Balpa and its fellow european organisations should resist this completely until European pilots have the right to live and work as freely in the good old USA! not that i'm ever interested in working there myself ever!

I have no objection to fellow proffesionals coming over here to work but it must work both ways!

Wingandprayer - I would like to understand why you can't get a job in some of those countries (especially the European ones that you mention) - Have you got the level of experience and qualifications that they are looking for ? I know friends of mine who are working in Germany and Spain

Guys whats all the fuss about. Ryanair aren't going to hire many US guys...this is just simply an excuse for the Senior guys to have a jolly in States!!! You wait and see...;)

If the yanks have 3000 or more on 737 and 1500 p1 on same, they may be eligible for a licence swap not a validation under jar. I heard of a pilot from africa with a licence printed on bog paper (and a 200 rating with a miraculous amount of hrs for the time on type and routes available) recently interviewed and the licence swap was the way forward. the caa is the last line of defence, in assessing applications for this swap but as they use the irish ,who knows. At least the yanks have come thru a system where an apprenticeship of some years will have been served to reach the left seat of a jet. Not a clandestine meeting in the the bush or behind a hotel to faciltate evrything from a ppl to a 777 rating. Not a generalisation , fact.

unfazed...just for info......7000 hrs.........5000 jet.........737efis and NG rated........LHS.........working for peanuts at a third rate company. No interviews with any UK company despite meeting everyones requirement. Like i said life isnt fair. This industry is all about right place/right time. I am not bitter , just want a chance like everyone else. So do feel agrieved that as a UK citizen I am forced to work for a foreign company because of company's recruitment policies.

Bart O'Lynn ......... check your PMs :)

wing and prayer

You have the hours, you have the experience so how about attitude, personality & track record ?

You say that you are forced to work for a company that you obviously despise - who made you do that ?

Stop being such a whinger and go and make your "luck" happen

unfazed....you asked me a question, i replied. You have never met me spoken to me or know nothing about me.
Please keep your personal 'opinions' to yourself. This thread is not for personal attacks. Oh snd what is your experience.?

.......... gone quiet for a little while! Hehe! ;)

Wing Commander Fowler

Nothing personal intended, just puzzled why you are having difficulty with such good experience and qualifications???

I do not have the qualifications that you have but I do have a lot of experience interviewing candidates for jobs and I know that attitude, personality and track record are what hirers are also looking for

Sorry if I hit a sore point !

What would you guys US ALPA would say if there where a bunch of European pilots flying around for Southwest or Jet Blue. It would be a bloody riot.
It is not the job of the respective CAA to control the flood of "Foreign" labour into a EU country rather the it is the job of the governments to do it.

A good formula to keep the undesirables out is: Work permit as a prerequisite for a validation. No work permit, no validation, no job.

AD

!) there are indeed many UK/EURO pilots flying in the USA.......I agree that US pilots shouldn't fly in Europe or the UK...just as they shouldn't have 60 years ago either....'course then we brought our own planes:ok:

Whoa Nelly!!!

Don't drag me into this....... Unfazed I'm guessing your reply was for wingandaprayer since you have no idea about my experience - I am but a humble bricklayer........ :ugh:

Wing commander you are correct, reply was not for you.

I am not attacking wing and prayer personally (as he quite rightly says I don't know him). I am just pointing out that attitude, track record and experience count just as much as paper qualifications. and national boundaries.

unfazed.. we had a saying in the service.....'be the grey man'.
That I tend to stick to.

I cause no trouble, do what is legally rostered, steer clear of writing contentious letters/e-mail to management, try to get on with people. Never had a major incident, treat my crew with respect. But I will not be bullied or pressurised into endangering my crew and its contents.
Whilst I will admit to the odd moan, after all I am a pilot,

It would be nice to get invited for an interview.
As you seem to have experience in the personnel field perhaps you could help me understand how one guages the points you raised from a standard application form.
Other similar experienced people form my company have been interviwed by companies that we all applied to at the same time.

It remains a mystery to me. I am not a proud man and will quite happily take advice from one who in experienced in a field that is a mystery to most.

? Can't all be pregnant, surely :D


The problem is, and always has been, within Europe, that to work in the UK, and aviation in general, you need English.

For a Brit to work elsewhere, he/she needs the local language.

So..................... Non-brit european needs to learn one language he/she was not taught from birth. Brit.....................learn 24 more.

Advert for FAA pilots to work in Europe
 

These Captain positions are being advertised by a agency, to work in Europe for a Low Cost carrier. The line that interests me is the one I have highlighted. How is this possible ? They do not mention having the right to live and work in Europe. Comments please.


'We already have a number of pilots booked into the simulator in Miami to be assessed and interviewed to join us to work in bases in Europe for Europe's largest and most succesfull low cost carrier.We still do however require a few more Captains current within the last 5 years on the 737 EFIS or N/G. Those Captains with experience only on the EFIS models of the 737 will benefit from moving on to the NG at no cost to themselves. Other very experienced Captains with time on other heavy jet aircraft will be offered the opportunity to take a self financed type rating courrse to fly the NG. All contracts offered are for a 5 year duration, and this opportunity offers the rare chance for Captains on this side of the Atlantic to fly and live in Europe. FAA licences are acceptable for initial validation and all pilots will need to work toward gaining their JAR licence which can be succesfully achieved within 6-9 months. Work permits can be granted and advise given on achieving this. We are looking for a large number of Captains at this stage - please note those who have already replied will be on the schedule and will be informed within the next 48 hours. Work permits can be granted and advise given on achieving this '

Wingandaprayer

While the rest of this discussion degenerates into a nationalistic slagging match I would like to help you if I can with some general info.

When it comes to application forms the main aim is to list the qualifications that are relevant for the job and keep it simple HOWEVER there are normally a couple of "open" questions which are designed to test your reasoning and motivation for the job. This is where many people stitch themselves up without realising it. Questions such as "Why do you wish to join airline XYZ", "Explain why you are interested in this role" etc -

My advice is to keep it simple ! List reasons as main bullet points with some explanation as well (but keep it simple).

If you meet the mandatory experience and qualifications then you should get an interview HOWEVER - Employers will normally check current employer for a reference (that could be an unknown variable negative/ positive or neutral)

Some examples of a "read between the lines" negative reference "Joe has very high standards and I am sure that he will eventually find an employer who will match his demands "

Bottom line is that applications for these jobs are many and the jobs are few, most jobs are networked via friends or chance meetings (right place right time). The aim is to get your application NOTICED so

1 - Do not be the "grey man" - Be concise but grab their attention with your responses (but leave them wanting to know more)
2 - Get out and about and hand deliver where possible so that you can meet people and turn that bit of paper into a positive experience
3 - Network with friends and let them know that you are in the market
4 - Enjoy the current job and forget about how naff the money is - If it really annoys you that much then ask for a meeting and try to re-negotiate a better deal (at least then your consciense will be clear when they get reference requests for you)

Hope this helps, I suspect that you are already propably doing some of the above. I hope I haven't annoyed you with my earlier posts but I was hoping to make the point that you are always in control because they are your life decisions.

Best of luck and I hope that you get a better job soon !

Unthinkable to get employment in USA
 

I feel like putting my 3 pennies into that conversation.
I am from europe currently in usa for many years, and as you know and from my own observation regardless of profession usa is highly protective about their job market , people who have no green cards have no chance of getting employement. If one is a foreigner and has a green card has still hard time getting employement if there are plenty americans for the jobs.
People face it Americans love Americans born citizens rest is just a slogan.

'Work permits can be granted and advise given on achieving this '
The simple question is, is this legal ? or is it already happening, someone mentioned Air Atlanta (I have met a few AA pilots who were American but thought they had the right to live and work in Europe, through birth or other)

We have been through a long period of recruitment drought and Iwould like to move up the ladder now things are looking better, but I fear this will not happen if the above becomes common place. Where is the representation of European pilots rights, because sure as **** the Americans have thiers. I would not be able to get a job serveing coffee on an american aircraft.

I would like to hear from any American pilots and thier views on the situation.