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NEW PMI Base for Norwegian

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NEW PMI Base for Norwegian

Old 10th Mar 2016, 14:29
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: The Shadows
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Question NEW PMI Base for Norwegian

I hear Norwegian just announced a new base in PMI, with reduced terms and pay for First Officers. Any details?
TheScarletPimpernel is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2016, 22:48
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Join Date: Oct 1999
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Time to command at norweigen?

Thanks pin
Pin Head is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2016, 12:56
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Naples, FL, USA
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The current set of upcoming upgrades joined during the summer of 2013. However if you joined now, you would be at the bottom of the seniority list and as such you would have to wait for the rest of the current fo's to upgrade first. And in the meantime you would probably be made redundant during the winter period. At least that's what happened to the fo's on the bottom of the seniority list during last two winters.
Good luck!
lear999wa is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2016, 16:20
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Not quite correct, current command upgrades include anything from K-area FO's willing to move to a Euro base for a command, to people who joined in the last big recruitment drive in May 2014, who were then laid off for the winter.

Yes, it is correct that if you joined now you would be at the bottom of the Master Seniority List and most likely be in for a long wait before getting your base of choice, and in the meantime quite possibly moved around the network a fair bit. Whether or not any layoffs will happen this year is anyone's guess, given the current pilot shortage.

Given the strict enforcement of the Master Seniority List though, unless you meet the requirements for command on joining, you'll be in for a long wait. If you have the required hours for command, 2 consecutive sims graded good or better are required and then you need to pass a quite tough command assessment, realistically expect 2 years. Oh yes, should anyone above you in the seniority list meet the minimum requirements in the meantime, you're out until there's a space for you given your seniority. The only reason people who joined recently are getting upgraded now is because they met all the requirements on joining.
november.sierra is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2016, 09:30
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Join Date: Nov 2010
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Norwegian's purported Master Seniority List:

Is there any reference to a Master Seniority List in any agency pilot contract with which Norwegian must comply?

Do agency pilots have any collective agreement regarding a Master Seniority List with which Norwegian must comply?

The answer to the above is:

Norwegian has no legal obligation whatsoever to follow any "Master Seniority List". Agency pilots may be upgraded (if qualified), furloughed and terminated entirely at the whim of Norwegian's questionable management.
Direct Bondi is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2016, 10:46
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Is all Norwegian's recruitment for FO's done through recruitment agencies or can you apply to them directly?
Helipilot1982 is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2016, 13:31
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Join Date: Apr 2002
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If memory serves me well no-one has joined Norwegian, to be directly employed from Day1 , since prior to the opening of the Helsinki base (Spring 2011 ? )

Since then , there have been a limited number of vacancies in "Core Norwegian" for FO positions in Scandinavia, these being filled by Contract pilots respecting date of joining & wish to transfer.

In the past you applied directly to Norwegian & were passed to one of the (at the time 4 ) agencies to be contracted, nowadays all applications are handled by OSM, who also provide the HR services for the non Scandinavian bit of the empire ( NAR ) in Spain/Finland/UK & long haul eventually.

You are therefore not really employed by Norwegian (even if they would have you believe NAR is "really" Norwegian ) as Direct Bondi has emphasised in his many posts on the subject, but rather by OSM in one form or another.
So far, the "Master Seniority List" has been more or less respected (apart for some "out of order" base changes at LGW where Bods were replaced/sent to Madrid, & replaced with less "senior" pilots, put in their slot merely because they were line trainers ) There was also an attempt by OSM (which BALPA rather bizarrely initially backed) to have a separate seniority list for the UK bases. This contravened the whole concept of company-wide seniority & BALPA were eventually able to see the folly of this recommendation, strange affair indeed
captplaystation is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2016, 23:05
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B737 NG Type Rating Course - Self Sponsored-Latest Pilot Jobs-Latest Pilot Jobs

Wonder if they are gonna pull the "please enjoy Winter at home" stunt again this year ?

Think carefully before choosing a seasonal employer in preference to Pikey Air. . . . . . . who at least have a history of offering (more or less) year round employment, whilst the other one . . . . . well do the research.
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Old 16th Mar 2016, 19:23
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Join Date: Nov 2010
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Yes indeed, before joining the Norwegian regime and parting with tens of thousands for a type-rating, do the research. Particularly, reports by the media in the home country of Norwegian's CEO, Bjorn Kjos. Let me save you some time:-

"Kjos accused of exploiting desperate pilots" – Dagbladet News, 18 May, 2015.

Link:- http://www.dagbladet.no/2015/05/18/nyheter/norwegian/luftfart/utenriks/arbeidsliv/39219226/

You will be employed by an agency, not Norwegian. Norwegian can “return” you to the agency at any time, without notice, reason or recourse. The notice period is with the agency, not Norwegian. The agency may or may not find you alternative work during any notice period. Your agency contract may also contain a clause indemnifying the agency from any financial responsibility toward you as a result of any action by their client airline. Moreover, in any employment dispute(s), BALPA, other union and/or an employment tribunal, can only represent pilots to the employer agency, not directly to Norwegian. As stated, Norwegian has no obligation whatsoever to respect any agency pilot, so-called Master Seniority List. The word "seniority" does not appear in my agency contract. However, the clause that I have “no employment relationship with the client airline” does.

Norwegian has a documented history of misleading agency crew. In late 2012 Norwegian unilaterally abolished the promised on/off rotation. Many pilots later expressed regret at leaving the rock solid 5/4 at Ryanair, and some returned. Norwegian also unilaterally abandoned Core employment opportunities and continues to "adjust" terms and conditions.

Core refers to Norwegian's directly employed pilots within Scandinavia. These are Norwegian’s true “employees” and entitled to government employment law protection, labor rights and labor principles directly with their employer, Norwegian - the entity controlling the working life. These employment virtues are not favors to be granted and removed at the whim of vindictive management. Unfortunately, they can be circumvented by unprincipled organizations. Some examples:-

DN News, Mar 4, 2015
“Pilots are threatened with losing their jobs if they refuse to transition to OSM”

DN News, Dec 13, 2012
"Within Norwegian threats of reprisals against crew being used in daily operations"

Nettavisen News, July 10, 2013
"English [Norwegian] intimidates officers and employees from expressing themselves"

DN News, Nov 14, 2013
"None of them [agency crew] want to come forward for fear of their future with Norwegian"

E24 News, Jan 26, 2015
"Threatened pilots to sign a new contract using aggressive tactics and threats to revoke contracts if pilots did not sign"

Dagbladet News, March 3, 2015
"Feeling exposed to a witch hunt from Kjos" - “Dream job was a nightmare”

Dagbladet News, June 19, 2015
"This smells of punishment and discrimination, says deputy Vegard Einanin PARAT, which organizes pilots and cabin staff in English [Norwegian]"

DN News, Dec 4, 2015
"It emerged very strong testimony in court which in my opinion very damaging to confidence in the management of the company and created the basis for settlement. A continuation of what we heard on Tuesday would have been so devastating for Norwegian short and long term that the company had no choice but to arrive at settlement" [the out of court settlement of a sacked Safety Officer]

There are many other reports in the Scandinavian media of Norwegian’s misguided idea of “labor relations”. No doubt, Scandinavians in particular find the abhorrent treatment of workers by Norwegian to be grossly offensive to the region’s reputation for quality of working life. It is no wonder that “Half of Norwegian’s pilots want to quit” and “75% of pilots surveyed would not recommend Norwegian as an employer” - DN News, Sep 26, 2015.

Norwegian has turned hypocrisy into an art form and has the affront to declare on itswebsite:

“We place great importance on ensuring compliance with employees’ basic human rights as outlined in the International Labor Organization’s core conventions”

The Norwegian regime has previously summarily dismissed agency pilots and cabin crew without cause or permitting individuals to respond to any allegations made against them - a blatant violation of ILO core conventions and further testament to Norwegian’s insincerity toward meaningful labor relations. As an agency pilot, you have no employment law, labor rights nor labor principles directly with Norwegian - the entity controlling your working life.

Norwegian’s pilots have formed one united and determined alliance to “facilitate the effective collective representation for ALL Norwegian pilots” (allegedly). This force is called the Norwegian Pilot Group, NPG. After reading above, you may conclude that any group accepting such continued treatment and conditions, should rather be called the Norwegian Pitiful Group, NPG.

If you have further interest in researching the facts regarding Norwegian's regime and employment law, employment rights and employment principles circumvention, please contact any NPU, NF, ECA, PARAT representative, and/or the respective newspaper from the articles I have quoted:-

Norwegian Pilot Union website:
NPU - Norwegian Pilot Union

Norwegian Airline Pilot Association, NF website:
Norsk Flygerforbund

European Cockpit Association website:

PARAT website:

Nettavisen News website:

E24 News website:

DN News website:

Dagbladet News website:
Direct Bondi is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2016, 22:53
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Join Date: Oct 2007
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What's the roster like with Norwegian?
Delta Golf Mike is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2016, 23:57
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: FUBAR
Posts: 3,349
As one who has been

"The Norwegian regime has previously summarily dismissed agency pilots and cabin crew without cause or permitting individuals to respond to any allegations made against them"

I can therefore only speak 2nd hand nowadays. Scandinavia, fixed pattern (but you won't be going there)

UK/Spain (Finland ? ) was OKish, particularly Spain, LGW was always fairly rubbish for anyone thinking of commuting.

However, control of these "entities" has now been passed to NAI & I have seen repeated claims that the "Irish" rostering is a whole lot less satisfactory than what was produced up in Oslo.

So, don't expect to match that 5/4 you may (or may not ) be enjoying now, block hrs were (certainly in the past ) never that high, but inefficient rostering will result in even more profound (sick & ) tiredness.
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