Average ACTUAL hours to ATPL issue...
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2005
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,971
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From: Hong Kong
Average ACTUAL hours to ATPL issue...
I was wondering how many people get to 1500TT and meet all the requirements for ATPL immediately? I would assume that 500 hours multi crew, 100 night and 250 PIC(EASA style) could be a problem for some people.
If you are an airline FO is there a financial advantage of getting the ATPL sooner rather than later? And for an FO with 100 hours PIC - how would you go about getting PIC/US? Is it informal with the PIC, or only when the company think you are ready? I'm interested to know what kind of hours people had when they ticked all the boxes, and if people ended up renting Cessnas to makeup hours.
If you are an airline FO is there a financial advantage of getting the ATPL sooner rather than later? And for an FO with 100 hours PIC - how would you go about getting PIC/US? Is it informal with the PIC, or only when the company think you are ready? I'm interested to know what kind of hours people had when they ticked all the boxes, and if people ended up renting Cessnas to makeup hours.
Joined: Jul 2007
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From: World
In most authorities in EASA countries you can log PICus hours when you are pilot flying in order to reach the minimum PIC hours for the ATPL requirements.
Actual PIC might have to sign your logbook in that case.
You can usually find the details in your authority website.
Also some airlines are regulating this situation.
All the other boxes are usually not an issue if you are an FO in an airline.
No financial advantages as far as I know, only advantages is to be able to aplly to some companies, which do not accept CPL holder with frozen ATPL. Also you are eligible for an upgrade in a multi pilot aeroplane, for which the full ATPL is a requirement in commercial operations.
Actual PIC might have to sign your logbook in that case.
You can usually find the details in your authority website.
Also some airlines are regulating this situation.
All the other boxes are usually not an issue if you are an FO in an airline.
No financial advantages as far as I know, only advantages is to be able to aplly to some companies, which do not accept CPL holder with frozen ATPL. Also you are eligible for an upgrade in a multi pilot aeroplane, for which the full ATPL is a requirement in commercial operations.
Joined: May 2003
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From: Somewhere In The South China Sea
The problem is the 1500 hours is an absolute minimum as we know. You can only unfreeze an ATPL during your instrument revalidation (LPC) which only comes around once a year. If your LPC falls when you have 1501hrs and you meet the requisite requirements then great, if you're on 1499 hours or less when your LPC is due then you'll have to wait another twelve months to your next LPC and dependant on how many hours you fly in a year you might be on somewhere near 2300 hours. I can't imagine that many pilots unfreeze right on or near the 1500 hour mark, in which case by the time you do get to unfreeze it most pilots will have achieved the requisite criteria.
Joined: Jul 2007
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From: World
You can also unfreeze during an OPC, the syllabus is almost identical, with only one ILS raw data to be performed more.
In fact, you have a chance every six months if you fly for an AOC.
100 P1 night is not a requirement.
In fact, you have a chance every six months if you fly for an AOC.
100 P1 night is not a requirement.
Joined: Apr 2013
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From: EU
Did mine when I had around 1550 hours. Company was pushing so I can now be used as a "co pilot relieving the commander" (after extra simulator training for this position).
Indeed, the PICus hours can be achieved if you are PF, and signed for in the logbook by the actual PIC.
Indeed, the PICus hours can be achieved if you are PF, and signed for in the logbook by the actual PIC.
Joined: Jul 2008
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From: Where the company needs me not where I want to be!
I think in Jet2 you can't apply to be a senior first officer without having your ATPL and that does come with a pay rise. So a financially penalty if you miss it. Other airlines may have the same deal.
Ryanair (well there was a rumour) in Ryanair that they tried to do all ATPL upgrades in your command upgrade sims so that you would not bugger off to another airline as soon as you had it. This I believe was horse poo but you never know.
All is my own opinion and subject to been 100% wrong.
Ryanair (well there was a rumour) in Ryanair that they tried to do all ATPL upgrades in your command upgrade sims so that you would not bugger off to another airline as soon as you had it. This I believe was horse poo but you never know.
All is my own opinion and subject to been 100% wrong.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 960
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From: Somewhere In The South China Sea
Parabellum are you sure it wasn't just 100hrs night? I could never remember it being 100hrs P1 night. The problem is it changes all the bloody time, I don't know why they can't just leave it alone 
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,562
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From: I wouldn't know.
Check with your local authority. Even in EASAland there are huge differences. Many countries do not take the UKs very relaxed attitude towards PICUS and allow it only in certified courses, usually only during upgrade training or a pre-upgrade period with line trainers only. For real PICUS it doesn't matter if the pilot is PF or PM, both roles have to be done equally.
Then there are some authorities that only issue PIC and COP ratings. To fly an ATPL check with those kinda ratings it has to be done from the left seat in order to get a PIC rating, which requires additional training that will usually not be funded by the airline except during a command course.
I would say with the current progression average hours to ATPL in my company are roughly between 10.000 and 15.000+.
Then there are some authorities that only issue PIC and COP ratings. To fly an ATPL check with those kinda ratings it has to be done from the left seat in order to get a PIC rating, which requires additional training that will usually not be funded by the airline except during a command course.
I would say with the current progression average hours to ATPL in my company are roughly between 10.000 and 15.000+.
Joined: Sep 2008
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 935
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From: Scotland
I did mine with just under 1600h total during the annual LPC on the bizjet I was flying at the time. Would have waited until the following year if the hours hadn't quite worked out...