Easyjet Strike!
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easyJet employed exactly the same kind of strike breaking tactics in Lisbon.
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UK pilots refusing AMS duties in sympathy with AMS pilots are liable to disciplinary action for gross misconduct: i.e. Immediate dismissal.
http://blog.palmerslaw.co.uk/legal-n...pathy-strikes/
Jezza would like to repeal the law:
Jeremy Corbyn says he would lift the ban on workers going on 'sympathy strike' to support colleagues | UK Politics | News | The Independent
Some information on ‘The right To Strike’ – a study of national law in six EU states:
http://www.ier.org.uk/system/files/T...erspective.pdf
Page 80, The Netherlands - Page 97, The United Kingdom.
CEO master plans of using one airline division to break the strike by another are being applied. Can’t imagine where this is likely to happen next………
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The contract was appalling from day one, so why would anyone sign on to it in the first place ?
To expect sympathy for agreeing to such a contract in the first place is a little rich to say the least. To then become agitated about "foreigners" covering British registered aircraft is a little ironic.
To expect sympathy for agreeing to such a contract in the first place is a little rich to say the least. To then become agitated about "foreigners" covering British registered aircraft is a little ironic.
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It sounds like quite an extremely stressful experience for any crews brought in as strike-breakers. They are caught between supporting their fellow aircrew and legal penalties if they strike in sympathy.
Stress is an illness which is perfectly valid reason to be signed off sick. I wouldn't want to fly with stressed crew.
Stress is an illness which is perfectly valid reason to be signed off sick. I wouldn't want to fly with stressed crew.
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The contract was appalling from day one, so why would anyone sign on to it in the first place ?
Hindsight = 20/20 vision. I'm assuming the VNV are now involved as a strike has been balloted and declared. If the contract was so bad, and Netherlands based and subject to local law, I wonder if the VNV were involved Beforehand? If not, then surely BALPA would have been in the know?? If not, then surely they could have alerted their VNV colleagues?? Either way, in a union represented workforce, it does seem very out of touch not to have new T's & C's scrutinised first and avoid this debacle.
I hear that other 'overseas' contract are poor, i.e. Portugal, but are ez pilots represented by the Portuguese union? I believe they are in Germany and strong voices were heard in Berlin recently. Given ez is a union recognising company why would they not act proactively, as we pilots are taught to do in every day operations, and consult before the fat catches fire? It does seem some managers might be out of touch with the real world. At Schiphol there is enough similar competition to be able to make a comparison to T's & C's and foresee turbulent conditions or not. That's what I presume they do with ticket pricing so why not with employee contracts? They learnt the German unions are not labradors or pussy cats, why did they think the dutch would be any different.
We see/hear talks of strikes in many EU airlines now, and not the bottom leagues. Are pigeons coming home to roost?
Hindsight = 20/20 vision. I'm assuming the VNV are now involved as a strike has been balloted and declared. If the contract was so bad, and Netherlands based and subject to local law, I wonder if the VNV were involved Beforehand? If not, then surely BALPA would have been in the know?? If not, then surely they could have alerted their VNV colleagues?? Either way, in a union represented workforce, it does seem very out of touch not to have new T's & C's scrutinised first and avoid this debacle.
I hear that other 'overseas' contract are poor, i.e. Portugal, but are ez pilots represented by the Portuguese union? I believe they are in Germany and strong voices were heard in Berlin recently. Given ez is a union recognising company why would they not act proactively, as we pilots are taught to do in every day operations, and consult before the fat catches fire? It does seem some managers might be out of touch with the real world. At Schiphol there is enough similar competition to be able to make a comparison to T's & C's and foresee turbulent conditions or not. That's what I presume they do with ticket pricing so why not with employee contracts? They learnt the German unions are not labradors or pussy cats, why did they think the dutch would be any different.
We see/hear talks of strikes in many EU airlines now, and not the bottom leagues. Are pigeons coming home to roost?
) is only aiming to get rid of EZ at Schiphol.Thread Starter
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To expect sympathy for agreeing to such a contract in the first place is a little rich to say the least. To then become agitated about "foreigners" covering British registered aircraft is a little ironic.
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ps I guess that EJ from now have full time standby crews in the hotels in AMS waiting as the next strikes will not be announced in advance. I will not be booking the morning flights ex AMS for the foreseeable future 
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UK pilots refusing AMS duties in sympathy with AMS pilots are liable to disciplinary action for gross misconduct: i.e. Immediate dismissal.
Correct. “The European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) has upheld a UK law preventing so-called ‘sympathy strikes’, which have been banned by UK legislation since the early 1990’s”:
That might be an interesting one for the lawyers. How does UK law apply in a foreign country applied to a strike in a foreign country with local based crews acted upon by crews from UK? If I understand from the Dutch commentators on here the use, by UK crews, of Dutch based a/c to strike break would be contrary to NL law. In that case the UK crews would need to fly in UK based a/c. I know they are all UK reg', but not are all UK based.
It sounds like quite an extremely stressful experience for any crews brought in as strike-breakers. They are caught between supporting their fellow aircrew and legal penalties if they strike in sympathy.
Stress is an illness which is perfectly valid reason to be signed off sick. I wouldn't want to fly with stressed crew.
Every airline I've flown for has paid lip service in their recurrent training to the concept of not flying if under the affect of a close personal stress. In UK they have decent T's & C's. The colleagues in NL are striving for an improvement towards the same. You feel they are justified and sympathise and want to help, but can't. You are then forced, against your conscience, to attack their efforts at improving their lowly position and feel you are betraying them. It could cause anger towards the same person (employer) who is forcing you into this stressful position. That could be used as a sound defence to refuse to put yourself in such a scenario. It would be avoiding exactly the emotional stresses discussed in their own in-house recurrency training. How could any judge decide otherwise. It is not a provable item. It is self-reporting and has to be respected. Each individual would make that decision. If BALPA called for such collective action then that is open to legal redress, but individuals acting alone, another matter.
Correct. “The European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) has upheld a UK law preventing so-called ‘sympathy strikes’, which have been banned by UK legislation since the early 1990’s”:
That might be an interesting one for the lawyers. How does UK law apply in a foreign country applied to a strike in a foreign country with local based crews acted upon by crews from UK? If I understand from the Dutch commentators on here the use, by UK crews, of Dutch based a/c to strike break would be contrary to NL law. In that case the UK crews would need to fly in UK based a/c. I know they are all UK reg', but not are all UK based.
It sounds like quite an extremely stressful experience for any crews brought in as strike-breakers. They are caught between supporting their fellow aircrew and legal penalties if they strike in sympathy.
Stress is an illness which is perfectly valid reason to be signed off sick. I wouldn't want to fly with stressed crew.
Every airline I've flown for has paid lip service in their recurrent training to the concept of not flying if under the affect of a close personal stress. In UK they have decent T's & C's. The colleagues in NL are striving for an improvement towards the same. You feel they are justified and sympathise and want to help, but can't. You are then forced, against your conscience, to attack their efforts at improving their lowly position and feel you are betraying them. It could cause anger towards the same person (employer) who is forcing you into this stressful position. That could be used as a sound defence to refuse to put yourself in such a scenario. It would be avoiding exactly the emotional stresses discussed in their own in-house recurrency training. How could any judge decide otherwise. It is not a provable item. It is self-reporting and has to be respected. Each individual would make that decision. If BALPA called for such collective action then that is open to legal redress, but individuals acting alone, another matter.
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EZY making huge profit and offering 
T&C's to its pilots in AMS.....How wonderful! lets cheer for that and further erode our profession and conditions....
At least the "VNV clowns" are standing up for something.
Regarding "loss making KLM" , VNV cut pilots T&C's at KLM by 300 milion over the next 3 years to make the company viable again and help to adapt to economic reality.
United we stand, divided we fall guys..
T&C's to its pilots in AMS.....How wonderful! lets cheer for that and further erode our profession and conditions....At least the "VNV clowns" are standing up for something.
Regarding "loss making KLM" , VNV cut pilots T&C's at KLM by 300 milion over the next 3 years to make the company viable again and help to adapt to economic reality.
United we stand, divided we fall guys..
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Nobody forced the AMS based crews to sign the contract.
the only opportunity to go back to his home-country as an Airbus rated Capt.
If I follow your logic you have to be happy with below par pay within the same company and industry lowering terms in general once you signed?
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It is relevant that they decided that reduced terms and conditions were an acceptable compromise to go back to their home country as an airbus captain.
I find it unacceptable that this union recommend strike action when these pilots signed the contract in the first place. You could castigate ( the pilots) for accepting this poor contract and thus ensuring future European bases will only be crewed by people willing to accept reduced terms and conditions.
Talk about shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted.
I find it unacceptable that this union recommend strike action when these pilots signed the contract in the first place. You could castigate ( the pilots) for accepting this poor contract and thus ensuring future European bases will only be crewed by people willing to accept reduced terms and conditions.
Talk about shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted.
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Many Dutch pilots from other bases notably Milan, declined the opportunity to move back to AMS because of the poor terms on offer.
As the CEO declared when questioned " you don't have to accept the contract if you don't want to".
On that basis it's difficult to have sympathy with those who knew exactly what they were signing up for.....but it doesn't make it fair or ethical.
This divide and rule style is not what most of us signed up for...
As the CEO declared when questioned " you don't have to accept the contract if you don't want to".
On that basis it's difficult to have sympathy with those who knew exactly what they were signing up for.....but it doesn't make it fair or ethical.
This divide and rule style is not what most of us signed up for...
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When AMS opened BOTH easyJet and the future AMS pilots approached VNV to negotiate a collective labor agreement. The company made numerous promises but didn't keep them. This resulted in the strike which started two days a go.
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The company made numerous promises but didn't keep them.
That would suggest a quite different scenario. It has been said that if you sign a naff contract don't start bleating about it immediately afterwards. Fair enough. However, if you sign a contract based on certain promises, which are then not forthcoming, then that is a mater of principle, loss of trust, etc. That is quite a different matter and, if true, is akin to fraud: i.e. suckering you into something on false pretences. One should not take that lying down. There has been too much of that by too many airlines for too long. Pilots have been their own worse enemies. Management knows it's really a vocation, not a job, and are tempted to abuse that. But is it true about broken pledges, and how serious/critical and about what were those promises? To strike in protest would suggest something very serious.
That would suggest a quite different scenario. It has been said that if you sign a naff contract don't start bleating about it immediately afterwards. Fair enough. However, if you sign a contract based on certain promises, which are then not forthcoming, then that is a mater of principle, loss of trust, etc. That is quite a different matter and, if true, is akin to fraud: i.e. suckering you into something on false pretences. One should not take that lying down. There has been too much of that by too many airlines for too long. Pilots have been their own worse enemies. Management knows it's really a vocation, not a job, and are tempted to abuse that. But is it true about broken pledges, and how serious/critical and about what were those promises? To strike in protest would suggest something very serious.
Signing a contract with a company in 2016 based on some promises is nieve in the extreme especially with the track record of easyjet's industrial promises.
I think that notion was put to bed at least 25 years ago.
Management knows it's really a vocation, not a job
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Maybe we should all wake up. There will always besomeone due to circumstances that will need to sign on the line to get home but hey, you can't go out on strike for a company you don't work for.
The airlines have been playing dirty for years. Screwing pilots to the floor, unreasonable bonds and charges for ratings etc etc. They're almost an employer monopoly and they know it.
Grounding the planes is the only card pilots have to play that hurts airline management and we should have been playing it more often otherwise we will not be high in the list of financial priorities.
The airlines have been playing dirty for years. Screwing pilots to the floor, unreasonable bonds and charges for ratings etc etc. They're almost an employer monopoly and they know it.
Grounding the planes is the only card pilots have to play that hurts airline management and we should have been playing it more often otherwise we will not be high in the list of financial priorities.
