Commencement of FDP; time and place

[Boeingdriver999]

Hi all,

Just wondering what other operators do with regard to commencing of the FDP? EASA FTL says when required to report for duty which includes a sector(s).

So carpark, crew room, security, crew room after security, aircraft or V1?

[White Van Driver]

Originally Posted by Boeingdriver999

Hi all,

Just wondering what other operators do with regard to commencing of the FDP? EASA FTL says when required to report for duty which includes a sector(s).

So carpark, crew room, security, crew room after security, aircraft or V1?

mine does briefing report time. Which on my fleet is 90mins before STD at home base, and 60min before STD after rest downroute (which is the planned dropoff time kerbside at the airport).

[BoeingDriver99]

Thanks

[Don Coyote]

Reporting times should be defined in the approved FTL scheme in the Operations Manual.

[Boeingdriver999]

Yup. They should be. What if they are not? How are they defined?

[Don Coyote]

They are frequently defined as either a place, e.g. crew room, or more often a time before scheduled departure is used. The operator has a responsibility to define the FTL reporting time taking into account of factors such as whether the crew room is airside or not, security arrangements or where the briefing takes place etc. If the reporting time is not defined, or you believe it does ot take into account reasonable factors, then get in touch with your aviation authority inspector (or anonymous report) asking for their input.

[Vulka]

In those shameful FTL does not exist any “reasonable factors”

[RMC]

Don’t see how you can be asked to report for duty after security. The security search is part of the duty (and if you are unlucky) could take you 15 mins to get through. The latest point could be just before security but your company needs to specify it in the manuals (not social media).

[Twiglet1]

Originally Posted by Don Coyote

They are frequently defined as either a place, e.g. crew room, or more often a time before scheduled departure is used. The operator has a responsibility to define the FTL reporting time taking into account of factors such as whether the crew room is airside or not, security arrangements or where the briefing takes place etc. If the reporting time is not defined, or you believe it does ot take into account reasonable factors, then get in touch with your aviation authority inspector (or anonymous report) asking for their input.

Don - many memories of discussions between a well known (defunct) AOC from Luton trying to get the UK CAA to give a judgement on reporting was when the crews dropped their cases off at check in desks or in the crew room. The answer - up to the AOC to decide.

[Don Coyote]

Twiglet1 - There are so many variables for different operators and different airports that it was always difficult for UK CAA to come up with a definitive answer. Some airports have a very slick security/bag drop such that it is not punitive to use the airside crew room as the reporting point, others less so; hence it was down to the operator to consider all the applicable conditions and define the reporting time accordingly. In the event that on the day delays mean it takes longer than standard report then crews should delay the departure until all pre-flight duties are completed correctly and report the occurrence, and reasons, through the SMS. Sufficient reports would flag that a discussion is required with the regulator.

[Superpilot]

Originally Posted by Boeingdriver999

Yup. They should be. What if they are not? How are they defined?

Last few companies I have worked for all have a 7.1.3.4 REPORTING TIMES section within the OM-A. There is also a table with definitions. This is basic stuff. I would suggest if yours is missing, your OM-A was not legitimately approved.

[oceancrosser]

Originally Posted by Superpilot

Last few companies I have worked for all have a 7.1.3.4 REPORTING TIMES section within the OM-A. There is also a table with definitions. This is basic stuff. I would suggest if yours is missing, your OM-A was not legitimately approved.

Ahem, I am not in the UK, but certainly in EASA land. Our OM-A has a different chapter number for definitions where FDP, it’s beginning and termination is defined. So there are definitely different versions.

[Twiglet1]

Originally Posted by Don Coyote

Twiglet1 - There are so many variables for different operators and different airports that it was always difficult for UK CAA to come up with a definitive answer. Some airports have a very slick security/bag drop such that it is not punitive to use the airside crew room as the reporting point, others less so; hence it was down to the operator to consider all the applicable conditions and define the reporting time accordingly. In the event that on the day delays mean it takes longer than standard report then crews should delay the departure until all pre-flight duties are completed correctly and report the occurrence, and reasons, through the SMS. Sufficient reports would flag that a discussion is required with the regulator.

Don absolutely correct. TBH it depends on the morale of the Pilots and if the Union have nothing better to do. Some good AOC's will do a quick study on the process from check in to the aircraft. We also know that in terms of delays all other departments will do their best to hang a delay on crew if they get the chance. the best thing the AOC can do is to get the crew bonus aligned to delays then this issue goes away....