable for that!

Don't compare what happens in your company to what happens in any other company.