Pilot Wages.
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 83
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From: Daigaba System
Pilot Wages.
What is the pay band of Pilots?
Say a newly qualified Frozen ATPL - Starting with First Airline job to a Captain of a Large 747 or 777?
Hear many stories of how much but what are the exact figures??
Say a newly qualified Frozen ATPL - Starting with First Airline job to a Captain of a Large 747 or 777?
Hear many stories of how much but what are the exact figures??
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 105
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From: Between the Moon and NYC
Expedite Climb,
That website you linked is INACCURATE. I have several friends who fly for Delta in the States and one FO on the 737 made $130,000 last year (in 5th year - and still on reserve). I also know a Captain who is in the top 10 in seniority and he pulled down over $300,000 last year with some moderate surplus flying. The Delta figures are way off....
That website you linked is INACCURATE. I have several friends who fly for Delta in the States and one FO on the 737 made $130,000 last year (in 5th year - and still on reserve). I also know a Captain who is in the top 10 in seniority and he pulled down over $300,000 last year with some moderate surplus flying. The Delta figures are way off....
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 865
Likes: 0
From: UK
Lavdumper,
That as maybe. I believe it is made by a chap in the UK, and was designed as a UK site, but has expanded to include other countries. Most people find it most useful.
Moreover, it is only updated by employees of the companies, and hence should not be inaccurate. Maybe get your friends to send detailed updates to the chap ?
AFAIK, the UK stuff is pretty accurate.
That as maybe. I believe it is made by a chap in the UK, and was designed as a UK site, but has expanded to include other countries. Most people find it most useful.
Moreover, it is only updated by employees of the companies, and hence should not be inaccurate. Maybe get your friends to send detailed updates to the chap ?
AFAIK, the UK stuff is pretty accurate.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
From: Surrey
Thanks for your support experdite climb. I'm that cheerful UK chap that runs the website you linked to. Could I politely point out to the people that use the site that ALL the information on the website is provided by pilots.
As those criticising the site in this thread seem more than willing to benefit from the information that others have so kindly taken the time to submit, could i politely suggest you follow suit?
The website has taken 6 months of hard work to put together and it's success is based 100% on the pilot community's willingness to share information.
I make no money from the site and as the traffic is growing all the time, it actually costs me quite a bit to run. Baring in mind I'm living on a student loan at university you can see how this kind of criticism can annoy me.
Please go to the webpage for the company you work for and click on "submit new information". That way we can all benefit from the information you have.
Thanks for everyone's help so far.
MrSurrey
As those criticising the site in this thread seem more than willing to benefit from the information that others have so kindly taken the time to submit, could i politely suggest you follow suit?
The website has taken 6 months of hard work to put together and it's success is based 100% on the pilot community's willingness to share information.
I make no money from the site and as the traffic is growing all the time, it actually costs me quite a bit to run. Baring in mind I'm living on a student loan at university you can see how this kind of criticism can annoy me.
Please go to the webpage for the company you work for and click on "submit new information". That way we can all benefit from the information you have.
Thanks for everyone's help so far.
MrSurrey
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,132
Likes: 3
From: on the golf course (Covid permitting)
mrsurrey
congratulations on all your hard work with the web site.
As far as I am concerned, the renumeration package at my company (BA) and others are made available to BALPA members annually. Why then would I want to make them more widely available to those who either are just nosey or stirrers. What good reason do anyone else have for knowing them?
rgds
congratulations on all your hard work with the web site.
As far as I am concerned, the renumeration package at my company (BA) and others are made available to BALPA members annually. Why then would I want to make them more widely available to those who either are just nosey or stirrers. What good reason do anyone else have for knowing them?
rgds
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 317
Likes: 0
From: UK
Salary
Top Bunk,
I'm a wannabe who has a wife and mortgage to consider. I cannot join BALPA until I commence training - thus this site has helped me justify my career change to my wife with evidence that we won't have to live in poverty for the rest of our lives.
I have no interest in stirring, just a need to justify sizeable loans etc to the bank (and myself)
Thanks Mr Surrey
Warm regards,
Desk-pilot
I'm a wannabe who has a wife and mortgage to consider. I cannot join BALPA until I commence training - thus this site has helped me justify my career change to my wife with evidence that we won't have to live in poverty for the rest of our lives.
I have no interest in stirring, just a need to justify sizeable loans etc to the bank (and myself)
Thanks Mr Surrey
Warm regards,
Desk-pilot
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
From: LAX
lavdumper
You seem to know alot about DAL or so you say but the site doesn't refer to a particular type of aircraft. I too know a Capt who is in the top 5 and he's not pulling $300,000...but less than that..where are you in the UK....you know alot for someone who doesnt fly at all
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,271
Likes: 0
From: West Country
TopBunk
I feel that your reply was extrememly ungracious - these wannabes are just looking for accurate information on which to make probably the biggest decision of their working lives. You were never asked what your particular wages were, just the pay scales.
I never realised that Pilot pay scales were a state secret, if this is the case why not Firemen, Police, Doctors etc?
If any of the wannabes who read this are lucky enough to get a job with BA, I would hope that they get colleagues who are more supportive and helpful than you.
I feel that your reply was extrememly ungracious - these wannabes are just looking for accurate information on which to make probably the biggest decision of their working lives. You were never asked what your particular wages were, just the pay scales.
I never realised that Pilot pay scales were a state secret, if this is the case why not Firemen, Police, Doctors etc?
If any of the wannabes who read this are lucky enough to get a job with BA, I would hope that they get colleagues who are more supportive and helpful than you.
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,132
Likes: 3
From: on the golf course (Covid permitting)
J2
Well, one difference is that the groups you mention are public employees, we are not.
If they get a job with BA they will find no more supportive colleague than I.
If people really have the desire to find out pilot salaries they should contact the airline directly and not have to rely on factually incorrect and outdated data from another site. This would weed out the deserving from the nosey, for one and secondly not give people false expectations.
To give you an example, this web site says that commands are available in 1-2 years - I don't think so! Try 10 years for anyone joining now.
As I said in my first post, congrats to mrsurrey for attempting to provide the service, for everyone else, don't rely on the data in purports to contain.
I never realised that Pilot pay scales were a state secret, if this is the case why not Firemen, Police, Doctors etc?
I would hope that they get colleagues who are more supportive and helpful than you.
If people really have the desire to find out pilot salaries they should contact the airline directly and not have to rely on factually incorrect and outdated data from another site. This would weed out the deserving from the nosey, for one and secondly not give people false expectations.
To give you an example, this web site says that commands are available in 1-2 years - I don't think so! Try 10 years for anyone joining now.
As I said in my first post, congrats to mrsurrey for attempting to provide the service, for everyone else, don't rely on the data in purports to contain.
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: uk
Dont you just love the "I am all right jack" attitude of these BA Nigels? These kind of websites can help us all make sensible judgements on future employers. (Not that Nigels ever need to worry about having to find alternative employment -yet)
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,132
Likes: 3
From: on the golf course (Covid permitting)
Slipper
Sigh .... you are the one with a chip on your shoulder, not me. Read again what I said - I was trying to help by pointing out:
1. The data on BA is wrong, and
2. Where to go (BA) to get the correct information.
How is this not helping, this is pointing out to people that this website is not necessarily reliable, therefore do yourself(ves) a favour and don't plan your future and megabuck expenditures on what it contains, but contact the proper sources.
Furthermore, I stand by what I said nosey stirrers - our salaries are our business and need not be in the public domain, those in the business know. Don't see you publicising your salary or the sh1tstirring editors of Fleet Streets' best tabloids, so why should we.
Sigh .... you are the one with a chip on your shoulder, not me. Read again what I said - I was trying to help by pointing out:
1. The data on BA is wrong, and
2. Where to go (BA) to get the correct information.
How is this not helping, this is pointing out to people that this website is not necessarily reliable, therefore do yourself(ves) a favour and don't plan your future and megabuck expenditures on what it contains, but contact the proper sources.
Furthermore, I stand by what I said nosey stirrers - our salaries are our business and need not be in the public domain, those in the business know. Don't see you publicising your salary or the sh1tstirring editors of Fleet Streets' best tabloids, so why should we.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 981
Likes: 0
From: In a nice house
In case the guy actually wanted an answer as opposed to people bickering.....
A new FO on a jet, working for a British schedule or charter airline will get somewhere in the region of £35-45k plus allowances, which will be somewhere between £3k and £10k.
However, most people start on turbo-props for the (are there any left?) regional carriers. They will probably start on around £20k+.
After a number of years (varies hugely) if you pass a command course, and there is a vacancy, etc.etc. then you''ll move onto the Captains scale.
For turbo-props its probably in the £35k+ range and for jets, £55k+.
There are annual increments which in effect mean that the more experience and loyalty you have with that company the more money you get.
If it IS a journo asking, great, I am fed up with reading that pilots all earn £150k. I don't know of anyone earning that, although I do know someone at BA, a senior guy, manager, training captain, etc.etc. about to retire, and I think he was on about £100k including allowances, etc.
However, note also journos, that much of our work involves having no life.
Many pilots work 6 or 7 days on, 2 off, and often work 12 hour days. They get a small handful of weekends off per year if they are lucky, leave of 4-5 weeks and are often expected to spend their days off recovering from the previous flights (ie. from nights/ unsocial hours flights and jet lag). The food is often poor, we are classed as radiation workers and must pass a medical every 6-12 months, 2 days of sim check every 6 months and a line check every 6 months. Fail any of these and you can be out of a job. Plus there is ground school, security, wet drills, fire and smoke, technical ground school, CRM, etc.etc.
Flying a short flight on a nice day when everything works is great.
Flying long hours, multi sectors, in !!!!e weather, with an aircraft that is not 100% working (it is legal) is when we really earn the money. When the weather is so appalling outside that you wouldn't walk your dog, bear a thought for those pilots who have just flown all night and are now doing an approach right at the limits of the aircraft.
A new FO on a jet, working for a British schedule or charter airline will get somewhere in the region of £35-45k plus allowances, which will be somewhere between £3k and £10k.
However, most people start on turbo-props for the (are there any left?) regional carriers. They will probably start on around £20k+.
After a number of years (varies hugely) if you pass a command course, and there is a vacancy, etc.etc. then you''ll move onto the Captains scale.
For turbo-props its probably in the £35k+ range and for jets, £55k+.
There are annual increments which in effect mean that the more experience and loyalty you have with that company the more money you get.
If it IS a journo asking, great, I am fed up with reading that pilots all earn £150k. I don't know of anyone earning that, although I do know someone at BA, a senior guy, manager, training captain, etc.etc. about to retire, and I think he was on about £100k including allowances, etc.
However, note also journos, that much of our work involves having no life.
Many pilots work 6 or 7 days on, 2 off, and often work 12 hour days. They get a small handful of weekends off per year if they are lucky, leave of 4-5 weeks and are often expected to spend their days off recovering from the previous flights (ie. from nights/ unsocial hours flights and jet lag). The food is often poor, we are classed as radiation workers and must pass a medical every 6-12 months, 2 days of sim check every 6 months and a line check every 6 months. Fail any of these and you can be out of a job. Plus there is ground school, security, wet drills, fire and smoke, technical ground school, CRM, etc.etc.
Flying a short flight on a nice day when everything works is great.
Flying long hours, multi sectors, in !!!!e weather, with an aircraft that is not 100% working (it is legal) is when we really earn the money. When the weather is so appalling outside that you wouldn't walk your dog, bear a thought for those pilots who have just flown all night and are now doing an approach right at the limits of the aircraft.
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,832
Likes: 115
From: UK
What an excellent posting by Airbus Girl. You have just about said it all. In fact, I find myself thinking of one of the wonderful outpourings of Ernest K Gann in his classic "Fate is The Hunter" in which he says something along the lines of:
"It is generally accepted that pilots are overpaid. It is also my experience that they generally earn their entire annual salary in just two minutes of the year. During those two minutes they would cheerfully give the whole lot back to be somewhere else".
"It is generally accepted that pilots are overpaid. It is also my experience that they generally earn their entire annual salary in just two minutes of the year. During those two minutes they would cheerfully give the whole lot back to be somewhere else".
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
From: Twilight Zone
Desk Pilot....
BALPA membership is available to those training. You DO NOT have to have a commercial licence to benefit from the membership- and at reduced 'unemployed' rates.
The IPA is even cheaper (£25 yr or something small) and they will give you more practical, relevant and useful data in this area.
BALPA membership is available to those training. You DO NOT have to have a commercial licence to benefit from the membership- and at reduced 'unemployed' rates.
The IPA is even cheaper (£25 yr or something small) and they will give you more practical, relevant and useful data in this area.
