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Average ACTUAL hours to ATPL issue...

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Average ACTUAL hours to ATPL issue...

Old 7th Dec 2015, 11:42
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Average ACTUAL hours to ATPL issue...

I was wondering how many people get to 1500TT and meet all the requirements for ATPL immediately? I would assume that 500 hours multi crew, 100 night and 250 PIC(EASA style) could be a problem for some people.

If you are an airline FO is there a financial advantage of getting the ATPL sooner rather than later? And for an FO with 100 hours PIC - how would you go about getting PIC/US? Is it informal with the PIC, or only when the company think you are ready? I'm interested to know what kind of hours people had when they ticked all the boxes, and if people ended up renting Cessnas to makeup hours.
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Old 7th Dec 2015, 12:17
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In most authorities in EASA countries you can log PICus hours when you are pilot flying in order to reach the minimum PIC hours for the ATPL requirements.
Actual PIC might have to sign your logbook in that case.
You can usually find the details in your authority website.
Also some airlines are regulating this situation.

All the other boxes are usually not an issue if you are an FO in an airline.

No financial advantages as far as I know, only advantages is to be able to aplly to some companies, which do not accept CPL holder with frozen ATPL. Also you are eligible for an upgrade in a multi pilot aeroplane, for which the full ATPL is a requirement in commercial operations.
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Old 7th Dec 2015, 12:19
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The problem is the 1500 hours is an absolute minimum as we know. You can only unfreeze an ATPL during your instrument revalidation (LPC) which only comes around once a year. If your LPC falls when you have 1501hrs and you meet the requisite requirements then great, if you're on 1499 hours or less when your LPC is due then you'll have to wait another twelve months to your next LPC and dependant on how many hours you fly in a year you might be on somewhere near 2300 hours. I can't imagine that many pilots unfreeze right on or near the 1500 hour mark, in which case by the time you do get to unfreeze it most pilots will have achieved the requisite criteria.
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Old 7th Dec 2015, 12:35
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night

had a 30 year career in general aviation and never reached P1 night 100 hours!
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Old 7th Dec 2015, 12:58
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You can also unfreeze during an OPC, the syllabus is almost identical, with only one ILS raw data to be performed more.

In fact, you have a chance every six months if you fly for an AOC.
100 P1 night is not a requirement.
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Old 7th Dec 2015, 13:34
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Ah ok I guess that's changed in the last few years then, when I did mine about 6 years ago it was only on an LPC.
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Old 7th Dec 2015, 13:56
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Did mine when I had around 1550 hours. Company was pushing so I can now be used as a "co pilot relieving the commander" (after extra simulator training for this position).

Indeed, the PICus hours can be achieved if you are PF, and signed for in the logbook by the actual PIC.
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Old 7th Dec 2015, 17:24
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No, the hardest part is paying 249 for a piece of A4 paper! You don't even get a green book anymore!
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Old 7th Dec 2015, 21:18
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I think in Jet2 you can't apply to be a senior first officer without having your ATPL and that does come with a pay rise. So a financially penalty if you miss it. Other airlines may have the same deal.

Ryanair (well there was a rumour) in Ryanair that they tried to do all ATPL upgrades in your command upgrade sims so that you would not bugger off to another airline as soon as you had it. This I believe was horse poo but you never know.


All is my own opinion and subject to been 100% wrong.
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Old 7th Dec 2015, 21:54
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100 P1 night is not a requirement.
That must have changed too, 100 hours P1 night was a very definite requirement at one time.
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Old 7th Dec 2015, 22:48
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Parabellum are you sure it wasn't just 100hrs night? I could never remember it being 100hrs P1 night. The problem is it changes all the bloody time, I don't know why they can't just leave it alone
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Old 8th Dec 2015, 08:04
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Night hours can be as P1 or P2 it doesn't matter now.

And that stuff about RYR only permitting ATPL LST in the CU sim is horse poo I'm afraid, another silly rumour.
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Old 8th Dec 2015, 10:19
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Many companies outside of EASA countries only do ATPL check at lpc as this is when an EASA approved examiner is present. At OPC they can use company checkers as it is not a licence revalidation
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Old 8th Dec 2015, 15:28
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I got the ATPL at 3500hrs. 100 night was the major issue. (and I had 0hrs multi crew, but that is not a factor outside EASA land!)
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Old 8th Dec 2015, 20:10
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Check with your local authority. Even in EASAland there are huge differences. Many countries do not take the UKs very relaxed attitude towards PICUS and allow it only in certified courses, usually only during upgrade training or a pre-upgrade period with line trainers only. For real PICUS it doesn't matter if the pilot is PF or PM, both roles have to be done equally.

Then there are some authorities that only issue PIC and COP ratings. To fly an ATPL check with those kinda ratings it has to be done from the left seat in order to get a PIC rating, which requires additional training that will usually not be funded by the airline except during a command course.

I would say with the current progression average hours to ATPL in my company are roughly between 10.000 and 15.000+.
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Old 8th Dec 2015, 20:46
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Not true regarding Ryanair zerotohero.
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Old 9th Dec 2015, 09:25
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When I hit 1500hrs TT, if memory serves me correctly, the only requirement I had not met was the 500 hrs XC time. I believe I was something like 20hrs short.

FAA regs.
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Old 9th Dec 2015, 10:56
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I did mine with just under 1600h total during the annual LPC on the bizjet I was flying at the time. Would have waited until the following year if the hours hadn't quite worked out...
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Old 10th Dec 2015, 01:53
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My first 800 hours were on light singles and then I moved onto biz jets. I could have got the EASA ATPL when I hit 1,500TT, but left it to 2,200 as there was no incentive.
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Old 10th Dec 2015, 05:30
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Had everything spot on 1500TT, only took me just under 4 years from effects of controls to 1500TT.
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