Expat Chinese jobs.
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Expat Chinese jobs.
What are the chances to be released in the line as a new hired expat Captain in a chinese airline.... 10 %, 20 % at the most. I keep hearing horror stories from friends trying to make it in China.
Why are we still applying ?
I dont think any thing it is going to change over there for a long time.
May be we should start talking more about , tell your story so people knows.
Even if you are desperate, it doesnt do anything, It just waist your time.
If the locals dont want us, then let them have it.
Why are we still applying ?
I dont think any thing it is going to change over there for a long time.
May be we should start talking more about , tell your story so people knows.
Even if you are desperate, it doesnt do anything, It just waist your time.
If the locals dont want us, then let them have it.
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Expat Chinese jobs.
What are the chances to be released in the line as a new hired expat Captain in a chinese airline.... 10 %, 20 % at the most. I keep hearing horror stories from friends trying to make it in China.
What are the chances to be released in the line as a new hired expat Captain in a chinese airline.... 10 %, 20 % at the most. I keep hearing horror stories from friends trying to make it in China.
Why are we still applying ?
Even if you are desperate, it doesnt do anything, It just waist your time.
If the locals dont want us, then let them have it.
Expat work is not for the mama boys..choose your Airline carefully...
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De facto. You sound like those pilots always in favour of management .
Unfortunately most of us dont have your superior skills to never fail and even pass CAA checks.
I am an expat Captain but not a mama boys.
It is not a matter of being tough or not, it is all about having a discussion about the chinese jobs so we can learn from each other and have some information that it will make it easier for everybody
I read many times in this forum " go to China only if you are desperate or dont have another job "
Unfortunately most of us dont have your superior skills to never fail and even pass CAA checks.
I am an expat Captain but not a mama boys.
It is not a matter of being tough or not, it is all about having a discussion about the chinese jobs so we can learn from each other and have some information that it will make it easier for everybody
I read many times in this forum " go to China only if you are desperate or dont have another job "
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I'm
Just gave you my experience of china to include in your calculation...now if you are already biased hearing failure stories then maybe..
Its kind of simple,not everyone can make it in china..some pass the checks but culture difference is too strong,some can adapt and some cant.
Some can manage it for a year, some for 3 and others are the way to an early retirement...
The CAA checks are based normally on multiple failures and manual skills,some fail, some pass.
Few fail for no good reason but mostly because of internal "rules" such as any triggered EGPWS warning,a wrong checklist,very positive landing...the sim is stopped and thats it.
Im not always in favour of management,i am just one of those who think that if you really want something and you give yourself the tools for it then there is no reason not to achieve it,china is that way.
Deal with pollution,delays,low experienced fos,tricky sims,over done medicals but gain with what you initially came for...
This website is full of mama boys,(never said you were) and some of them are marked for life,psychologically.....maybe a byproduct of this new generation P2F who think they deserve all in a country where they belong,within 10 minutes drive from home and great benefits.
Unfortunately most of us dont have your superior skills to never fail and even pass CAA checks.
Its kind of simple,not everyone can make it in china..some pass the checks but culture difference is too strong,some can adapt and some cant.
Some can manage it for a year, some for 3 and others are the way to an early retirement...
The CAA checks are based normally on multiple failures and manual skills,some fail, some pass.
Few fail for no good reason but mostly because of internal "rules" such as any triggered EGPWS warning,a wrong checklist,very positive landing...the sim is stopped and thats it.
Im not always in favour of management,i am just one of those who think that if you really want something and you give yourself the tools for it then there is no reason not to achieve it,china is that way.
Deal with pollution,delays,low experienced fos,tricky sims,over done medicals but gain with what you initially came for...
This website is full of mama boys,(never said you were) and some of them are marked for life,psychologically.....maybe a byproduct of this new generation P2F who think they deserve all in a country where they belong,within 10 minutes drive from home and great benefits.
Last edited by de facto; 22nd Apr 2015 at 14:15.
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De Facto's post is 100% an accurate reflection of the way things work in China, there can't be any reasonable complaints about his post.
It is true there are failures during selection and initial command training that absolutely would be considered unfair in Europe however; having jumped through the hoops and becoming a line Captain, it is a great opportunity to achieve good salaries and flexibility over your schedule.
I think in the first instance you just have to see China as a Challenge, having passed through European licencing and having achieved your command in Europe this can be the next step. In my view the rewards are well worth it. I am currently earning 15,000 USD per month and I have a 2 week holiday every month. Even during the 2 weeks on, I am often only flying 2 sector days, 4 or 5 days per week.This is after 5 years in China, I like it, I could never imagine going back to a European LCC again, that would be my worst nightmare.
It is true there are failures during selection and initial command training that absolutely would be considered unfair in Europe however; having jumped through the hoops and becoming a line Captain, it is a great opportunity to achieve good salaries and flexibility over your schedule.
I think in the first instance you just have to see China as a Challenge, having passed through European licencing and having achieved your command in Europe this can be the next step. In my view the rewards are well worth it. I am currently earning 15,000 USD per month and I have a 2 week holiday every month. Even during the 2 weeks on, I am often only flying 2 sector days, 4 or 5 days per week.This is after 5 years in China, I like it, I could never imagine going back to a European LCC again, that would be my worst nightmare.
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"Even during the 2 weeks on, I am often only flying 2 sector days, 4 or 5 days per week.This is after 5 years in China, I like it, I could never imagine going back to a European LCC again, that would be my worst nightmare.[/QUOTE] "
Kungfu Panda,
Which Chinese airline is that? I am a A320 Captain looking at some of the Chinese contracts but the thought of multiple sector days with flow control is not my cup of Chinese tea! 2 sector days with half the month off is exactly what I'm looking for. PM me if you wish.
Thanks!
Kungfu Panda,
Which Chinese airline is that? I am a A320 Captain looking at some of the Chinese contracts but the thought of multiple sector days with flow control is not my cup of Chinese tea! 2 sector days with half the month off is exactly what I'm looking for. PM me if you wish.
Thanks!
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Chinese flow control is spectacular..........before you know it....8 hour delay.....no-one even blinks........
Its a chronic problem when flying shorthaul, especially along the Eastern corridor.
However getting and keeping a job in China is not easy, by anyones book.
They treat failures like we do, maybe having an average sim. Where we would get pissed off in the bar that night and try to do better; the Chinese will just fail you, then roster you for another sim session.
They do this without batting an eyelid. Even experienced Boeing pilots will have to do base training in the real jet; i.e 6 landings in a 737/787/777...... what do you think the cost of this is - several tens of thousands of dollars?
Well, the Chinese instructor, if you don't do 6 greasers on your first time handling this new jet, will just fail you - and you will be back doing touch and go's a few weeks later.........just like that - money thrown out the window....
Training doesn't really exist - it just depends on the mood of the checker on the day.....roll the dice....
Its a chronic problem when flying shorthaul, especially along the Eastern corridor.
However getting and keeping a job in China is not easy, by anyones book.
They treat failures like we do, maybe having an average sim. Where we would get pissed off in the bar that night and try to do better; the Chinese will just fail you, then roster you for another sim session.
They do this without batting an eyelid. Even experienced Boeing pilots will have to do base training in the real jet; i.e 6 landings in a 737/787/777...... what do you think the cost of this is - several tens of thousands of dollars?
Well, the Chinese instructor, if you don't do 6 greasers on your first time handling this new jet, will just fail you - and you will be back doing touch and go's a few weeks later.........just like that - money thrown out the window....
Training doesn't really exist - it just depends on the mood of the checker on the day.....roll the dice....
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Anybody else ? any recruitment experience, sim training, line training etc. I started this thread to find out some info that will benefit everybody before making a decision to hunt for a job in China.
If money is the only reason to go there, here is a few questions for the guys already 5 years in China.
Do they pay the bonuses ?
do they pay on time?
do they pay taxes ?
do they provide a tax receipt?
what about Overtime ?
per diems, allowances ?
If money is the only reason to go there, here is a few questions for the guys already 5 years in China.
Do they pay the bonuses ?
do they pay on time?
do they pay taxes ?
do they provide a tax receipt?
what about Overtime ?
per diems, allowances ?
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Snowcat, think you better go home. DeFacto is 100% correct. If you can't adjust to the culture your buggered. Nothing todo with flying. Grow up, stop asking for your Mama & be a man. If your a Captain be one!
Its their World.
Its their World.
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Are the age limits set in stone ? APAS (Banner Ad above) says "under 53/55 preferable" ( whatever the age limit, it seems to vary from company to company )
Has any flexibility been shown on this in anyones experience ? everyone says they are desperate . . . . so, if you can pass their very in-depth medical, shouldn't they be looking at us "wrinklies" ?
Has any flexibility been shown on this in anyones experience ? everyone says they are desperate . . . . so, if you can pass their very in-depth medical, shouldn't they be looking at us "wrinklies" ?
I would like to know what it would be like with a young family. I have two children under five and wonder what the family lifestyle would be like. What would a nice house with someone to help my wife with the kids cost? I know the cost in SE Asia but wonder if China is more expensive now days.
Also, what base / city would be best for a young family?
Good thread, thanks.
Also, what base / city would be best for a young family?
Good thread, thanks.
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My knowledge is ( severely ) limited in this, but . . . pollution, for example 
don't really know about sanitation/healthcare etc , I am sure some other threads on here may address this in more depth. Given you live closer than us Europeans, wouldn't a 2week On/2 week Off roster be a better plan ? I (personally ) would have thought so, if you really need to go down this Chinese route.
With the caveat, that I am taking your "Location" in Sydney as being honest. . . . I am (most assuredly) in FUBAR & expect all Peeps to be just as transparent as regards their whereabouts.
don't really know about sanitation/healthcare etc , I am sure some other threads on here may address this in more depth. Given you live closer than us Europeans, wouldn't a 2week On/2 week Off roster be a better plan ? I (personally ) would have thought so, if you really need to go down this Chinese route.With the caveat, that I am taking your "Location" in Sydney as being honest. . . . I am (most assuredly) in FUBAR & expect all Peeps to be just as transparent as regards their whereabouts.
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777Efoh:
I'm sorry I can't really help with A320 contracts, I am not a 320 Captain.
Flow control is a pain and can cause serious delays from time to time, but it doesn't change your Salary or your bonus, so you just sit and wait it out. If we have a flow control delay which is probably a near daily event then it is an average of a 30 minute delay but of course can be a lot longer.
There is quite a big expat community close to Beijing capital airport with a number of good affordable compounds and education is a available at international schools, I believe Hainan pays education costs which can be quite high. Domestic help is cheaply available.
My view of China and the Chinese has changed since the initial training, during that period I didn't like it much, I felt too much jeopardy. After checking out though and with time they know you and you know them and you gain an excellent working relationship. I even believe that the QAR monitoring is a good thing, it just has you focused on staying within parameters which you know exist and in effect adds to safety.
I am not management type I'm a line pilot who just wishes to hide in the long grass.
P.S. Healthcare: insurance depends of course on your contract but for example the United Health care group have first class surgeries and Hospitals, better than I've seen in Europe, I believe throughout China but certainly in Beijing.
I'm sorry I can't really help with A320 contracts, I am not a 320 Captain.
Flow control is a pain and can cause serious delays from time to time, but it doesn't change your Salary or your bonus, so you just sit and wait it out. If we have a flow control delay which is probably a near daily event then it is an average of a 30 minute delay but of course can be a lot longer.
There is quite a big expat community close to Beijing capital airport with a number of good affordable compounds and education is a available at international schools, I believe Hainan pays education costs which can be quite high. Domestic help is cheaply available.
My view of China and the Chinese has changed since the initial training, during that period I didn't like it much, I felt too much jeopardy. After checking out though and with time they know you and you know them and you gain an excellent working relationship. I even believe that the QAR monitoring is a good thing, it just has you focused on staying within parameters which you know exist and in effect adds to safety.
I am not management type I'm a line pilot who just wishes to hide in the long grass.
P.S. Healthcare: insurance depends of course on your contract but for example the United Health care group have first class surgeries and Hospitals, better than I've seen in Europe, I believe throughout China but certainly in Beijing.
Last edited by kungfu panda; 27th Apr 2015 at 05:37.
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I even believe that the QAR monitoring is a good thing, it just has you focused on staying within parameters which you know exist and in effect adds to safety.
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Jumbojet, I don't know why are you insulting me. One of the things that for sure I do as a Captain is to respect everybody that I come in contact with, including my colleagues in this public forum.
There is not a lot of detailed info about jobs in China like we can find here for the Middle East companies and South East Asian airlines as an example.
We all know that we have to adapt and be tough. In this same thread there are guys asking about, what it would be to bring kids to China or some are warning us about ATC or the pollution but that doesn't mean we are mama boys or less man than you.
There is not a lot of detailed info about jobs in China like we can find here for the Middle East companies and South East Asian airlines as an example.
We all know that we have to adapt and be tough. In this same thread there are guys asking about, what it would be to bring kids to China or some are warning us about ATC or the pollution but that doesn't mean we are mama boys or less man than you.
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Here is what I just posted on the Far East forum about China Southern:
Guys who joined 8-9 months ago still have not had a check so are still languishing on training pay and stuck in China.....
These are the black and white facts that people should know about CSA:
Did I miss anything?
I heard that applications for the job had dropped off massively........ I wonder why???
Guys who joined 8-9 months ago still have not had a check so are still languishing on training pay and stuck in China.....
These are the black and white facts that people should know about CSA:
- It is an incredibly difficult job to get (takes about 2 weeks all in all of vacation time)
- Mind bending bureaucracy
- Extremely long, poorly organised training - up to 1 year.
- The real risk of not going home at all for the first 2-3 months at the start of training. How would your family cope?
- Once in line training, only getting 5 days at home per month after commuting, for the next 8 months or so of line training
- Blocked from going home even a few hours early, even if it means you will miss a fight and lose a whole day or two of your days off. If you have rest days 1-2 days before your days off - tough! Those "rest days must be taken in Guangzhou before you can go home for your days off. Punitive in the extreme!
- The crap shoot if the purser will "allow you" into business when positioning
- Poor training pay during all this time.
- Having to pay for the cost of hotel after first couple of months - taken from your low training pay.
- No bases as promised
- It is essentially a cruise pilot job
- Many of them smoke in cockpit
- Poor/no quality of nit picky trainers
- 3-5 day roster only
- Constant schedule changes - even up to a few hours before the flight......
- Russian roulette with medical
- No job security
- A regressive punishment culture
- You are unable to change job in China unless released to do so by CSA.......
Did I miss anything?
I heard that applications for the job had dropped off massively........ I wonder why???
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Tax receipt. I was told by my agency that Hainan and Lucky Air dont provide that, but some guys working there can confirm that.
If you live in a country where you have to pay income taxes, this could be a deal breaker because even if your country has a tax agreement with China, you still need a tax receipt, otherwise you will have to pay for and now the high pay job it is not worthy anymore.
If you don't pay taxes at all, then never mind.
If you live in a country where you have to pay income taxes, this could be a deal breaker because even if your country has a tax agreement with China, you still need a tax receipt, otherwise you will have to pay for and now the high pay job it is not worthy anymore.
If you don't pay taxes at all, then never mind.
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I don't want to give any indication of who I work for but my Chinese contracts have always been honoured in full. I have requested and received a "Tax paid certificate" for every year worked in China. I do pay UK national health insurance. I spend between 160 and 190 days per year in the UK totally legally.
I just want to add that even though people say that there is no training in China, I totally disagree. I think that I came to China from European LCC's without truly knowing how to fly a passenger jet aircraft and in my view the Chinese have taught me a hell of a lot, it has involved serious sessions of touch and go's and a lot of simulator, all paid for by the Chinese, thank you very much "the Chinese". I think there are a lot of kids in Europe including Captains who have never really learnt to fly Jets, they are just thrown in at the end of their MPL and no further serious training.
I just want to add that even though people say that there is no training in China, I totally disagree. I think that I came to China from European LCC's without truly knowing how to fly a passenger jet aircraft and in my view the Chinese have taught me a hell of a lot, it has involved serious sessions of touch and go's and a lot of simulator, all paid for by the Chinese, thank you very much "the Chinese". I think there are a lot of kids in Europe including Captains who have never really learnt to fly Jets, they are just thrown in at the end of their MPL and no further serious training.
Last edited by kungfu panda; 28th Apr 2015 at 04:34.