British airways pension to close.

[wiggy]

DEsk-pilot

It is a fact that many long serving NAPS pilot members were retiring on pensions in excess of £100k p.a. at age 55.

As a long serving NAPS pilot member can I ask if you sure you have the right scheme? The training/lifestyle/pensions benefits you describe sounds awfully like that supposedly enjoyed by the "Hamsters" who were on APS (and best of luck to them).

I'm not sure but I suppose 100k p.a. might just perhaps be possible on NAPs for a select few (perhaps max AVCs, training/management pensionable pay scales) but I'd hazard an educated guess that it certainly isn't the norm, and guys certainly aren't bailing out at 55 looking at anything like that amount.

As an aside:

The truth is BA is making lower profits,

[The Mixmaster]

The truth is all IAG care about is shareholder value and increasing profit as they have done every year. Cost cutting is a big part of this and labour cost is always in their headlights. Have all NAPS members reached 1 million DB funding cap? If so, it makes no sense to continue scheme. If not then this is IAG transferring wealth from employee to shareholder as they are wont to do.

[Jet II]

Originally Posted by UAV689

This country is sleep walking into a huge disaster.

Rising house prices, generations of people that will be renters.

What happens to these renters when they retire. Many are on low paid work, with a pension that will pay about £100 a month..in 30 years i really do worry for what state this country will be. There will be millions on the bread line.

Meanwhile people will be flocking to shops later this week for the 'pleasure' of spending $1000 on a new iPhone......

[hunterboy]

Or signing up to a 24 month contract at £50/month to be able to join the iClub. Astounding.

[Skornogr4phy]

I'm sure people back in the day never spent a portion of their pay packet going to the pub, or buying the latest records etc. Not all money has to be spent purely on surviving (food, water, accommodation). If they'd rather spend their money on a phone rather than going down to the pub then so be it.

[Capewell]

Back in the day I spent most of my pay packet on ciggys, booze, women and music. The rest I just wasted...


I'll get my coat

[Jet II]

Originally Posted by Skornogr4phy

I'm sure people back in the day never spent a portion of their pay packet going to the pub, or buying the latest records etc. Not all money has to be spent purely on surviving (food, water, accommodation). If they'd rather spend their money on a phone rather than going down to the pub then so be it.

Of course they are perfectly entitled to spend their money as they wish - however then they shouldn't bitch 40 years later when they have no pension.

[The Mixmaster]

So having no pension is due to buying iPhones rather than management's relentless cost cutting?

[Jet II]

Your Pension is Your responsibility.

If you want to offload that responsibility to somebody else (be it management or the government) then you cant complain about what you get.

[The Mixmaster]

Actually a defined benefit pension is administered by Trustee's and it is they who hold the responsibility for day to day running of such a pension. DB pension law states that deficit is addressed via funding proposal from Trustee's or ultimately by the employer. IAG has multi billions in cash reserves, where do you think management want to deploy these cash reserves...pension for loyal, hard working employee's or maybe just maybe they are incentivised via bonuses to reduce employee cost!

[blimey]

Hammond's autumn budget might change the DB v DC argument considerably.

[qwertyuiop]

Please explain why you think this.

[Jet II]

Originally Posted by The Mixmaster

Actually a defined benefit pension is administered by Trustee's and it is they who hold the responsibility for day to day running of such a pension. DB pension law states that deficit is addressed via funding proposal from Trustee's or ultimately by the employer. IAG has multi billions in cash reserves, where do you think management want to deploy these cash reserves...pension for loyal, hard working employee's or maybe just maybe they are incentivised via bonuses to reduce employee cost!

There is no legal issue that stops IAG closing their DB pension, after all many other companies have already done so. In this day and age nobody should expect pension arrangements to remain cast in stone - FWIW I have a letter from the DWP stating that I have paid in enough years of contributions to get a full State Pension - well I had until the Government changed the rules and now I dont have enough years.

So its up to the individual to make sure that they have enough saved for a pension, nobody else. Instead of spending $1000 on new iphone buy a new android for $250 and invest the difference - you will then reap the benefits in years to come and you can still make phone calls in the meantime. .

[Trossie]

There will be millions on the bread line.

In global terms that will be an extremely affluent 'bread line'!

[The Mixmaster]

At same time Jet II, in this instance you have a company which announced 2 billion plus profits last year and cash reserves many multiples of that, closing a DB scheme which although in deficit is but a mere drop in the ocean compared to their balance sheet. DB Pension funds across the world are struggling mainly due to historically low interest rates post 2008/9. This will not always be the case. I question why a fellow pilot's sympathies lie more with a company who promotes shareholder value at the expense of its employee's rather than with his fellow professionals.

[Jet II]

As has already been pointed out, NAPS was closed to new entrants years ago - many BA staff are already on BARP so are on a less generous pension scheme. APS was the Golden age and there were plenty of complaints about them from those on NAPS - now the same is happening all over again.

So why should those staff on BARP accept less good pay rises simply to fund NAPS? - I was in NAPS and even I could defend that.

[The Mixmaster]

NAPS is/was still a DB scheme no? APS is long gone. Seems like company have successfully played the divide and conquer Card in BA via pension. Up to your Union representatives to not allow pay rises to be split along lines of pension schemes but it seems like they've fallen for it.

[blimey]

qwertyuiop

The annual increase in a DB pension is x 16 against an AA of £40k. Low/zero CPI. So lots of NAPSters are hit with a huge tax charge even with no additional input. A reduction in AA would mean an even bigger tax charge.

A reduction in tax relief would alter the balance between employee v employer inputs. High employee inputs (NAPS) would become less advantageous against the free money provided by an employer input (BARP 2).

Crunch the numbers after November.

Unfortunately, middle class pensions are a chancellor's cash cow.

[Snapper5]

Guessing there will be no strike action ? Just bend over and get a good shafting ?

[qwertyuiop]

Blimey..thanks