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Seniority

Old 21st Oct 2019, 08:17
  #141 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: At Home
Posts: 298
Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post
Saying that "I want a seniority system" but then saying that "In case of redundancy I'll be fine because there are lots of non-seniority airlines out there" does appear to be a whole lot less of a 'fair play' attitude than I am used to from Kiwis!
The point was, there's a place for both and Pilots are free to choose Seniority or otherwise when deciding where they want to work. Don't moan about Airline X being Seniority based, take a DEC somewhere else. Seniority has it's place.

Over the years I've encountered plenty of Pilots who decided staying in New Zealand was for chumps, and "real Pilots" head overseas to Cathay, Emirates and the like. Plenty of them on these forums love to have a dig at Air NZ/QF from time to time. Now that the grass isn't so green however, they complain about Seniority being outdated and they'd come home if they could but Air NZ won't give them a 777 DEC. The irony of course, is these forums are full of expats warning others "don't come here!" but if we opened up DEC's and removed seniority, many of us would have to go there or face being career FO's. There just aren't that many Jobs here so I'm thankful we're protected by Seniority... Retirements are forecast to increase to around 30 per year at Air NZ. Without Seniority, those WB Commands would be farmed out to the lowest bidding expat.

In Europe however, as I said in an earlier post, I can see how Seniority could be more detrimental than beneficial. The industry seems far less stable there with fluctuating T's & C's so I can see why Pilots would want more freedom to move.

My comment about "plenty of non-seniority based Airlines" referred to contracting jobs in Asia... as that's where most guys end up if they're hard up for work (and have Jet Time). Many being 5 years with the option to renew. Certainly not my first choice, but better than unemployment. Weighing up the Pro's and Con's of Seniority and the likelihood I find myself in that position, I'll take my chances with Seniority.
ElZilcho is offline  
Old 21st Oct 2019, 09:44
  #142 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: not radlett
Posts: 6
Most of the airlines I would want to work for do have seniority.

Most of the airlines I don't particularly want to work for don't.
radlettrejoin is offline  
Old 21st Oct 2019, 12:19
  #143 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: LFPG
Posts: 27
To all those suggesting if you can't get a promotion/roster you like at one company just resign and move across and up to another like in other private industries there's one big problem with that way of thinking when it comes to aviation verses other private industries;

If i were an engineer in my home city, I'd have a choice of 100+ companies I could have compete against each other for my services, if I were a lawyer there are about 20 big law firms here, a doctor there are 6 big hospitals and a further 12 private hospitals to try get my promotion from, a HR manager there are thousands of companies to chose from, fine, compete against each other.

However, there are just 2 large airlines based in my city, and that's unique as well for an airport to have two large based carriers, so this "If you want a promotion just move like they do in private industry" argument really falls short in this case, I don't want to move my family to another country, where they don't speak the same language, to have to take my kids out of school, make a whole new circle of friends and neighbours etc, so realistically I'm left with only 2 choices of where to work in my home city/country, not 200+, and one of them is certainly less desirable.

So I want to know that I can join an airline, keep my head down, work what I'm rostered and not feel obliged to come in on free days, not go fatigued, work into discretion (ie. actually enjoy the T&Cs that people have fought for), I can pass my command course and when a space opens up I know I won't be overlooked by some company man, chief pilot's friend from the military or some external "Hot Shot", I've proven myself capable of meeting their command criteria, as will 95% of pilots, so what else is fair for determining when one should get their command against 200 other command-approved co-pilots?
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