Easy Jet job cuts
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Human beings get accustomed quickly to changes ; before low cost carriers kicked in, going on vacation by plane was a treat the majority of middle class workers could not afford, or could afford maybe once or twice in their life time. So alternative measures were in place, such as driving to the nearest seaside city, lakes, mountains or ferry boats. We could all easily see all of that coming back in the near future.
A 25% pay cut to someone on £100 000 per year is much more manageable then it is to someone on £25 000 per year, as long as the higher earner hasn't committed himself right up to his income level. A temporary pay cut pay is preferable to a jobs cut so hopefully everyone can work together to minimise redundancies. Once normality returns, which may take a few years, then it's time for some serious bargaining over pay and conditions but at the moment it's belt tightening.
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Once normality returns, which may take a few years, then it's time for some serious bargaining over pay and conditions but at the moment it's belt tightening.
Well good luck with that, the serious bargaining that is, not the belt tightening
In March, I lost my job and after 48 years in aviation, of which 31 was in Civil aviation I’m calling it a day. For personal reasons, I’d like to give something more back in a ground training role, but quite honestly I’ve had my time and there are going to be dozens of younger, equally qualified people available that need the job more than I do.
But not once, in those 31 years did ANY union bargain for ANY improvement in my Terms and Conditions and any increase was offset by increased productivity requirements. The only progression in Ts and Cs was achieved by changing companies.
I weep for the future of of this industry but I would graciously submit that the chances of clawing things back in 2 to 3 years time are nil. In those years there are going to be thousands of pilots out of work who will give their right arms to get a job in the RHS of an Airbus or Boeing. And how many outfits do you know that have achieved any REAL gains in the last 20 years?
People like MOL and WW, to name just 2, know this and they’ll exploit it to the full. I don’t like BALPA for what they did (or more to the point what they didn’t do) when I was part of an outfit that needed their help many years ago, so I can’t see them doing anything more than spouting a load of hot air and then quietly moving off in another direction.
Well good luck with that, the serious bargaining that is, not the belt tightening
In March, I lost my job and after 48 years in aviation, of which 31 was in Civil aviation I’m calling it a day. For personal reasons, I’d like to give something more back in a ground training role, but quite honestly I’ve had my time and there are going to be dozens of younger, equally qualified people available that need the job more than I do.
But not once, in those 31 years did ANY union bargain for ANY improvement in my Terms and Conditions and any increase was offset by increased productivity requirements. The only progression in Ts and Cs was achieved by changing companies.
I weep for the future of of this industry but I would graciously submit that the chances of clawing things back in 2 to 3 years time are nil. In those years there are going to be thousands of pilots out of work who will give their right arms to get a job in the RHS of an Airbus or Boeing. And how many outfits do you know that have achieved any REAL gains in the last 20 years?
People like MOL and WW, to name just 2, know this and they’ll exploit it to the full. I don’t like BALPA for what they did (or more to the point what they didn’t do) when I was part of an outfit that needed their help many years ago, so I can’t see them doing anything more than spouting a load of hot air and then quietly moving off in another direction.
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sonicbum
Evolution of society only goes one way. Once the world opens up (and it's already starting to, at least at a regional level), people will start travelling again. Some will definitely be back travelling earlier than others due to health or financial worries, but I absolutely can't see staycations and not going any further than a half-day driving distance from home becoming the "new normal". Very few will subscribe to that, if anyone. Hence the need to keep the technical, human and organisational resources required for wide-scale travel ready for when it's up and running again.
Evolution of society only goes one way. Once the world opens up (and it's already starting to, at least at a regional level), people will start travelling again. Some will definitely be back travelling earlier than others due to health or financial worries, but I absolutely can't see staycations and not going any further than a half-day driving distance from home becoming the "new normal". Very few will subscribe to that, if anyone. Hence the need to keep the technical, human and organisational resources required for wide-scale travel ready for when it's up and running again.
The LTN aviation community has been decimated massively in the last few months, but also in the last couple of years. For a town that is unusual that it has a higher number of better paid jobs than what you'd perceive, it has a far bigger impact than others.
(All numbers global)
8000 TUI jobs - will Wigmore House survive with the owner looking to convert to homes?
4500 EZY jobs - will they continue with their new HQ?
MAL / MAEL gone completely in 2017-2019 and no replacement
Gulfstream moving to FAB
New WZZ UK AOC, but many crews based overseas?
The terminal expansion has helped somewhat, but apart from temporary construction jobs, these are few and far better bar the minimum wage paying occupations. It's a sorry sight.
(All numbers global)
8000 TUI jobs - will Wigmore House survive with the owner looking to convert to homes?
4500 EZY jobs - will they continue with their new HQ?
MAL / MAEL gone completely in 2017-2019 and no replacement
Gulfstream moving to FAB
New WZZ UK AOC, but many crews based overseas?
The terminal expansion has helped somewhat, but apart from temporary construction jobs, these are few and far better bar the minimum wage paying occupations. It's a sorry sight.
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PilotLZ
Not completely sure about that. Evolution also means adapting to changes and hence changing habits and behaviors in order to survive the new scenarios. People will resume traveling in big numbers once they will be satisfied that it is perfectly safe to do so from an healthcare point of view. As for business travel, smart working has proven to be very effective in those past 3 months so I don’t really see why somebody would want to seat around a table to discuss important matters when it is feasible by using a webcam and wearing a jacket and your underwear. That is my opinion in the short-medium range. I hope we will get soon rid of that crap of a virus to go back to normal human interactions of course.
Not completely sure about that. Evolution also means adapting to changes and hence changing habits and behaviors in order to survive the new scenarios. People will resume traveling in big numbers once they will be satisfied that it is perfectly safe to do so from an healthcare point of view. As for business travel, smart working has proven to be very effective in those past 3 months so I don’t really see why somebody would want to seat around a table to discuss important matters when it is feasible by using a webcam and wearing a jacket and your underwear. That is my opinion in the short-medium range. I hope we will get soon rid of that crap of a virus to go back to normal human interactions of course.
krismiler
But the question is what sort of break would it be? If it's likely to be one with lots of restrictions then it may end up being a fairly joyless one and who wants to pay for that? Personally I'm inclined to wait for next year when I'll have a better idea of what the new normal is likely to be in terms of hassle and restrictions on what was previously possible.
But the question is what sort of break would it be? If it's likely to be one with lots of restrictions then it may end up being a fairly joyless one and who wants to pay for that? Personally I'm inclined to wait for next year when I'll have a better idea of what the new normal is likely to be in terms of hassle and restrictions on what was previously possible.
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I have no doubt that in time peple will start to fly again in numbers, but it's not going to be any time soon. Yes things will become 'normal' again but it will be a different normal. Many airlines will cease to exist. Many experienced people will find themselves out of a job. Management of the airlines that survive and the new ones that emerge will have a completely differnt idea of how much they need to pay people.
What is an experienced jet captain with no other significant skill set going to do if he's offered 40 or 50k a year rather than the 100k he might have had before, when the alternative is 20k driving a bus? especially when he knows there are another thousand waiting behind him? This could become the normality.
I am old enough to remember being taken on for my first commercial job, and having my type rating and all other requirements, wet drills, fire/smoke etc etc etc paid for. All the while on full pay, allowances etc. Slowly people started accepting less and less and ended up with reduced or no salary, paying for type ratings, paying to fly etc. This became the new normal before Covid-19.
Sad as it is, the reality I fear is for a new base line. This will be an employers market for a significant (years) time to come.
Good luck to all.
What is an experienced jet captain with no other significant skill set going to do if he's offered 40 or 50k a year rather than the 100k he might have had before, when the alternative is 20k driving a bus? especially when he knows there are another thousand waiting behind him? This could become the normality.
I am old enough to remember being taken on for my first commercial job, and having my type rating and all other requirements, wet drills, fire/smoke etc etc etc paid for. All the while on full pay, allowances etc. Slowly people started accepting less and less and ended up with reduced or no salary, paying for type ratings, paying to fly etc. This became the new normal before Covid-19.
Sad as it is, the reality I fear is for a new base line. This will be an employers market for a significant (years) time to come.
Good luck to all.
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I agree completely with the post above unfortunately.
Pilot pay has always been something of an anomaly, considering that the bar for entry into the profession is extremely low (no qualifications required) and entry level job opportunities are always vastly oversubscribed.
This is the opportunity airline management has been waiting for to ‘correct’ pilot salaries.
Pilot pay has always been something of an anomaly, considering that the bar for entry into the profession is extremely low (no qualifications required) and entry level job opportunities are always vastly oversubscribed.
This is the opportunity airline management has been waiting for to ‘correct’ pilot salaries.
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My 2p worth.
I remember 9/11, I remember it well. Flying stopped and everyone was terrified. Video conferencing was the new norm and getting on an aeroplane for leisure was too risky. Demand dried up. Then companies noticed that sales were slow and face to face contact was quite important to do business. Video conferencing faded and we returned to business travel like before and more. Leisure? Too scary unless it's £9.99 a seat then suddenly safety concerns fade and we slowly discover that it isn't that dangerous, partly because of new security measures and partly because the risk is lower than we first think. We returned to leisure travel like before and more.
So when we slowly get back in the air and it looks safe, partly because we have taken precautions and partly because the risk is probably lower than we first think then we'll forget the scare stories and get out there. It might take a month or so of £9.99 tickets but we'll get out there.
I reckon it's not an if but a when.
As for our employment terms, they're pretty s**te already. If they offer £50K to captain 250 tonnes of 550mph craft without a lay-by or traffic light in sight then I'd go and drive a train for £67k. Or ask my 911 driving IFA how difficult his exams are. just sayin'
I remember 9/11, I remember it well. Flying stopped and everyone was terrified. Video conferencing was the new norm and getting on an aeroplane for leisure was too risky. Demand dried up. Then companies noticed that sales were slow and face to face contact was quite important to do business. Video conferencing faded and we returned to business travel like before and more. Leisure? Too scary unless it's £9.99 a seat then suddenly safety concerns fade and we slowly discover that it isn't that dangerous, partly because of new security measures and partly because the risk is lower than we first think. We returned to leisure travel like before and more.
So when we slowly get back in the air and it looks safe, partly because we have taken precautions and partly because the risk is probably lower than we first think then we'll forget the scare stories and get out there. It might take a month or so of £9.99 tickets but we'll get out there.
I reckon it's not an if but a when.
As for our employment terms, they're pretty s**te already. If they offer £50K to captain 250 tonnes of 550mph craft without a lay-by or traffic light in sight then I'd go and drive a train for £67k. Or ask my 911 driving IFA how difficult his exams are. just sayin'
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Business travel cannot be eradicated by technology. There's still no technology to replace face-to-face contact for some of the most important negotiations. It's been a long while since routine work has been brought online and nobody travels to the other end of the world just to put their signature on a piece of paper. Fax and telex were widely available a good 20 years ago, now there are far more advanced versions of them for sending routine paperwork to and fro. Quick progress meetings to catch up on an already running project can also happen by Zoom. But the most important part of it, those 10% of effort that end up sealing 90% of the big deal, still require personal contact and networking - and they always will. All those important talks are something far beyond discussing an agenda by Zoom. They are what happens over dinner, in the coffee break, in the elevator. You can't form the same bond over videoconferencing.
As for leisure travel, people's memories of bad things tend to be rather short. As long as there is no external threat in the form of a looming health crisis and no restrictions exist for free travel, things will pick up. Some of our colleagues will inevitably get on the wrong side of 65. Others will decide to call it a day for other reasons. Some will perhaps successfully reinvent themselves and not go back into flying even if given the chance later on. So, there will be an end to the dogfight for every single job and for the readiness to accept any T&Cs for the sake of staying in the saddle. Ever since aviation exists, there has always been a rise after the fall - and I have no reason to believe that this time it will be different.
As for leisure travel, people's memories of bad things tend to be rather short. As long as there is no external threat in the form of a looming health crisis and no restrictions exist for free travel, things will pick up. Some of our colleagues will inevitably get on the wrong side of 65. Others will decide to call it a day for other reasons. Some will perhaps successfully reinvent themselves and not go back into flying even if given the chance later on. So, there will be an end to the dogfight for every single job and for the readiness to accept any T&Cs for the sake of staying in the saddle. Ever since aviation exists, there has always been a rise after the fall - and I have no reason to believe that this time it will be different.
1982 - World recession.
1991 - Gulf War
2001 - World Trade Centre
2008 - Global Financial Crisis
2020 - COVID - 19
Going by past events we were due for something about this time anyway. Aviation always recovered afterwards even if it took a couple of years. I’m just hoping that the next big downer will be after I’ve retired.
It’s reasonably safe to say that we’re over the worst now, there is definitely light at the end of the tunnel and whilst the road to recovery may be difficult at least we are on it. Until/unless there is a vaccine there will be a different normal, but we will adapt.
1991 - Gulf War
2001 - World Trade Centre
2008 - Global Financial Crisis
2020 - COVID - 19
Going by past events we were due for something about this time anyway. Aviation always recovered afterwards even if it took a couple of years. I’m just hoping that the next big downer will be after I’ve retired.
It’s reasonably safe to say that we’re over the worst now, there is definitely light at the end of the tunnel and whilst the road to recovery may be difficult at least we are on it. Until/unless there is a vaccine there will be a different normal, but we will adapt.
I fully agree with the rest of the post but just as a point of order I’d edit number 2 to 9/11 attacks personally. I’m not normally a stickler (or very woke!) for these things but just saying World Trade Center when a couple of hundred also died in Washington and Shanksville as a result of AA77 and UA93 is a smidge disrespectful to those victims. 
Last edited by Plastic787; 31st May 2020 at 10:37.
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Indeed, this also seems a lot more accurate to me. This is "the big one". Look at the USA, these are not "normal" times but dare I say it revolutionary ones with extreme polarisation.
Sure, some low cost airlines will survive and certainly the ultra low cost ones like Wizz Air may actually take advantage, but that is only because it is a further race to the bottom.
Sure, some low cost airlines will survive and certainly the ultra low cost ones like Wizz Air may actually take advantage, but that is only because it is a further race to the bottom.
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bbc news-
EasyJet hopes to reopen 75% of route network by August
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52892397
EasyJet hopes to reopen 75% of route network by August
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52892397
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Potential Mass HQ easyJet Redundancies
So I have heard easyJet are currently in consultation with of all the HQ staff, the area which will most likely affect everyone on here is being massively cut.
The ICC (Ops Centre) is being chopped, so no more crewing assistants, the crewing team will loose 13 crewing officers. Ops will be down 9 people and the same goes for disruption.
To add to this crewing will now have to deal with Training Delivery.
I dread to think what the call time will be like if easyJet do operate them 300 aircraft in the next year.....
The ICC (Ops Centre) is being chopped, so no more crewing assistants, the crewing team will loose 13 crewing officers. Ops will be down 9 people and the same goes for disruption.
To add to this crewing will now have to deal with Training Delivery.
I dread to think what the call time will be like if easyJet do operate them 300 aircraft in the next year.....
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Some EZY flights operating from Gatwick today.
CNN reporter highlighting how quiet the field is otherwise - “considering it has one of the biggest, if not the biggest runway in the world”.
Wow, must have missed that...
CNN reporter highlighting how quiet the field is otherwise - “considering it has one of the biggest, if not the biggest runway in the world”.
Wow, must have missed that...