Air France pilots strike
short flights long nights
BBC are just reporting that Air France has abandoned plans to enlarge Transavia.
If true, looks like the union won the battle, but it still might loose the war.
If true, looks like the union won the battle, but it still might loose the war.
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"This arrangement must not call into question our ambition to develop Transavia, which is one of the key sources of growth for the Air France-KLM group."
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I know Transavia France is apart from HV.NL, but Air France + KLM is associated strongly with Transavia.FR & Transavia.NL: they own them both. It is already the case that HV.NL has taken over a lot of routes from KLM, and I assume the bossy VNV has agreed. They are no wilting flowers when it comes to wanting a say in business matters of KLM. Thus if AF is planning to follow the same model in France as has been successful in Netherlands it would seem rather like King Canute of the union to expect it not to happen an even hurt themselves trying to prevent it. The world order has changed and they should accept it with head out of the sand.
Last edited by RAT 5; 23rd Sep 2014 at 17:52.
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The world order has changed and they should accept it with head out if the sand.
I think Merkel recently summed it up pretty good:
German and French demographics differ sharply says Merkel.
Says she cited demographics in chat with Valls yesterday.
Ageing Germany is the reason for budget consolidation.
German government spending leeway is narrow.
One works what it takes to make the country what it is, and one only works 35 hours. Not hard to work out why one is usually much stronger economically than the other.
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Am so torn about this, yes af are behind the times, but how often do we hear us moan about t+c going down, p2f, contracts, ryanair salary etc etc?
Maybe we should all stick together and applaud them!
Maybe we should all stick together and applaud them!
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Not quite apples & apples. Survival is also high on priorities. Spinning off a few routes to an in-house subsidiary is hardly cutting the legs off the main-line. It could be argued it's the thin end of a wedge and the start of a slippery slope, but as it is in-house it could be held in check without too much fighting. To deny it happening and pretend it is not necessary is real head in the sand stuff. A measured and reasoned mutually agreed adjustment of business to maintain an edge in the changing world is what life is about. We do not know how much has been said behind closed doors. I presume this was the last resort; hopefully. If the management issued a take it or leave ultimatum then perhaps the pilots were justified in feeling attacked, but hopefully things were conducted in an adult and consultative manner. Considering the strength of feeling and the action taken one wonders.
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What is not acceptable is developing Transavia Europe with Portuguese contract rather than Transavia France with AF contract. And then, Transavia Europe will be positioned on the short medium haul AF network. This means furloughs and the end of the AF retirement plan.
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Much as I think many of them in AF are proud / jumped up little Prima Donnas , I applaud them for attempting to uphold some dignity/conditions in this profession that has been 
for too long now.
They can probably afford to lose a mths salary better than AF can lose €15mil a day, and , what next ? they close AF & re-employ them all in Transavia F ? so, basically you have tomorrow instead of in 2 years time, better to fight now, maybe win, and if not, well, it was gonna be cr@p sometime soon anyway.
I say, Bloody Well Done ! ! ! Courage/ les Gars & thank God someone is still living enough "in the past" to realise that we should still maintain some vestige of what we had/worked for. 
UAV689 " Am so torn about this, yes af are behind the times, but how often do we hear us moan about t+c going down, p2f, contracts, ryanair salary etc etc?
Maybe we should all stick together and applaud them!" I am 100% with you there, to the others who are posting the "accountants/freemasons" line. . .do you want I buy you some Vaseline ? or will you provide your own ? The destruction of this profession has two causes, corporate greed & stupid sheep-like pilots who believed those "selling" corporate greed. . Congrats with "getting with the program" (American spelling totally intentional here )
for too long now.They can probably afford to lose a mths salary better than AF can lose €15mil a day, and , what next ? they close AF & re-employ them all in Transavia F ? so, basically you have
tomorrow instead of in 2 years time, better to fight now, maybe win, and if not, well, it was gonna be cr@p sometime soon anyway.I say, Bloody Well Done ! ! ! Courage/
les Gars & thank God someone is still living enough "in the past" to realise that we should still maintain some vestige of what we had/worked for. UAV689 " Am so torn about this, yes af are behind the times, but how often do we hear us moan about t+c going down, p2f, contracts, ryanair salary etc etc?
Maybe we should all stick together and applaud them!" I am 100% with you there, to the others who are posting the "accountants/freemasons" line. . .do you want I buy you some Vaseline ? or will you provide your own ? The destruction of this profession has two causes, corporate greed & stupid sheep-like pilots who believed those "selling" corporate greed. . Congrats with "getting with the program" (American spelling totally intentional here )
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The more I think about it the more I actually support industrial action by aircrew, and people in aviation. I was always traditionally against strikers, but when you see just how badly terms have been eroded in all sectors of aviation, from pilots, to ground staff which are now agency workers, I think more people should be standing up and counted. The pilots union in uk is utterly toothless and let a complete destruction of terms happen under its watch, shame on them.
The only way these low cost carriers can work is by cheap labour, aircraft cost a fixed price, fuel is a fixed price, enroute fees are fixed, you can scrap the meals to save a few quid, the majority comes down to rostering, pay, pensions, perks etc, be it in house or external, the low cost air france will destroy their terms, not just for pilots, but also for the inevitable contractors status that will become of all the ground staff also.. so fair play to those guys, you have my vote.
The only way these low cost carriers can work is by cheap labour, aircraft cost a fixed price, fuel is a fixed price, enroute fees are fixed, you can scrap the meals to save a few quid, the majority comes down to rostering, pay, pensions, perks etc, be it in house or external, the low cost air france will destroy their terms, not just for pilots, but also for the inevitable contractors status that will become of all the ground staff also.. so fair play to those guys, you have my vote.
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Respect!
Only 1 word comes to my mind right now: RESPECT.
The CEOs need to present black numbers in their 3-4 years top position. If they show red numbers to the shareholders they are history it is that simple.
We should support the AF pilots and fight for our profession!
I could save the airline 6 figure amounts a year with a few changes, but they prefer to save £5 on stupid cost savings and errode my conditions to a shameful level.
Penny Wise - Pound Foolish
Bye bye CEO, next please.
The CEOs need to present black numbers in their 3-4 years top position. If they show red numbers to the shareholders they are history it is that simple.
We should support the AF pilots and fight for our profession!
I could save the airline 6 figure amounts a year with a few changes, but they prefer to save £5 on stupid cost savings and errode my conditions to a shameful level.
Penny Wise - Pound Foolish
Bye bye CEO, next please.
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There is some confusion today. Reports say Air France has back down on Transavia, but what this appears to mean is they've abandoned the idea of creating a separate, non-French subsidiary that would have required pilots to relocate. Apparently, Air France still intends to go forward with Transavia, but as a part of Air France without relocating pilots.
I hope this is all over soon. I'm booked on AF 83/1994 for SaturdaySunday, and would like very much to get home.
I hope this is all over soon. I'm booked on AF 83/1994 for SaturdaySunday, and would like very much to get home.
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Only 3%!
Presently, I am working for a legacy carrier, and our management has admitted that pilots' cost amount to a total of only 3% of the total operating costs. Thus, halfing pilot income will amount to a price reduction of mere $15 to a $1000 c/cl ticket and $3,75 to a $250 ticket in m/cl.
IMHO: There is no business case, this is just a political, envy driven urge. Management people (and maybe politicians) just cannot stomach subordinates earning more than they do. Naturally, people with minor imagination and/or intelligence, do not see the comprising requirements and the extensive strain in a pilot's job.
If we just could stand together...
IMHO: There is no business case, this is just a political, envy driven urge. Management people (and maybe politicians) just cannot stomach subordinates earning more than they do. Naturally, people with minor imagination and/or intelligence, do not see the comprising requirements and the extensive strain in a pilot's job.
If we just could stand together...