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A New Age In Tís & Cís

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A New Age In Tís & Cís

Old 15th May 2020, 10:21
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by the_stranger View Post
Haven't got a clue what a bang seat is, but would those masks perhaps included oxygen, microphone and certification as well as rigorous training?
I believe a bang seat is a seat that emits a "bang" if you pull a specific handle or it could also be a seat that helps you "bang" by telling your war stories to ladies (or gents depending on taste).
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Old 15th May 2020, 13:25
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sonicbum View Post
I believe a bang seat is a seat that emits a "bang" if you pull a specific handle or it could also be a seat that helps you "bang" by telling your war stories to ladies (or gents depending on taste).
The cockpit seats on some Fokker 50s made a sort of bang sound when the adjustment lever was used. Can't 'member a mask attached.


Maybe more of a crunch or creak though, it has been a while ago...
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Old 16th May 2020, 06:58
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by the_stranger View Post
The cockpit seats on some Fokker 50s made a sort of bang sound when the adjustment lever was used. Can't 'member a mask attached.


Maybe more of a crunch or creak though, it has been a while ago...
bang, as in ďbang outĒ...to eject.
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Old 16th May 2020, 07:26
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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You can't cheat economics, as said before it's simple supply and demand.

Whether you decide to save everyone's job or whether you decide to job share terms and conditions will come down.

Now for a few, these terms and conditions in the future will eventually come back to some a degree or another.

But for the masses I don't believe as a pilot you will see great terms for a very long time.

There will be a mass load of pilots on the market, and very few jobs to go around. Furthermore this virus won't just disappear, no drugs are significantly working and vaccine is months / years off, which means with reduced travel, holidays abroad there is probably still a good chance of other airlines still going bust, leaving even more pilots unemployed.

Now born out of every crisis there is likey to be new startup companies to suck up pilots / crew etc. But these startup companies are more likely to follow a Ryanair type of employment, whereby you will be on a zero hour contract, and have to pay for training. And there will be an abundance of pilots signing up to these daft contracts a, ready to shaft one another to see how low they can go. Let's face it, they were doing it in the good times, so they are certainly going to do it in the bad times!

Also soon as there is a glimmer of hope on the horozion of improvement in the job market, your likely to see mentored pilot schemes starting to pop up. Why because it is a fantastic revenue source for training organisations and the airlines. When this improvement happens will these newbie pilots be required, I would say not due to the surplus of pilots on the market, but these schemes will still go ahead, wherby a pilot who is unemployed, will loose a potential job to a newbie, who is strictly probably not required at that time.

If future pilots can not get an employment contract or their training paid what hope have you got for proper terms and conditions in the future.

In order to change things the supply needs to be changed. As I said before one way to change the supply is change hrs required to fly a jet, hrs to become captain, increase age to fly passengers etc. The other thing that's needs to be done is stop these zero hour contracts. If these were stopped there would more of a level playing field wherby other pilots can not undercut other pilots by signing up to dodgy companies.

That said for these things to change, there has to be a change in the law / regulations and I doubt very much that will happen hence why there will not be an improvement in working conditions.

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Old 16th May 2020, 07:45
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DrJones View Post
Furthermore this virus won't just disappear, no drugs are significantly working and vaccine is months / years off, which means with reduced travel, holidays abroad there is probably still a good chance of other airlines still going bust, leaving even more pilots unemployed.
From what I've read, it is 50/50 at best whether an effective vaccine will ever be found. The Chief Medical Officer said in one of the daily briefings that a vaccine may never be found. Unless governments start aggressively promoting the reality of the situation, that this is a virus which overwhelmingly leads to mild or no symptoms whatsoever, then aviation is finished, along with society as we know it.
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Old 16th May 2020, 08:43
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by guy_incognito View Post
Unless governments start aggressively promoting the reality of the situation, that this is a virus which overwhelmingly leads to mild or no symptoms whatsoever, then aviation is finished, along with society as we know it.
And the 300k plus deaths due to covid are in fact attributed to chemtrails ?
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Old 16th May 2020, 08:56
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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Even if every single one of those 300k deaths is a direct result of Covid-19 (which isn't the case), it accounts for 0.004% of the world's population. Malaria kills 400k+ people a year. HIV does for around one million. Flu accounts for (according to the WHO, if you can believe anything they say), 250k to 650k depending on the severity of the strain.

The point is that the severity of Covid-19 simply doesn't justify the hysterical reaction.
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Old 16th May 2020, 09:05
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by the_stranger View Post
The cockpit seats on some Fokker 50s made a sort of bang sound when the adjustment lever was used. Can't 'member a mask attached.


Maybe more of a crunch or creak though, it has been a while ago...
I can't really remember much of a 'bang' from the Fokker 50's seat, but you could get one from the J41's seat if you pulled the handle to adjust the height without holding your weight with you feet ant legs: the 'bang' was when your seat hit the floor! It was a great one to use on unsuspecting FO's in the middle of their PA -- reach across and pull his/her seat's height adjusting handle and they would drop to the floor with a startled 'bang'! One of the older and wiser FOs that I flew with would always position the metal-clad tech log next to his seat so that if I tried that I would probably have my fingers chopped off!! (Sadly he won't be able to read this but John was great to fly with!)

Another similar story about a 'bang' to the floor, in an aeroplane with masks and all. Someone that I knew (let's call him Ian) who once flew Vampires (the ones with no ejection seats, just the old 'sit on' parachute). He was leading a pair on a 'run and break' on their return to the airfield. He pulled really hard on the 'break'. The pins holding his seat-height in place sheared, with his seat dropping down its runners to the floor with a 'bang' and the extra jolt causing him temporarily to black out. he came to going skywards sitting on the floor, so he levelled off on instruments. His wing-man was startled at his 'trajectory' and called to ATC that he was going to catch up and find out what was going on. As his wing-man caught up Ian head his memorable call to ATC "There's no-one inside!"!! Ian then grabbed the bottom on the canopy to pull himself up and peer over the edge to see his wing-man, to be told later that is was a most memorable "Kilroy was here" fingers with a helmeted and masked face that appeared looking 'over the wall' out of the aeroplane!! (The recovery landing was apparently done with the wing-man 'talking him down' to short final where he 'stood' up and did a rudderless landing...)

Apologies for going off topic, but these stories need to be told...

DrJones, I don't think that many of your 'solutions' are likely ever to happen, but I do agree with you forecast of outcomes. Your first sentence says it all. Hence the need for pilots to work together to ensure that as many of them stay in employment as long as possible (in more ways that one), regardless of what income might be for the next while, to ensure that as many as possible are still able to benefit from any pick-up once this problem is over.

(I also think that your 'market forces' will do away with a lot of the expensive 'get a licence quick' and pay for type-ratings concepts: who would want to plan to go into this industry with any huge debt when it has now been clearly shown that everything could go over a cliff-edge in a matter of weeks.)


guy, I'm not quite so doom-and-gloom about the need for a vaccine. The Deputy Chief Medical Officer recently pointed out that the world is living with, and managing, many deadly diseases (she quoted that only smallpox has been eradicated, all the others are still out there). Not everything has come to a grinding halt because of them. Some genuine management of this one at source could have avoided us all needing such dramatic management of it now. But we will get there, vaccine or not.
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Old 16th May 2020, 09:49
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post
guy, I'm not quite so doom-and-gloom about the need for a vaccine. The Deputy Chief Medical Officer recently pointed out that the world is living with, and managing, many deadly diseases (she quoted that only smallpox has been eradicated, all the others are still out there). Not everything has come to a grinding halt because of them. Some genuine management of this one at source could have avoided us all needing such dramatic management of it now. But we will get there, vaccine or not.
I agree with you! I don't think a vaccine is the holy grail. I think that if the government message had been sensible from the beginning and they'd made it absolutely clear that this was basically a mild infection for the vast majority rather than scaring the hell out of the population with the hectoring "Stay home, protect the NHS, Save Lives" nonsense, we wouldn't be in this mess and we would just be getting on with it.
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Old 16th May 2020, 14:56
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by guy_incognito View Post
Even if every single one of those 300k deaths is a direct result of Covid-19 (which isn't the case), it accounts for 0.004% of the world's population. Malaria kills 400k+ people a year. HIV does for around one million. Flu accounts for (according to the WHO, if you can believe anything they say), 250k to 650k depending on the severity of the strain.

The point is that the severity of Covid-19 simply doesn't justify the hysterical reaction.
309k people have died of Covid from the 22nd of January to date (so less than 4 months) and half of these 4 months have been spent on quarantine by most of the countries world wide. I am not a doctor and/or an epidemiologist but I guess that if nothing had been done we would be talking of numbers 3,4,5 or maybe 10 times higher than these. The majority of these 300k deaths were either elderly people or people with other diseases BUT they were living a normal life with all the treatments that modern medicine and science can provide, allowing them to have a longer life expectancy till they hit the Cov2. I would be happier than you are if we could all be proven of overreacting to this disease, but only time will tell and in the mean time we have to play it safe.
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Old 17th May 2020, 08:17
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sonicbum View Post
309k people have died of Covid from the 22nd of January to date (so less than 4 months) and half of these 4 months have been spent on quarantine by most of the countries world wide. I am not a doctor and/or an epidemiologist but I guess that if nothing had been done we would be talking of numbers 3,4,5 or maybe 10 times higher than these.
Plenty of literature is now emerging from those actual medical experts saying that the lockdowns have been largely unnecessary and have achieved very little (aside from trashing peopleís livelihoods of course). Of course from here unfortunately itís a face saving exercise and we know how important that is to politicians especially.
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Old 17th May 2020, 08:36
  #72 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by Plastic787 View Post
Plenty of literature is now emerging from those epidemiologists saying that the lockdowns have been largely unnecessary and have achieved very little (aside from trashing people’s livelihoods of course). Of course from here unfortunately it’s a face saving exercise and we know how important that is to politicians especially.
Typically they say lethality is not what the worst case predicted (hint: there is a reason it's called the worst case scenario) and the health system managed to cope. So far I understood the reason behind the restrictions was to slow down the spread so that the health system would cope and lethality could be controlled.

Besides, those people be they right or wrong are given a channel to voice their opinion via media. That media who every single day need a story more shocking than yesterday's to make ends meet.

My best take is the very same information scavengers and their pimping editors who were chasing ambulances 2 month ago, singing praises for nurses and doctors 4weeks ago, who are putting braveheart alternate opinions into the spotlight right now.

Are the facts being reported true? Probably yes. Is the overall picture one of selective reporting, showing a malinformed reflection on reality? Most definitely so.


Last edited by FlightDetent; 17th May 2020 at 21:01.
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Old 17th May 2020, 19:56
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Plastic787 View Post
Plenty of literature is now emerging from those actual medical experts saying that the lockdowns have been largely unnecessary and have achieved very little (aside from trashing peopleís livelihoods of course). Of course from here unfortunately itís a face saving exercise and we know how important that is to politicians especially.
I find this argument hard to believe and most alleged proof of this that Iíve seen seems very thin. Without a lockdown hospitals would have been completely overwhelmed.
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Old 17th May 2020, 20:39
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by vlieger View Post
I find this argument hard to believe and most alleged proof of this that Iíve seen seems very thin. Without a lockdown hospitals would have been completely overwhelmed.
National ICU bed usage didnt exceed 60% in the UK. We were a long way off, plus, ICU capacity was significantly increased, probably one of the success stories from all of this. There were individual hospitals close to breaking, but thats why the military were ready on standby to fly cases to where capacity was available from the capital.
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Old 18th May 2020, 00:32
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VinRouge View Post
National ICU bed usage didnt exceed 60% in the UK. We were a long way off, plus, ICU capacity was significantly increased, probably one of the success stories from all of this. There were individual hospitals close to breaking, but thats why the military were ready on standby to fly cases to where capacity was available from the capital.
I feel like lockdown has really acted as a giant slap in the face to everyone (well, the VAST majority that are following it or trying thier best), basically that all of this really does matter and you should be concerned with hygiene, don't visit your gran, limit opportunity for the virus to spread. Obviously this effect will wain so after an easing, a step up of measures might have to happen to remind people of what's at stake. I've been clinical with it all over the last THREE months as I realise that if I dont do my best, I won't feel like I did everything I could if the worst comes and my job security comes into explicit question. I'm sure that principle (fear) guides a lot of us in other industries too.

I am now happy for restrictions to be eased as I think that in general, people have learned the lesson. I don't think that the government did things vaguely well initially but for me, Stay Alert is a sensible message at this point of time. Schools should certainly be going back with sensible measures and gentle steps. It does annoy me though, I am 32 and have a lot of teacher friends of the same age on facebook etc, so many of them seem publically outraged that they're being sent back into the breach when frankly I cant think of one who could really consider themselves as vunerable. I know they're working their asses off running classes from home, but that's only part of what education does and many parents bluntly don't give a crap.
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Old 18th May 2020, 09:19
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by guy_incognito View Post
Even if every single one of those 300k deaths is a direct result of Covid-19 (which isn't the case), it accounts for 0.004% of the world's population. Malaria kills 400k+ people a year. HIV does for around one million. Flu accounts for (according to the WHO, if you can believe anything they say), 250k to 650k depending on the severity of the strain.

The point is that the severity of Covid-19 simply doesn't justify the hysterical reaction.
This is what I said when this all started.

Keep calm, take daily multi-vitamins and minerals, (so your immune system has all the resources it needs to be as strong as it can be), and be considerate and sensible. Those at risk should self isolate. My 80+ Uncle and Aunt both had Covid19 and both have recovered without staying in hospital.

However, a former colleague who had cancer, had her chemotherapy stopped because the hospital she attended concentrated on Covid19. She recently died.
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Old 20th May 2020, 07:21
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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Being frustrated with the circumstances is understandable. But be careful about simplifying too much and using statistic in one context only. I was sceptical about this at the outset. But this 'thing' has now 'murdered' three times the number of people in the UK in the space of two moths than the estimates for the worst flu season had done in the past two or so decades. (And then there are the additional sad cases, such as mentioned by uplinker.) The Deputy Chief Medical Officer (a specialist in influenza infection) stated recently that the sum total of human knowledge of this virus in humans has been over five months. Two months ago, when dramatic decisions were being made, that sum total was three months. So for myself, my scepticism has reduced massively. This is bad. We are not the only country that has suffered. In others the lockdown has been more harsh (I have seen it) and no doubt the economic recovery is going to be more difficult elsewhere. We are where we are and I do not want to be an armchair specialist saying 'we should have...', this entire situation has been unique. We need to get on with what we can. With hopefully as many pilots in employment as possible.

However, my purchase choices from now on always start with the country of manufacture being the primary 'filter'.
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Old 21st May 2020, 13:54
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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Covid 19 is now the second deadliest infectious disease in the world by the number of daily deaths, just short of tuberculosis, and before malaria and HIV. "Just a flu"...
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