British airways pension to close.
BA for years have had an SOP of always, always pleading poverty when the employees want or need anything, but I'm darned sure there's at least some more money to be had, maybe not for a complete restoration of NAPS, but there's certainly room for improvement on BAs proposals, without any need for any magic.
In many ways BA is a bit like Alitalia - its employees wanting more (which anyone is entitled to ask for) but working in a business that simply cannot afford it.
One day, BA will go bankrupt like so many British companies, simply because its staff refuse to accept the reality that the world changes every single day and for many roles, it frankly doesnt take much education or skill to do the job and so people are easily replaceable.
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Stormin norman - probably better off keeping that scotch instead of drinking it, although having a large one does sound good! A decent bottle unopened left in the attic for a few years will gain value as the supply of that drop drys up. Theres a Massive demand for quality scotch and is getting bigger all the time. Hard not to drink a good bottle though and need a few in the attic to really make money, but just knowing you have a rare bottle of 50 year old to drink when your pension fails you is comforting.
That would be sensible if BA had been a successful, profitable airline forthe last decade, without the demands for change. The sad fact is that BA only cane out of the red after making the necessary changes.
In many ways BA is a bit like Alitalia - its employees wanting more (which anyone is entitled to ask for) but working in a business that simply cannot afford it.
One day, BA will go bankrupt like so many British companies, simply because its staff refuse to accept the reality that the world changes every single day and for many roles, it frankly doesnt take much education or skill to do the job and so people are easily replaceable.
In many ways BA is a bit like Alitalia - its employees wanting more (which anyone is entitled to ask for) but working in a business that simply cannot afford it.
One day, BA will go bankrupt like so many British companies, simply because its staff refuse to accept the reality that the world changes every single day and for many roles, it frankly doesnt take much education or skill to do the job and so people are easily replaceable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britis...usiness_trends
Last ten years profits are pretty damn good.
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GrahamO.......really? Years of command experience is easily replaceable? The facts are that BA for pilots on the 34pps is little different and and some cases considerably less than our low cost competitors at early stages of your career and just about comparable overall. Friends of mine in the LCC earn more for the same roll than I currently do.
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According to this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britis...usiness_trends
Last ten years profits are pretty damn good.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britis...usiness_trends
Last ten years profits are pretty damn good.
How many tens of thousands of pilots are there ? Yes, pilots have some platform unique training, but there are still a lot of pilots around and there are plenty of people who want to do the job.
How many hundreds of thousands of cabin crew are there ? How easy is it to train and replace one ? Does it take a degree and four years education before they start crew training - No. Could you take someone out of a cafe and train them in a few weeks - yes. Sorry folks but cabin crew are a commodity these days.
Yes, easily replaceable - I understand why people here don't like that as it suggest they are not as special as they think they are.
How many hundreds of thousands of cabin crew are there ? How easy is it to train and replace one ? Does it take a degree and four years education before they start crew training - No. Could you take someone out of a cafe and train them in a few weeks - yes. Sorry folks but cabin crew are a commodity these days.
Yes, easily replaceable - I understand why people here don't like that as it suggest they are not as special as they think they are.
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Originally Posted by GrahamO
How many tens of thousands of pilots are there ? Yes, pilots have some platform unique training, but there are still a lot of pilots around and there are plenty of people who want to do the job.
10.1.25 The probability that any particular person shall ever be qualified for
the employment to which he is educated, is very different in different occupations.
In the greater part of mechanic trades, success is almost certain; but very
uncertain in the liberal professions. Put your son apprentice to a shoemaker,
there is little doubt of his learning to make a pair of shoes: But send him
to study the law, it is at least twenty to one if ever he makes such proficiency
as will enable him to live by the business. In a perfectly fair lottery, those
who draw the prizes ought to gain all that is lost by those who draw the blanks.
In a profession where twenty fail for one that succeeds, that one ought to
gain all that should have been gained by the unsuccessful twenty. The
counsellor at law who, perhaps, at near forty years of age, begins to
make something by his profession, ought to receive the retribution, not only
of his own so tedious and expensive education, but of that of more than
twenty others who are never likely to make any thing by it.
How extravagant soever the fees of counsellors at law may sometimes
appear, their real retribution is never equal to this.
the employment to which he is educated, is very different in different occupations.
In the greater part of mechanic trades, success is almost certain; but very
uncertain in the liberal professions. Put your son apprentice to a shoemaker,
there is little doubt of his learning to make a pair of shoes: But send him
to study the law, it is at least twenty to one if ever he makes such proficiency
as will enable him to live by the business. In a perfectly fair lottery, those
who draw the prizes ought to gain all that is lost by those who draw the blanks.
In a profession where twenty fail for one that succeeds, that one ought to
gain all that should have been gained by the unsuccessful twenty. The
counsellor at law who, perhaps, at near forty years of age, begins to
make something by his profession, ought to receive the retribution, not only
of his own so tedious and expensive education, but of that of more than
twenty others who are never likely to make any thing by it.
How extravagant soever the fees of counsellors at law may sometimes
appear, their real retribution is never equal to this.
POTENTIAL SAFETY RISKS CAUSED BY PILOT SHORTAGE, SECOND HIGH-LEVEL SAFETY CONFERENCE 2015 (HLSC 2015) PLANNING FOR GLOBAL AVIATION SAFETY IMPROVEMENT
1.3 High cost of pilot license, entry-level low wages and reduced career interest. For many students the cost of obtaining the license is a challenge and the low wages for job entry-level pilots (e.g., approximately $22 400 in the United States) is a deterrent when faced with the perspective of having to repay the substantial debt incurred to obtain the license, which may be well in excess of $100 000. Furthermore, other industries (e.g., IT, medicine, banking, etc.) are more appealing to younger generations than aviation.
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Morning all,
I’ll just leave this here...
BA owner IAG predicts travel demand to fuel profit rise | Article [AMP] | Reuters
IAG operating profit up by over 20% in a single year and full year profits expected to be €3bn. All wonderful news of course but I hope BALPA and the other unions make the best of this info.
I’ll just leave this here...
BA owner IAG predicts travel demand to fuel profit rise | Article [AMP] | Reuters
IAG operating profit up by over 20% in a single year and full year profits expected to be €3bn. All wonderful news of course but I hope BALPA and the other unions make the best of this info.
It'll be Aer Lingus, on a 'pound-for-pound' basis. Obviously BA will make the most in an absolute sense but Aer Lingus are very lean and have an enviable profit margin going on at the minute.
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A quick look at the BA balance sheet is interesting.
Privatisation was a great way to offload a public liability to the private sector, with enough inducements the
floated. Ahh Maggie a gift to Empire!
With that done and dupes holding shares, it was a matter a demographics; BA has always looked to the finance community like a pension fund with an airline attached. Suspending belief in the reality that what can't be paid won't meant brokers traded the stock up and down.
IAG offers Willie (second cousin of Alan Joyce) cost base leverage. It will be interesting to see how it plays out, but sadly privatising profits and socialising losses is second nature to the corporate these days
Privatisation was a great way to offload a public liability to the private sector, with enough inducements the
floated. Ahh Maggie a gift to Empire!With that done and dupes holding shares, it was a matter a demographics; BA has always looked to the finance community like a pension fund with an airline attached. Suspending belief in the reality that what can't be paid won't meant brokers traded the stock up and down.
IAG offers Willie (second cousin of Alan Joyce) cost base leverage. It will be interesting to see how it plays out, but sadly privatising profits and socialising losses is second nature to the corporate these days
You have a very poor assessment of what good profit is - single digits with massive capital investment requirements so hardly somewhere to invest in, and you completely missed the point I made that such numbers are AFTER the changes which you object to. Look at the numbers in red and those are the world you want to live in, albeit for a short time before the P45.
Profit is profit. The accountants will do their thing and declared profits will reflect exactly the numbers required (assuming the revenue is there). I filled in a tax form this year which included a disposal of a taxable asset. It is amazing how little tax you need to pay when you read the 'rules'. Lewis Hamilton and the cast of Mrs Browns Boys have nothing on corporate tax avoidance!
A projected 3 Billion profit this year is obscene when cutting the pay of the employees who created that profit.
Oh, and I'm sure the leadership of BA /IAG will be handsomely rewarded for such record profits, along side the pension fund managers.
And people wonder why there is a resurgence in support for Corbyn's socialism.
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Can I ask. How is this influencing current pilots plans? Firstly, will people be postponing retirement a few more years? Are people less able to do part-time now?
Or do you see people leaving to the likes of China to fill the shortfall, as mentioned in a previous comment?
Or do you see people leaving to the likes of China to fill the shortfall, as mentioned in a previous comment?
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Turin - I can remember back in the late nineties I did a layover in Jo'burg, BA used the same hotel then, in Rosebank, I think. In the hotel at the same time as us was the first Hamble cadet to reach retirement age, (possibly 55?), if what we were told was true and not a wind up this Captain was retiring with 100K lump sum and an annual pension of around 80K. Does this mean that you are now going to have to make do with an annual pension of only 65K? 
Many of my colleagues a few years senior were in APS and their full career pensions were certainly 80k-110k range plus lump sum.
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Can I ask. How is this influencing current pilots plans? Firstly, will people be postponing retirement a few more years? Are people less able to do part-time now?
Or do you see people leaving to the likes of China to fill the shortfall, as mentioned in a previous comment?
Or do you see people leaving to the likes of China to fill the shortfall, as mentioned in a previous comment?
Watch the Budget this week to see what the next slap in the face will be for the fiscally prudent, then be very glad you aren't a 25 year old FO.
