JetBlue latest to train novices as pilots
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From: US/EU
JetBlue latest to train novices as pilots
DALLAS (AP) -- JetBlue Airways is taking applications for 24 slots in a new program to train novice pilots to fly a passenger jet.
The airline said Monday that the program — the first of its kind at a large U.S. airline — will cost about $125,000 and take four years to complete. Graduates could wind up flying 100-seat passenger jets.
...
JetBlue hired CAE, a maker of flight simulators, to provide the training. CAE has run similar programs for EasyJet and Ryanair in Europe and several airlines in Asia.
The airline said Monday that the program — the first of its kind at a large U.S. airline — will cost about $125,000 and take four years to complete. Graduates could wind up flying 100-seat passenger jets.
...
JetBlue hired CAE, a maker of flight simulators, to provide the training. CAE has run similar programs for EasyJet and Ryanair in Europe and several airlines in Asia.
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: USA
A bit more detail here. It sounds as if they'll use a plan similar to other pipelines into some regionals:
"Trainees will then attend an instructor course to achieve their CFI (certified flight instructor) qualifications and ratings. Upon completion, trainees will then begin working as entry-level salaried instructors for CAE’s flight academy while accumulating flight hours to achieve the FAA’s 1,500 flight-hour requirement."
http://www.wowktv.com/story/31403009...aining-program
"Trainees will then attend an instructor course to achieve their CFI (certified flight instructor) qualifications and ratings. Upon completion, trainees will then begin working as entry-level salaried instructors for CAE’s flight academy while accumulating flight hours to achieve the FAA’s 1,500 flight-hour requirement."
http://www.wowktv.com/story/31403009...aining-program
Last edited by bafanguy; 7th March 2016 at 15:44. Reason: correct link
tough math
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: UK
for now. So did those airlines mentioned above. An easy route in creates more candidates that are willing to do anything to get onto a "jet".
They think it will be ok for a while as they will eventually get the higher salaries. Well think again, salaries are dragged back because they have already shown that they will do anything.
Watch this space, it happened and still is happening in Europe.
They think it will be ok for a while as they will eventually get the higher salaries. Well think again, salaries are dragged back because they have already shown that they will do anything.
Watch this space, it happened and still is happening in Europe.
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From: USA
Wanabee,Gunnabee,Am,
It's a bit of a mystery why JB is going to all this trouble (the pilot group opposes it, FWIW) as it's a career destination airline with plenty of experienced people making serious efforts to work for them. While there's some room for improvement in T&C (isn't there always ?) that's being addressed and people are making careers there while regionals are, for most people, a steppingstone where some abuse will be tolerated by aspirants in pursuit of a longer term goal.
If this ab initio program is different from the now common university CFI-regional pilot schemes in the US, JB isn't a regional paying new hires $23K/yr. That may be a subtle difference escaping the casual glance. JB is a major and successful carrier.
I don't see a date on this but you'll get the idea:
http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/a...etblue_airways
Hard to say where the program will go or if it'll even survive. But, it's unique here which makes it newsworthy and so far involves miniscule numbers of people. Hard to believe the concept will be widespread here.
It's a bit of a mystery why JB is going to all this trouble (the pilot group opposes it, FWIW) as it's a career destination airline with plenty of experienced people making serious efforts to work for them. While there's some room for improvement in T&C (isn't there always ?) that's being addressed and people are making careers there while regionals are, for most people, a steppingstone where some abuse will be tolerated by aspirants in pursuit of a longer term goal.
If this ab initio program is different from the now common university CFI-regional pilot schemes in the US, JB isn't a regional paying new hires $23K/yr. That may be a subtle difference escaping the casual glance. JB is a major and successful carrier.
I don't see a date on this but you'll get the idea:
http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/a...etblue_airways
Hard to say where the program will go or if it'll even survive. But, it's unique here which makes it newsworthy and so far involves miniscule numbers of people. Hard to believe the concept will be widespread here.
Last edited by bafanguy; 7th March 2016 at 20:32.
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From: Seattle
I suspect JB is doing it because:
They can.
They are among the few airline executives willing to DO something about the impending pilot/experience shortage.
They have little risk in the program. The candidates are paying [through the nose] for it. JB can monitor their progress and ensure quality.
They can.
They are among the few airline executives willing to DO something about the impending pilot/experience shortage.
They have little risk in the program. The candidates are paying [through the nose] for it. JB can monitor their progress and ensure quality.
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From: Gatwick
What is so different?
Many years ago airlines such as British Airways did a similar thing. Take a bunch of people with little or no flying experience and take them through all the qualifications before eventually letting them loose in the right hand seat of anything from the HS748 to a 747.
When these people hit the seat they had very few hours compared the ex-military guys. People didn't complain then. In fact, If I remember correctly, getting a cadetship as it was known as a well regarded path into BA.
so what is so different?
When these people hit the seat they had very few hours compared the ex-military guys. People didn't complain then. In fact, If I remember correctly, getting a cadetship as it was known as a well regarded path into BA.
so what is so different?
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From: USA
bbrown1664,
As you point out, the cadet system works and many carriers have proven that. What's different here in the US is there's no demonstrated need for an airline-based cadet system. There's already a de facto cadet system in place with the university flight programs: Aviation Accreditation Board International Accredited Programs
It's a puzzle. :-)
As you point out, the cadet system works and many carriers have proven that. What's different here in the US is there's no demonstrated need for an airline-based cadet system. There's already a de facto cadet system in place with the university flight programs: Aviation Accreditation Board International Accredited Programs
It's a puzzle. :-)
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From: France
Many years ago airlines such as British Airways did a similar thing. Take a bunch of people with little or no flying experience and take them through all the qualifications before eventually letting them loose in the right hand seat of anything from the HS748 to a 747.
When these people hit the seat they had very few hours compared the ex-military guys. People didn't complain then. In fact, If I remember correctly, getting a cadetship as it was known as a well regarded path into BA.
so what is so different?
When these people hit the seat they had very few hours compared the ex-military guys. People didn't complain then. In fact, If I remember correctly, getting a cadetship as it was known as a well regarded path into BA.
so what is so different?
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: UK
Bbrown ; Are you referring to the fully sponsored cadet schemes or what is jokingly referred to as the cadet schemes of today ? Original history shows a very highly selective fully sponsored scheme. The Airline paid one third, the Regulatory Authority paid one third and the cadet paid one third of of the CPL/IR/Perf A course at a Regulatory approved Training school's fees. The Cadet's one third was taken out of salary once fully line checked in the RHS over a five year period. Now THAT's a Cadet scheme. Educational requirements were formidable and the selection process that followed was a five day affair split over three visits to the College or participating school. Now THAT's selection.
These modern day versions select on the basis that Mummy & Daddy have fat wallets. Join the interview process with a fat wallet (however achieved) and the participating airlines will make it look like they are sponsoring you ! If you fail any stage, who covers the cost ? Loans are supposedly guaranteed. Really ?
And then, in the RHS, you pay the airline to fly. (Mummy & Daddy have probably sold the family house by then ).Moreover, you are now in to debt repayment that would make your parent's eyes water.
Sponsored pilot training ? Don't make me laugh.
These modern day versions select on the basis that Mummy & Daddy have fat wallets. Join the interview process with a fat wallet (however achieved) and the participating airlines will make it look like they are sponsoring you ! If you fail any stage, who covers the cost ? Loans are supposedly guaranteed. Really ?
And then, in the RHS, you pay the airline to fly. (Mummy & Daddy have probably sold the family house by then ).Moreover, you are now in to debt repayment that would make your parent's eyes water.
Sponsored pilot training ? Don't make me laugh.
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From: London, UK
there's no demonstrated need for an airline-based cadet system.
These modern day versions select on the basis that Mummy & Daddy have fat wallets.
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From: USA
Groundloop,
Well, everything in the airline biz comes down to money. If there's no empirical need for cadet/ab initio programs (I'm not interested in slight differences in definition), i.e., can't find pilots from usual sources, there's no reason for an airline HERE to undertake the expense and administration of one. And that's certainly the case at the major/legacy level in the USA. The pressure is on the lower tiers: regionals, Part 135, etc.
As some have mentioned, one fundamental difference in off-the-street hires vs home grown product is the selection process. Make 'em at home ? Get to choose the raw material. Whether that guarantees anything is debatable. JB claims a rigorous selection process:
" Applicants will undergo a series of assessments aimed at identifying those who demonstrate the qualities needed to become a high-performing pilot. The evaluation is based on recommended International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) pilot competencies and JetBlue’s own selection criteria, including commitment to JetBlue’s unique customer-focused culture."
At any rate, it's all a new thing over here.
ALPA's statement:
http://www.alpa.org/news-and-events/...select-program
Well, everything in the airline biz comes down to money. If there's no empirical need for cadet/ab initio programs (I'm not interested in slight differences in definition), i.e., can't find pilots from usual sources, there's no reason for an airline HERE to undertake the expense and administration of one. And that's certainly the case at the major/legacy level in the USA. The pressure is on the lower tiers: regionals, Part 135, etc.
As some have mentioned, one fundamental difference in off-the-street hires vs home grown product is the selection process. Make 'em at home ? Get to choose the raw material. Whether that guarantees anything is debatable. JB claims a rigorous selection process:
" Applicants will undergo a series of assessments aimed at identifying those who demonstrate the qualities needed to become a high-performing pilot. The evaluation is based on recommended International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) pilot competencies and JetBlue’s own selection criteria, including commitment to JetBlue’s unique customer-focused culture."
At any rate, it's all a new thing over here.
ALPA's statement:
http://www.alpa.org/news-and-events/...select-program
Last edited by bafanguy; 8th March 2016 at 10:23. Reason: Add ALPA Statement
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From: Earth
Intruder, thank-you for correcting me. I was thinking of the feeder lines. This certainly improves the financial math. Better than spending $500k and 4 years at Harvard or Oxbridge majoring in underwater basket-weaving.
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From: USA
FYI...this from JB website:
Gateway Select ? JetBlue Pilot Gateway Programs
Gateway Select Training ? JetBlue Pilot Gateway Programs
Gateway Select ? JetBlue Pilot Gateway Programs
Gateway Select Training ? JetBlue Pilot Gateway Programs
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 3,204
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From: Seattle
Must be 23 years old by the completion of the approximate 4-year program.
. . .
The cost of Gateway Select is approximately $125,000, payable in installments over the course of roughly 15 months. We are currently exploring multiple options for financial assistance to help alleviate monetary barriers to this program. Check back in the near future for more details.
. . .
The cost of Gateway Select is approximately $125,000, payable in installments over the course of roughly 15 months. We are currently exploring multiple options for financial assistance to help alleviate monetary barriers to this program. Check back in the near future for more details.
I suppose the good news is that a lot of this training will be portable, unlike most MPL courses in other countries.
