Ryanair hires FAA/ US B737 Captains via Brooksfield
 

Well it speaks for itself.......

Ryanair is getting desperate as it seems. How they arrange work permits for US pilots is a complete mystery to me?


From the job section of FI.

737 Captains to fly in Europe
Miami Sim assessments/interviews


Quote: We already have a number of pilots booked into the simulator in Miami to be assessed and interviewed to join us to work in bases in Europe for Europe's largest and most succesfull low cost carrier.We still do however require a few more Captains current within the last 5 years on the 737 EFIS or N/G. Those Captains with experience only on the EFIS models of the 737 will benefit from moving on to the NG at no cost to themselves. Other very experienced Captains with time on other heavy jet aircraft will be offered the opportunity to take a self financed type rating courrse to fly the NG. All contracts offered are for a 5 year duration, and this opportunity offers the rare chance for Captains on this side of the Atlantic to fly and live in Europe. FAA licences are acceptable for initial validation and all pilots will need to work toward gaining their JAR licence which can be succesfully achieved within 6-9 months. Work permits can be granted and advise given on achieving this. We are looking for a large number of Captains at this stage - please note those who have already replied will be on the schedule and will be informed within the next 48 hours.:confused: :confused:

well, well,well, can MOL really bend the rules that much?

Thought you couldn't fly a JAA registered airplane without the correct licence. This implies that the IAA are rather spineless.

I know of guys who have applied to Ryanair, withn the correct ratings and not heard a dickie bird.

Can I go fly in the US please?

Why are you surprised? Air Atlanta Iclandic have been getting validations for years, for pilots to fly JAR registered A/C and will continue to do so for the forseeable future.

Yes the JAA are spineless and operators are taking advantage.

Would a JAR licenced pilot get a validation to fly a US registed A/C? Like hell.

Would that same pilot get a work permit to work in the US if he required it? Never!

It's the old story, Europe or anything to do with it are weak and always will be.

Did you miss the sentence in the article that specificaly deals with that?

FAA licences are acceptable for initial validation and all pilots will need to work toward gaining their JAR licence which can be succesfully achieved within 6-9 months.

Seems perfectly reasonable to me. I've heard of FAA licensed pilots getting a 6 or 12 month temporary grant to fly European Aircraft.... I think an assessment including simulator checks and written papers is required. Not absolutely sure of that and this info is second hand.

And the IAA is not spineless but the country that allows these work permits is!

I can't wait for the opportunity to take a self financed type rating....what a weiner.

Heard it all before. Last year DOB was telling us to behave or we could be replaced by people only looking for $1000 a month. Appearently there were plenty of people that would kill for our jobs. First the new EU states had pilots desperate to join, then the Russians were coming, then all the ex-volaire, next the hungarians and now the Americans. Needless to say the promised floods never arrived. The tide has turned and by Jan Ryanair will have serious crewing problems. A clear case of you reap what you sow.

What do you think is the problem to get a five year work permit in Europe? This is not the U.S.

Once the company you are employed with sends a fax to the passport authority everything is set. (At least for specialized jobs). Prolongation works exactly the same. My airline has employeed ground staff from the U.S. for many many years here in the center of Europe. Never had a problem.

At a recent recruitment Day I met a number of South American 737-200 rated Captains who had been promised work permits and validations, which suprised me as Ryanair had said in the past that "Under no circumstances would they apply for work permits".

That would be ireland then! :zzz:

Now, would this not be something for REPA and IALPA to have serious look at?

"Those Captains with experience only on the EFIS models of the 737 will benefit from moving on to the NG at no cost to themselves. Other very experienced Captains"

can't see what all the fuss is about, these are experienced captains with transferable knowledge and skills competing in a global industry and a global profession- they are people who have worked hard to get the qualifications - why should they be prevented from doing what they can do just because of the green eyed monster of greed, envy and self serving protectionism ?

Whilst I have no problem with transfer of profession within the world,it would be nice if it were a level playing field. I feel a little miffed when I cant get a job in France, Germany, Holland, Spain, New Zealand, Australia, USA and have to scratch for a living whilst natives of the aforementoned countries seem to have no problem in UK/Ireland. Whlst life isnt fair in general, it would be nice, in the face of the largest global migration, if it went more than one way!!!

I second that wingandprayer!!

hit the nail on the head

What's this tripe about work permits? How many people from Ireland and the UK work in the US? And before I get savaged, I said people - not pilots. Are you seriously suggesting it doesn't or shouldn't work both ways? And that countries who do are spineless?!! The words tree, wrong, barking, and up in a different order spring to mind.

totally agree wing and prayer.

Bear11, the question of allowing professional or skilled jobs to be recruited abroad is a completely different one to allowing casual labourers to work on building sites or in restaurants.
I think both US and Irish Immigration agree on this - employers are restricted in obtaining work visas by having to show they cannot recruit locally for the position offerred.

How hard has FR tried to recruit pilots? Are they offerring market T&C's?

This has nothing to do with immigration policy, and everything to do with union busting.

Bear11. Non-pilot US and EU citizens working in each others countries are fine. It can be done by both sides relatively easily.

But you'll find no EU pilots getting 5 year contracts in the USA even if they were available......very protectionist. We must do the same in Europe until the playing field is levelled.

Are these pilots not going to cost rather a lot? To attract an experienced 737 captain, a US citizen, to another country, plus Brookfields' cut is gonna be ££££

This might seem like a daft question, but whilst I accept that the Irish Government can issue a work permit for someone to work in Ireland, can they issue a work permit for someone to live and work at Stansted or in another EU country or are they only recruitng USA nationals for the Dublin base?

Balpa and its fellow european organisations should resist this completely until European pilots have the right to live and work as freely in the good old USA! not that i'm ever interested in working there myself ever!

I have no objection to fellow proffesionals coming over here to work but it must work both ways!

Wingandprayer - I would like to understand why you can't get a job in some of those countries (especially the European ones that you mention) - Have you got the level of experience and qualifications that they are looking for ? I know friends of mine who are working in Germany and Spain

Guys whats all the fuss about. Ryanair aren't going to hire many US guys...this is just simply an excuse for the Senior guys to have a jolly in States!!! You wait and see...;)

If the yanks have 3000 or more on 737 and 1500 p1 on same, they may be eligible for a licence swap not a validation under jar. I heard of a pilot from africa with a licence printed on bog paper (and a 200 rating with a miraculous amount of hrs for the time on type and routes available) recently interviewed and the licence swap was the way forward. the caa is the last line of defence, in assessing applications for this swap but as they use the irish ,who knows. At least the yanks have come thru a system where an apprenticeship of some years will have been served to reach the left seat of a jet. Not a clandestine meeting in the the bush or behind a hotel to faciltate evrything from a ppl to a 777 rating. Not a generalisation , fact.

unfazed...just for info......7000 hrs.........5000 jet.........737efis and NG rated........LHS.........working for peanuts at a third rate company. No interviews with any UK company despite meeting everyones requirement. Like i said life isnt fair. This industry is all about right place/right time. I am not bitter , just want a chance like everyone else. So do feel agrieved that as a UK citizen I am forced to work for a foreign company because of company's recruitment policies.

Bart O'Lynn ......... check your PMs :)

wing and prayer

You have the hours, you have the experience so how about attitude, personality & track record ?

You say that you are forced to work for a company that you obviously despise - who made you do that ?

Stop being such a whinger and go and make your "luck" happen

unfazed....you asked me a question, i replied. You have never met me spoken to me or know nothing about me.
Please keep your personal 'opinions' to yourself. This thread is not for personal attacks. Oh snd what is your experience.?

.......... gone quiet for a little while! Hehe! ;)

Wing Commander Fowler

Nothing personal intended, just puzzled why you are having difficulty with such good experience and qualifications???

I do not have the qualifications that you have but I do have a lot of experience interviewing candidates for jobs and I know that attitude, personality and track record are what hirers are also looking for

Sorry if I hit a sore point !

What would you guys US ALPA would say if there where a bunch of European pilots flying around for Southwest or Jet Blue. It would be a bloody riot.
It is not the job of the respective CAA to control the flood of "Foreign" labour into a EU country rather the it is the job of the governments to do it.

A good formula to keep the undesirables out is: Work permit as a prerequisite for a validation. No work permit, no validation, no job.

AD

!) there are indeed many UK/EURO pilots flying in the USA.......I agree that US pilots shouldn't fly in Europe or the UK...just as they shouldn't have 60 years ago either....'course then we brought our own planes:ok:

Whoa Nelly!!!

Don't drag me into this....... Unfazed I'm guessing your reply was for wingandaprayer since you have no idea about my experience - I am but a humble bricklayer........ :ugh:

Wing commander you are correct, reply was not for you.

I am not attacking wing and prayer personally (as he quite rightly says I don't know him). I am just pointing out that attitude, track record and experience count just as much as paper qualifications. and national boundaries.

unfazed.. we had a saying in the service.....'be the grey man'.
That I tend to stick to.

I cause no trouble, do what is legally rostered, steer clear of writing contentious letters/e-mail to management, try to get on with people. Never had a major incident, treat my crew with respect. But I will not be bullied or pressurised into endangering my crew and its contents.
Whilst I will admit to the odd moan, after all I am a pilot,

It would be nice to get invited for an interview.
As you seem to have experience in the personnel field perhaps you could help me understand how one guages the points you raised from a standard application form.
Other similar experienced people form my company have been interviwed by companies that we all applied to at the same time.

It remains a mystery to me. I am not a proud man and will quite happily take advice from one who in experienced in a field that is a mystery to most.

? Can't all be pregnant, surely :D


The problem is, and always has been, within Europe, that to work in the UK, and aviation in general, you need English.

For a Brit to work elsewhere, he/she needs the local language.

So..................... Non-brit european needs to learn one language he/she was not taught from birth. Brit.....................learn 24 more.

Advert for FAA pilots to work in Europe
 

These Captain positions are being advertised by a agency, to work in Europe for a Low Cost carrier. The line that interests me is the one I have highlighted. How is this possible ? They do not mention having the right to live and work in Europe. Comments please.


'We already have a number of pilots booked into the simulator in Miami to be assessed and interviewed to join us to work in bases in Europe for Europe's largest and most succesfull low cost carrier.We still do however require a few more Captains current within the last 5 years on the 737 EFIS or N/G. Those Captains with experience only on the EFIS models of the 737 will benefit from moving on to the NG at no cost to themselves. Other very experienced Captains with time on other heavy jet aircraft will be offered the opportunity to take a self financed type rating courrse to fly the NG. All contracts offered are for a 5 year duration, and this opportunity offers the rare chance for Captains on this side of the Atlantic to fly and live in Europe. FAA licences are acceptable for initial validation and all pilots will need to work toward gaining their JAR licence which can be succesfully achieved within 6-9 months. Work permits can be granted and advise given on achieving this. We are looking for a large number of Captains at this stage - please note those who have already replied will be on the schedule and will be informed within the next 48 hours. Work permits can be granted and advise given on achieving this '

Wingandaprayer

While the rest of this discussion degenerates into a nationalistic slagging match I would like to help you if I can with some general info.

When it comes to application forms the main aim is to list the qualifications that are relevant for the job and keep it simple HOWEVER there are normally a couple of "open" questions which are designed to test your reasoning and motivation for the job. This is where many people stitch themselves up without realising it. Questions such as "Why do you wish to join airline XYZ", "Explain why you are interested in this role" etc -

My advice is to keep it simple ! List reasons as main bullet points with some explanation as well (but keep it simple).

If you meet the mandatory experience and qualifications then you should get an interview HOWEVER - Employers will normally check current employer for a reference (that could be an unknown variable negative/ positive or neutral)

Some examples of a "read between the lines" negative reference "Joe has very high standards and I am sure that he will eventually find an employer who will match his demands "

Bottom line is that applications for these jobs are many and the jobs are few, most jobs are networked via friends or chance meetings (right place right time). The aim is to get your application NOTICED so

1 - Do not be the "grey man" - Be concise but grab their attention with your responses (but leave them wanting to know more)
2 - Get out and about and hand deliver where possible so that you can meet people and turn that bit of paper into a positive experience
3 - Network with friends and let them know that you are in the market
4 - Enjoy the current job and forget about how naff the money is - If it really annoys you that much then ask for a meeting and try to re-negotiate a better deal (at least then your consciense will be clear when they get reference requests for you)

Hope this helps, I suspect that you are already propably doing some of the above. I hope I haven't annoyed you with my earlier posts but I was hoping to make the point that you are always in control because they are your life decisions.

Best of luck and I hope that you get a better job soon !

Unthinkable to get employment in USA
 

I feel like putting my 3 pennies into that conversation.
I am from europe currently in usa for many years, and as you know and from my own observation regardless of profession usa is highly protective about their job market , people who have no green cards have no chance of getting employement. If one is a foreigner and has a green card has still hard time getting employement if there are plenty americans for the jobs.
People face it Americans love Americans born citizens rest is just a slogan.

'Work permits can be granted and advise given on achieving this '
The simple question is, is this legal ? or is it already happening, someone mentioned Air Atlanta (I have met a few AA pilots who were American but thought they had the right to live and work in Europe, through birth or other)

We have been through a long period of recruitment drought and Iwould like to move up the ladder now things are looking better, but I fear this will not happen if the above becomes common place. Where is the representation of European pilots rights, because sure as **** the Americans have thiers. I would not be able to get a job serveing coffee on an american aircraft.

I would like to hear from any American pilots and thier views on the situation.