Air France pilots strike
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Iansolo:
Hai Iansolo,
I am a KLM pilot and a lot of things are unclear here in the Netherlands.
Could you please specify the next two points?
1) "We are still negociating better contract for Transavia France"
- Could you specify what terms and conditions you want to see improved at Transavia France? I what way does that reflect the agreements made in the Pilots Protocol in 2007?
2) "If only KLM guys could back us up. (In fact they are, but not in the french way :-"
- How would you like us to back you up? Strike as well? In KLM 98% percent of the pilots are represented by the VNV. An call out for a strike would mean entire KLM would be grounded for two weaks i.s.o only 40-60% of AF pilots represented by SPNL resulting in an immediate bankrupt of AF-KL. As much I support our labour agreements, the Dutch pilots (in general) do not want to destroy the company. That is why we always hesitate to strike because we are thoroughly aware of the consequences on the short- and long term.
Furthermore, in Holland we have a culture called "polderen". Meaning that we always try to reach agreements by meeting in the middle. Both parties will give in to reach a result that both parties can be satisfied about.
Those two cultural aspects are the reason we were not able to strike on such a short notice.
HeavyAirbourne,
We have quite the same numbers here in AF. What we are told is those 2% are eventually the profit .... no comment.
As for the strike, negociations went on late last night with little result:
- Transavia Europe project is burried
- We are still negociating better contract for Transavia France
Thank you for your support, it helps because it's hard
If only KLM guys could back us up. (In fact they are, but not in the french way :-) )
We have quite the same numbers here in AF. What we are told is those 2% are eventually the profit .... no comment.
As for the strike, negociations went on late last night with little result:
- Transavia Europe project is burried
- We are still negociating better contract for Transavia France
Thank you for your support, it helps because it's hard
If only KLM guys could back us up. (In fact they are, but not in the french way :-) )
I am a KLM pilot and a lot of things are unclear here in the Netherlands.
Could you please specify the next two points?
1) "We are still negociating better contract for Transavia France"
- Could you specify what terms and conditions you want to see improved at Transavia France? I what way does that reflect the agreements made in the Pilots Protocol in 2007?
2) "If only KLM guys could back us up. (In fact they are, but not in the french way :-"
- How would you like us to back you up? Strike as well? In KLM 98% percent of the pilots are represented by the VNV. An call out for a strike would mean entire KLM would be grounded for two weaks i.s.o only 40-60% of AF pilots represented by SPNL resulting in an immediate bankrupt of AF-KL. As much I support our labour agreements, the Dutch pilots (in general) do not want to destroy the company. That is why we always hesitate to strike because we are thoroughly aware of the consequences on the short- and long term.
Furthermore, in Holland we have a culture called "polderen". Meaning that we always try to reach agreements by meeting in the middle. Both parties will give in to reach a result that both parties can be satisfied about.
Those two cultural aspects are the reason we were not able to strike on such a short notice.
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Very regrettable situation. This is an interesting recent editorial:
Editorial: Pilots Will Share Blame If Air France Folds | Commercial Aviation content from Aviation Week
Editorial: Pilots Will Share Blame If Air France Folds | Commercial Aviation content from Aviation Week
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What registers on this forum: Air France & Ryanair/Jet2
It seems that a 2 week strike in Air France at a minimum stated cost today of 500m € [400m GBP] evinces zero interest here.
Likewise the single muted and unresponded to post within the Ryanair thread and echoed in the Jet2 thread I think concerning the Ryanair/Jet2 incident at Malaga last week (over against the widely supported thread here & now regarding an incident on the ground at Dublin Airport.)
I'm perplexed.
Likewise the single muted and unresponded to post within the Ryanair thread and echoed in the Jet2 thread I think concerning the Ryanair/Jet2 incident at Malaga last week (over against the widely supported thread here & now regarding an incident on the ground at Dublin Airport.)
I'm perplexed.
RE the AGP incident, I think we are all so used to such things in Spain, that they no longer shock us.
Perhaps the disdain within the industry towards AF pilots in recent years caused by a series of baffling pilot decisions in a large number of incidents has caused us all, subconsciously, to fail to give them the support and respect they are due for their current endeavours
Perhaps the disdain within the industry towards AF pilots in recent years caused by a series of baffling pilot decisions in a large number of incidents has caused us all, subconsciously, to fail to give them the support and respect they are due for their current endeavours
Last edited by Una Due Tfc; 8th Oct 2014 at 22:09.
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"No longer shocked in Spain..."
Nonetheless a more than somewhat sobering analysis by you of local conditions for those of us "obliged" to fly in and out of Spain with some degree of regularity.
ˇ Though not, thank heavens, on AF with its kamikazee (trade-unionally-speaking) pilots !
ˇ Though not, thank heavens, on AF with its kamikazee (trade-unionally-speaking) pilots !
Last edited by BigFrank; 8th Oct 2014 at 20:40. Reason: Punctuation
There are only 3 European airlines with which I will not fly.
Only 1 of the 3 gives me cause for concerns about safety - and that is emphatically NOT Ryanair.
Only 1 of the 3 gives me cause for concerns about safety - and that is emphatically NOT Ryanair.
Just to clarify, I'm an Atco in a European country that isn't Spain. What I mean is, the first few of these incidents I read about in Spain shocked me (The Easyjet and Malev one in El Prat in particular), but there seems to be one every few months, and I suspect we only hear about those involving non-Spanish carriers
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With conditions in the airline business as they are, it is perhaps wiser for pilots in employment not to post their opinions on PPRuNe. Anonymity can't be guaranteed on the internet.
Clearly Air France needs a good kick up the backside to get them into the 21st century and Ryanair could do without being the lowest common denominator in terms of running an airline.
It goes without saying, so why risk your job stating the blooming obvious.
Clearly Air France needs a good kick up the backside to get them into the 21st century and Ryanair could do without being the lowest common denominator in terms of running an airline.
It goes without saying, so why risk your job stating the blooming obvious.
Last edited by G0ULI; 8th Oct 2014 at 22:32. Reason: spelling
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Merkel is certainly right.
But what to say now that Germany is entering recession, drawing the rest of Europe in the hole?
What a nice German model!
That habit of "Deutschland über Alle" has been persisting too long.
But what to say now that Germany is entering recession, drawing the rest of Europe in the hole?
What a nice German model!
That habit of "Deutschland über Alle" has been persisting too long.
