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Aerologic

Old 1st Sep 2020, 11:18
  #121 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: A little south of the "Black Sheep" brewery
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ALM -- I like it!!

It appears that the disadvantage that pilots in English speaking countries might have had when language wouldn't have been a useful tool to filter out 'foreign' pilots might just be coming to an end somewhere at the end of this year...?
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Old 1st Sep 2020, 13:55
  #122 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Vienna
Posts: 49
In all fairness, I think itís a good system to require German for a German company, French for a French company and Dutch got a Dutch company. Itís not discriminating, itís culture.

if you apply for a ďnormalĒ job on the ground, they check if you fit within the company culture and atmosphere, and I believe airlines have the right to do the exact same.

At this moment in time it might not seem ďfairĒ to others that language is the only thing in the way of getting a certain job, but I guess airlines arenít waiting to assess 20k applications. Itís a divider which makes their work easier as well.
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Old 1st Sep 2020, 14:43
  #123 (permalink)  
 
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And what do you think f.e. Air France does? It's pretty common in fact...
It being common doesn't make it right.

There are many (well-paying) jobs which don't require nor use nor knowledge of the local language. But a pilot, who is abroad for a large majority of their working time, should be fluent in it by your logic. It's discriminating, whether you admit it or not.
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Old 1st Sep 2020, 14:54
  #124 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Vienna
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I don’t believe discriminating is the correct word for it. Otherwise you can see every requirement as discriminating (e.g. I have my PhD in Law but can’t be a First Officer at AeroLogic). If you want to be a pilot, learn to fly. Want to speak German, learn.

Language discrimination would take place if they say “you can’t join because you speak with an accent”.
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Old 1st Sep 2020, 15:01
  #125 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by FlyingStone View Post
It's discriminating, whether you admit it or not.
Yes it is.

As in: discriminate
/dɪˈskrɪmɪneɪt/

verb

1.
recognize a distinction; differentiate.
"babies can discriminate between different facial expressions"

2.
make an unjust or prejudicial distinction in the treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, sex, or age.
"existing employment policies discriminate against women"

Language skill-set clearly falls into the "differentiated / distinguish" scope as opposed to the second "be biased / show prejudice".

Unless a very large chunks of the airline itself are based on English language, it might even be borderline illegal to employ a non-native speaking foreigner. Think Security compliance for instance.
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Old 1st Sep 2020, 19:48
  #126 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by FlightDetent View Post
Unless a very large chunks of the airline itself are based on English language, it might even be borderline illegal to employ a non-native speaking foreigner. Think Security compliance for instance.
Most airlines have manuals in English, checklists in English, cockpit placards in English, callouts in English, R/T is in English, yet... you need to be native in [insert language of choice].

I am very interested in how you can't be compliant with security procedures unless you speak a non-English language.
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Old 1st Sep 2020, 20:28
  #127 (permalink)  

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For exactly those reasons, it's not the airside of the company that needs consideration. See a broader picture. To answer your concrete question e.g. how do you pass a government security test which is only conducted in the local language by the police.

Not saying it cannot be done if there is will and push comes to shove, only pointing out the hassle of climbing over, below and around some hurdles may many times outweigh the (financial) benefit of accessing a larger pool of qualified candidates.

A sensible union will subtly oppose hiring non-nationals as any shortage raises the salary bar. Would the company be happy to pay for all the additional necessary expert lawyers and accountants to tackle the loops of intra/extra EU social security and taxes? Re-do all the legacy internal software an employee needs to be acquainted with? Translate all the internal SMS documents and forms into English so that QA is there, ESET presentations and so on...

Having said that, my original company (EU, state owned then) learned to employ non-native but English speaking foreigners during the 2004-2007 upturn. Before covid I indeed did work twice as a third-languange English attempter in a non-English country.

Becoming a dual-language company is a huge task. Your milage may vary.

Last edited by FlightDetent; 1st Sep 2020 at 20:41.
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Old 1st Sep 2020, 21:18
  #128 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by FlightDetent View Post
To answer your concrete question e.g. how do you pass a government security test which is only conducted in the local language by the police
Surely any sensible authority would enable tests to be done in aviation's universal language, English?

Originally Posted by FlightDetent View Post
A sensible union will subtly oppose hiring non-nationals as any shortage raises the salary bar.
Schrodinger's union? Pilots want to work as little as possible, but block the company from hiring more people, so they have to work more themselves?

Originally Posted by FlightDetent View Post
Would the company be happy to pay for all the additional necessary expert lawyers and accountants to tackle the loops of intra/extra EU social security and taxes? Re-do all the legacy internal software an employee needs to be acquainted with? Translate all the internal SMS documents and forms into English so that QA is there, ESET presentations and so on...
This is what happens in the real world on a daily basis, yet it's not exactly rocket science.
​​​​
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Old 1st Sep 2020, 21:31
  #129 (permalink)  

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Only if there is no other choice and the financial ends meet. Beyond that, we need to agree on the obvious.
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Old 2nd Sep 2020, 14:41
  #130 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Mexico City
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Austrian Airlines require pilots to have a good standard of written and spoken German and English. Their ground staff have the same requirements.
Are you saying Aerologic is discriminating and Austrian Airlines isn't?
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Old 2nd Sep 2020, 17:36
  #131 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Vienna
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Comparing a 60 year old company to a 13 year old company isn’t completely fair. Every airline, I assume, started off with language requirements and eased them out along time. I still maintain its not discrimination. My mentality is “you want it, you gotta work for it”
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Old 3rd Sep 2020, 11:10
  #132 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
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Discrimination it may be but it's legal discrimination. Plenty of it going on all around us.
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Old 3rd Sep 2020, 11:23
  #133 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2016
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just to be clear, I am not claiming nor complaining that it is discrimination. Just merely stating that comparing 2 different kind of companies isn’t fair.
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Old 3rd Sep 2020, 14:17
  #134 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Mexico City
Posts: 449
I was confused by your earlier response. We're you saying that older companies usually drop these sorts of requirements and newer companies usually enforce them?
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Old 3rd Sep 2020, 14:26
  #135 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Uk
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Makes sense for a German company.
I would expect no less.

At present with the number of AOG pilots, they can set what filters they like and they will still have enough applicants by far.
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Old 3rd Sep 2020, 19:36
  #136 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: UK
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Completely agree. Not sure why one company is being singled out for criticism when most European operators would impose similar language requirements, and perfectly reasonably in my opinion.

There is a whiff of linguistic chauvinism shown by a minority of pilots, and most of these are probably monolingual...
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Old 3rd Sep 2020, 22:59
  #137 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Vienna
Posts: 49
Climb150

What my opinion on the matter is, is that a companies as AF, KLM, AUA have got their requirements set up over longer periods. A company as AeroLogic which was set up in 2007 has had its requirements set. Who knows those requirements might change over a longer period of time. Hence saying that on the basis of requirements, its not fair to compare companies.

I myself am not monolingual for that matter (Tri-lingual believe it or not).

Last edited by MostAnnoying; 4th Sep 2020 at 08:27.
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Old 19th Feb 2021, 08:29
  #138 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Hamburg
Posts: 21
Aerologic

Good day,

thinking about applying for a first officer position at Aerologic. Right now I am
flying for a leisure airline with an unclear perspective. Of course I wonít make as much money there. But in order for some consistency it would be fine for me. Looking for some advices or experiences how it is to work for this company. Thanks !!

Last edited by David1991; 19th Feb 2021 at 18:55.
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Old 20th Feb 2021, 08:33
  #139 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Hamburg
Posts: 21
Aerologic Screening

Good day,

i am having a screening coming up. Any information to that available? Thanks!
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Old 22nd Feb 2021, 14:22
  #140 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Germany
Posts: 5
It seems to be a 2 day process - and although otherwise stated - they expect you to be prepared.

1. day)
- Some kind of ATPL, english, multitasking and coordination tests (PC)
- Group scenarios

If successful

2. day)
- Simulator session on random aircraft simulators available @ that time
- personal interview

Close colleague went through that process and his recommendations were:

- use your time!!! -train yourself with some kind of general software / books in: general Aviation / ATPL knowledge + SIM (f.e. your old OM-S, SOPs, SkyTest ! , MS FlightSim, X-Plane, Aviation Interview Books)
- train your math + physics skills: mental arithmetics, basic physics - seek some kind of books / software that helps you with that.

- don't defend or discuss your "old" SOP's with the guys @ EAT - adapt their SOP's asap
- know the history of AeroLogic + the basics of the B777 in comparison to your old aircraft
- the usual stuff. "Why do you want to work for us? / What makes you the right choice? / What is it that should convince us to employ you? / are you prepared to live / work in LEJ? / What will your family say if you are away for 10 + days in HKK ?, Why did you - or didn't you have a PTU or a LTU unit in your A/C before, what were challenging situations in your career, etc..."
- use what is available on the Inet (Software + Books) . Others will do so too. The investment is worth it - for AeroLogic or any other company you might join.

Good Luck !


Last edited by Iggi; 27th Feb 2021 at 08:35. Reason: Corrected the order of events (Day 1-Group scenario | Day 2 Sim)
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