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Airspace Infringement

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Airspace Infringement

Old 25th Jan 2021, 13:31
  #21 (permalink)  
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If not done already, check with maintenance to try to obtain/retreive any FDM records about this flight, and try to obtain as much info as possible about how the SID was done. 6 months later is a bit hard to remember.

NOT saying that it was not done at the time, but check with operations and try to retreive your dispatch paperwork for that flight, and go through the NOTAMs very in detail. See if, at the time, there was any Notam about the SID that you did. Check also the SID applicable at the time.

I was thinking more in the lines of a possible Altitude Constraint, or something similar, but if you say that it might be noise, well people tend to forget that aircraft DO make noise. A heavy payload on that day ?

Originally Posted by Denti View Post
put the automatics on early and pass the buck on to the FMC database provider and aircraft manufacturer if the aircraft is not able to follow the procedures precise enough.
Very Correct ! Can not over emphasize the importance of this.

On this subject, years ago did some ad-hoc flights to AMS. Remember a specific notam about an SID out of AMS mentioning a bad FMS database for that specific SID which would result in a Deviation from the SID. Probably some deviations happened. The issue was reviewed, the cause was established that the Database was incorrect for that SID, and the Correct thing was done by publishing a Notam advising about it, instead of, you deviated, so I have a nice fine for you.

A wrong database would be now impossible to prove, as that database is long gone.

All the best and Thanks for sharing the event.
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Old 25th Jan 2021, 17:38
  #22 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Landflap View Post
Denti : you are correct in affirming that the PIC is responsible but later, suggest passing the buck to the FMC provider. Can't pass the buck I suggest. Doesn't matter who is flying the aircraft and SOP's these days will often dictate that automatics are engaged. If P2 is handling and or automatjics are handling, PIC remains PIC and responsible.
In my view both can be correct. Of course the PIC is responsible, however, if something like a faulty database or aircraft performance can be found as a root cause, then you can go on and try to get your money back from them. Which in the swiss event my company did, got half a year of databases for free as compensation. Obviously, we pilots can not assure correct databases (apart from the correct date frame) or correctly patched flight computer software, we have to rely on others to make sure those are correct.
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