How hard do you work?
 

Now that all July rosters are out and for the sake of comparing fellow pilots lifestyles around the world, I think it might be interesting to run a simple exercise:

Could you volunteer to tell us a few details of your July's work, such us operator, fleet, position, base, hours, positioning, night stops, days off or any other info you may consider relevant.

OK, I'll start;

JUL 2005
Operator: JK
Fleet: A320
Base: PMI
Flight Time: 74:50 (+ 6:30 deadhead)
Days away from Base: 12
Days Off: 11 (+3 days rest)
Roster Stability: Dubious

JUL 05
Operator: Ezy
Fleet: 737
Flight time: 96 hours (despite leave at start of month)
Days away from base: 0
Days off: 16 (includes 4 days leave)
Roster stability: good
Tired? definately

JUL 05
Operator: XLA
Fleet: 737
Flight time: 78
Away from base: 2 days
Days off: 18 (includes sby's which I can do at home, so I think of it as a day off)
Roster stability: fair
Tired? yes, too many night flights (80%)

Jul 05
Operator MYT
Fleet A320
Flight Time 75:05
Away from Base 0
Days Off 8
Roster Stability Excellent. Stability window -2 & +3 hours on
roster. However, the crewing
department prefer to ignore this when
it suits them.
Tired Always
Leave 9 days
Flying duties 11
Nights 5
Duty hours 100:05

JUL 05
Operator: Ezy
Fleet: 737
Flight time: 107:50 hours (yes, that is correct)
Duty time: 165
Sectors: 58
Days away from base: 4
Days off: 10
Roster stability: something will change, but generally good
Tired? aren't we all?

(edit to add duty time & number of sectors)

I thought the max block hours was 100h in 28 consec days???:hmm:

It is, but July has 31 days ! :p

ezy 60 sectors and 120.15 rostered flying hours this is norm for lgw based this could lead to 80 sectors as there are 7 days of 2 sector days
knackered
stressed
no life
minimum rest
oh and loads of money
no time to spend it

princebuster

we dont have max hours? crewing dont no about that one
perhaps a phone call should be made

May roster 40 sectors 81.51 hours and 17 days leave work that one out

Jul 05
Operator: EZY
Fleet: 737
Flight Time: 59hrs (no leave)
Away from Base: 4 days
Days Off: 11
Standbys: 6
Roster Stability: very good
Tired: No way!

EZY
319
Block 80
12 days off
4 nights away
some stbys (= daysoff)
stability: excellent
Tired? Probably at various points during the month, but generall ok.

GSS
744
Block 60
17 nights away
11 days off, (never less than 20 days work per month, including Feb)
0 standbys
Hours away from base 420
Tired? - lost a large proportion of those few days off to sleep and jet-lag. Then back to work.

AEU
757
Block 77hrs
8 nights away
8 days off
3 standby
125 duty hours
stability..improving all the time
Tired?...not really, every overnight flight followed by a rest day.

Dull Boy

I suspect you are counting all TAFB as Duty, beacuse I cannot believe that you have 60 block hours and 420 Duty Hours.....

correct .

Hi Guys
Cathay Cargo
747-200 manchester
60hrsflight time. 14 days away
16 days home
roster instab. only downroute
plenty of nights on the beer in dubai/HK
not bad really

ESK
B735
97:20 block
11 days off. 0 standby.
3 nights away from base.
Roster changes frequently.
Tired: not really.

Jul 05
Operator: GSM
Fleet: 737
Flight Time: 112 Block
Away from Base: 0
Days Off: min8
Standbys: 0
Roster Stability: very good
Tired: Not realy (yet)!

POL.777 good to see that you got in, how is my previous club doing?

Pointer :E

dobre dobre :D
It's nice and friendly.

Jul 05
Operator: VS
Fleet: B744
Block Hours: 80.5 (approx 10 of which will be 'bunk' time)
Nights downroute: 8
Days off at home: 14 (18 nights)
Standby days: 0
Roster stability: as a rock
Tired: Not really but jet-lagged all the time. Makes a good excuse for those afternoon 'naps' I frequently need when you get to my age. :zzz:

The above equates to 4.5 trips: LHR-JFK (0.5 of a trip as it crosses the month boundary); LGW-MCO (twice); LGW-NAS/HAV (position between Nassau and Havana); LHR-SFO.

Duty hours away from base shouldn't be counted as we are still 'off-duty'. They are counted as 'time away from base'.

Company has very high Balpa membership with good, incremental basic salary, even better hourly flight pay, tax free cash allowances downroute and contracted to an annual flying limit of 750 hours. Add to that excellent staff travel benefits and agreements with almost every other ICAO airline worldwide.

The downside? The amount of time it takes from disembarking to getting on the crew bus when arriving as US airports with 18-22 crew. Everywhere else not a problem. :rolleyes:

My heart bleeds for you all.....

Just to ground you all in the real commercial world we work

60 hours a week!!

Weekends off technically but invariably have to catch up on those items that I was unable to during the week

Employee responsibility, HR (what a nightmare), Budgeting & planning etc

Be very grateful that you are doing something you love and are getting paid for it and when you get home you can forget it whilst you are off at least until the next duty day because the job is still getting done whilst you are off.

d192049d, before you enter the fray and cause a massive derailment of the threads intention, and I'm sure you'd know this if you were experienced in 'the job', block hours are not to be equated with groundlings '9-5' plus overtime working hours. Block hours, just to make sure you and all the other shocked outsiders are aware, are the hours from push-back to brakes-on back on stand.

The last time I had to defend this was with a certain paedophile who was pretending to be an aviation expert and entrepreneur who insisted that the only time pilots actually worked was from push-back until the autopilot was engaged and then the opposite at the other end. Flight crew also have to report for work at least an hour and often longer, especially in long haul, before the scheduled time of departure. In case you may not have thought this through completely before posting your statements above, you must remember the time that it takes to turn around an aircraft on multiple sectors and also the time it takes a crew to finish off their duty at the end of their shift.

It is still slightly amusing when you get pax who assume that you are going to get off the a/c after they have left and will, a la 'Mile High' (tv farce), be spending the next few days in a drunken, mass orgy with your fellow cabin-crew in a five star resort hotel. From the tone of the post by d192049d, it would probably be fair to assume that the mention of 60, 80 or 100 block hours a month is the total hours worked. I respectfully suggest that those who feel aggrieved at the hours we work go and look up the meaning and the difference between 'block-hours' and 'duty-hours'. :rolleyes:

Oh, and before I forget, you too can have cushy job like ours with minimal working hours and all the associated glamour by doing exactly what we had to do... scrimp and save, remortgage your life, do the studying, training and all the tests and exams before the catch-22 slog of trying to get on that bottom rung of the employment ladder and then suffering the seniority system and terrorists that cause you and your colleagues great career harm with their inconsiderate mass murder using our tools of the trade as their weapons of mass destruction! :rolleyes:

The simple answer to anyone who sees our 'whingeing' as fortunate when compared to their mundane 9-5 existence is to tell them to get off their @rses and get a licence!

d192049d, before you enter the fray and cause a massive derailment of the threads intention, and I'm sure you'd know this if you were experienced in 'the job', block hours are not to be equated with groundlings '9-5' plus overtime working hours. Block hours, just to make sure you and all the other shocked outsiders are aware, are the hours from push-back to brakes-on back on stand.

I am aware of this Danny as my partner flys and has done for 17 years both Long Haul & Short Haul, so I feel qualified to comment...

The last time I had to defend this was with a certain paedophile who was pretending to be an aviation expert and entrepreneur who insisted that the only time pilots actually worked was from push-back until the autopilot was engaged and then the opposite at the other end. Flight crew also have to report for work at least an hour and often longer, especially in long haul, before the scheduled time of departure. In case you may not have thought this through completely before posting your statements above, you must remember the time that it takes to turn around an aircraft on multiple sectors and also the time it takes a crew to finish off their duty at the end of their shift.

Again I am aware of this for the reason already stated which is why I still maintain you need remain grounded when discussing your working week by comparing it with the 9-5's as you term it. By the way what is that and why mention the word paedophile in the context of my post?

It is still slightly amusing when you get pax who assume that you are going to get off the a/c after they have left and will, a la 'Mile High' (tv farce), be spending the next few days in a drunken, mass orgy with your fellow cabin-crew in a five star resort hotel. From the tone of the post by d192049d, it would probably be fair to assume that the mention of 60, 80 or 100 block hours a month is the total hours worked. I respectfully suggest that those who feel aggrieved at the hours we work go and look up the meaning and the difference between 'block-hours' and 'duty-hours'.

It may be amusing but having attended a number of such parties down route I can testify that they do happen with the exception of the orgies. As to what this has to do with my post I do not know as I never mentioned anything about this. Calm down Danny my post was meant as a commercial world context to help stop you all feeling hard done by.

Oh, and before I forget, you too can have cushy job like ours with minimal working hours and all the associated glamour by doing exactly what we had to do... scrimp and save, remortgage your life, do the studying, training and all the tests and exams before the catch-22 slog of trying to get on that bottom rung of the employment ladder and then suffering the seniority system and terrorists that cause you and your colleagues great career harm with their inconsiderate mass murder using our tools of the trade as their weapons of mass destruction!

Danny I would admit complete admiration for all of you who have made the sacrifices you have, that said slightly off topic and perhaps a sign of a little anger in your response me thinks. However it is not just the flying world where such sacrifices have to be made and most careers have the long tortuous path to the top you describe

The simple answer to anyone who sees our 'whingeing' as fortunate when compared to their mundane 9-5 existence is to tell them to get off their @rses and get a licence!

Have a licence and fly for fun when I have the time. Perhaps not so high but just as enjoyable.

Puzzle me this....

Hey Danny, you forgot about all the sims we have to do! ;)

Lets get this thread on back on track. If you want a bun fight start a new one please.

d192049d you're not qualified to enter this thread so no offence but go peddle you're twaddle elsewhere.

<edited for spelling!>

I am not the one doing all of the cycling....

Maybe he meant peddle? Either way...

d192049d you are right in what you say, but as you can see by some of the replies you will be harangued if you disagree with the elitist faternity :{

In defence the honest reply is that it is money for old rope and if you can do it for a living go for it.
It is worth the studying and if self financed, the money invested.

Not sure what other employment field you can be paid a good salary for working 900hrs maximum per year. If it was not the posters in this forum would be doing something else :ok:

Jul 05
Fleet: B733
Block Hours: 40.5
Overnights: 0
Days off:18
Standby days: 0
Roster stability: what's that again?
Tired: of boredom.

Engineer: with 900 hours of work per year, people would only do maybe 400 hour block time, which happens to be true for my company, however, this is very, very unusual (especially on short to medium haul).

Did you mean block hours? if you did, it's more like 1500 working hours. And 900 may be the max in your country, but local regulations allow for well over 1000 block hours per year here. - remember, JARs are not law.

Is the GBP1100 after tax we all get in this new EU country really that much, especially when you consider the money going straight to the bank?

nice thread, thank you very much! cheers, IP

But when you tally up the DUTY HOURS we're working well past the 9-5 fraternity.

Possibly not Scottie. The average 9-5'er will work 1850 hours per year, based on a 40 hour week. With the extra half hours added on 'for the company' most will work over 2,000 hours in a year. EU directive prevents aircrew working more than 2,000 hours in a year.

Jul 05
Operator: BAW
Fleet: 737
Flight Time: 73 block
Away from Base: 5 nights
Days Off: 11
Standbys: 6 days
Roster Stability: very good
Tired: yep...min rest at home is getting a bit tedious

:hmm:

Although I find the 'us' versus 'them' a little bit silly I would like to add one aspect most people here did NOT notice.

Even if most 9-5ers might over all get a slightly longer duty time than the ones up in the tincan (I have never worked 9-5, it looked more like 7-7 or so), on the ground you very seldom have to work at times that go against your body clock.

I guess any long distance pilot (as cargo boy already mentioned) will be able to confirm the jet-lag does create some fatigue. Personally I am always amazed how crews can professionally fly an aircraft again after the rest time while I hesitate if I really should take that rental car to the office or have someone pick me up or actually try to sleep a bit more...

And now back to topic...

Jul 05
Operator: BAW
Fleet: 777
Flight Time: 78:45 block
Away from Base: 12 nights
Days Off: 14 including leave.
Standbys: 0
Roster Stability: fixed, pretty much.
Tired: The above includes eight Atlantic crossings so .... yes!

June 05
Fleet: ATR42/72
Flight Time: 80:00 block
Away from Home (base can vary): 21 nights
Days Off: 8
Standbys: 0 (this month)
Roster Stability: changes regularly, very difficult to plan anything
Tired: Depends, we have a mixture of scheduled flights/charter and freight. Scheduled flying (daytime) is no problem and certainly a dream compared to the fatigue of night freight!

Working for a small company, the salary is poor...halve what you would earn net on the right hand seat of a 737 in pounds and then imagine being paid that amount gross in Euros (I'm serious)! The good news is that I work with fantastic colleagues, in fun locations and I'm building hours quickly. I work long hours and many weekends, but my lifestyle is fantastic compared to my previous life...

As someone who is relatively new to the world of commercial aviation in the UK (thanks Danny by the way). I think I have a rather unique perspective of coming from my work background of manual labour jobs....corporate relations....marketing....and plus a few other things besides.
Presently Im flying short/medium haul..(see page 1 of this thread)..and I can honestly tell those who scoff...its bloody hard work!...pilots dont wear as a badge of honour their flying hours, duty time, or indeed time off spent down route.
Perhaps those who scoff should try dodging thunderstorms...dealing with foreign ATC (english not spoken well)...10 working hours spent at 8500ft in 30% humidity....constant delays....grumpy cabin crew....night flights on minimum rest, and thats all I can think of in my presently knackered state.
So far as where this sits on the scale of effort vs energy....its the hardest I've had to work ever!!, remember scoffers..if we get it a bit wrong, its all over the papers the next day.

Excuse me as an SLF commenting but perhaps impartially

I think many -especially more senior managers- work much longer than pilots even when you take duty time and related non flying work hours

But that ist the point-I do not want the guy or lady up front bringing me back to LHR at 2100 on a February night with a 35 knot southerly wind and pouring rain to feel like I often do at the end of a long working day or working week.

I am sure you all work pretty darn hard and I am sure the job has its ups and downs ( whoops) like all others but you are pilots and you are directly responsible for many many lives-very few executives can cause mayhem and death as an immediate consequence of one bad decision (and thank god for that) Therefore its only right and proper and logical that there should be restrictions on how long you work because the hardest part of your job tends to come at the end of the days work pretty much all the time.

I ve spent way too much time away from home to know the glamour and novelty value wears off fairly quickly as well so if thats a 'perk f the job' it is very debateable and at least I am allowed a few drinks,

So if you didnt mind me intruding-I read the thread as I interested in how 'tired' you folks assesed yourselves. I dont think any comparisons with ground jobs are remotely relevant - I think one poster pointed that out , the idea of the thread was to compare like with like not apples with oranges or just generally complain.
PB

July 2005
Operator: KLM
Fleet: 737
Flight Time: 66 block
Away from Base: 10 nights
Days Off: 13 *)
Standbys: 4 days
Roster Stability: Very good.
Tired: Only the day I arrive home, next day is usually ok.

*) We have 11 days off per 28, but they are not always nicely spread, hence the 13...

Fleet:A320
Block time: 82:40 Hrs in 10 days of flying.
Days off:10
Stdby:3
Roster stability: we need "some" flexibility...
Tired: sometimes yes.
In general I may not complain .

Company:BAW
Fleet:747
Hours: 89
Away from Base:12 nights
Days Off:15
Roster Stability: Excellent


5 night flights in amongst that, knackered, not really but will need some afternoon naps on my days off
:ok:

edited to say hours are 89, can not seem to rid myself of the geek in glasses:rolleyes:

company: TFL
blockhrs : 63.00
STBY's : 7
D/O : 9
Nights : 6
Naggered: Only after long haul through 4 or more timezones

Company had to more or less start again from scratch, so a very mild program this month. Usually it's back and forth over the ocean, now more European flights are coming which is very nice for the bio-clock I must say.