View Poll Results: NIGELS. Happy with things?
Yes. I\'m a happy bunny.
29
18.13%
No. Action NOW.
131
81.88%
Voters: 160. This poll is closed
Enough!!!!!!!!!!!
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Enough!!!!!!!!!!!
I have had ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!
Pensions. Pay. Conditions. CR*P.
This has got to be stopped.
BALPA: Get your butt in gear and start acting like a union!!!! Why do I pay you all this money???!!! Represent me and people like me or we will leave! We need a ballot on industrial action. Not just on the pension issue, or who our next Gen Sec is, but over terms and conditions in general.
We are now forced to bow before the MT drivers who refuse to take us on a bus because it's for the Cabin Crew.
We are assigned work AGAINST OUR WISHES because we are below CAP (No thanks to you guys there)
We are laughed at by the pilots of many other major airlines for our joke of a pay scale. (approx £21k for new entry Cadets).
We are amongst the most productive pilots ANYWHERE but HAVE YET TO SEE ANY MORE MONEY!!!!
We have seen catering standards go from bad to appalling! Half our meals are now almost inedible!!!
We have allowed our company to use September of last year as carte blanche for everything and anything that they wish to have changed. NO! Not on. We do our bit but all I have seen since I joined is constant erosion of EVERYTHING!
When we gave them TLV alleviations subject to conditions.... At what point have they met those conditions???!!!!
How about a bank pay-off once a year??? If I've done the work then surely I should be paid for it!
What about Flight Crew Water Supplies? 1.5l for a JFK? You are having a laugh!
Financial management of BALPA???!!! Where?!!!!
PAY???!!! We now trail our US counterparts by a ridiculous margin. Two crew on all US East Coast routes. Do they do that??? And what is their CAP? Not 90 is it?
I have voted for JF because I see no other option. No change of leader: No change. And that is not acceptable to me. We pay a lot of money to our union and we have seen nothing but worthless talk for some time.
I want:
More money.
More respect.
More time off.
More control of my life at work.
If you agree then let BALPA know. Nigels, Be silent no longer.
Pensions. Pay. Conditions. CR*P.
This has got to be stopped.
BALPA: Get your butt in gear and start acting like a union!!!! Why do I pay you all this money???!!! Represent me and people like me or we will leave! We need a ballot on industrial action. Not just on the pension issue, or who our next Gen Sec is, but over terms and conditions in general.
We are now forced to bow before the MT drivers who refuse to take us on a bus because it's for the Cabin Crew.
We are assigned work AGAINST OUR WISHES because we are below CAP (No thanks to you guys there)
We are laughed at by the pilots of many other major airlines for our joke of a pay scale. (approx £21k for new entry Cadets).
We are amongst the most productive pilots ANYWHERE but HAVE YET TO SEE ANY MORE MONEY!!!!
We have seen catering standards go from bad to appalling! Half our meals are now almost inedible!!!
We have allowed our company to use September of last year as carte blanche for everything and anything that they wish to have changed. NO! Not on. We do our bit but all I have seen since I joined is constant erosion of EVERYTHING!
When we gave them TLV alleviations subject to conditions.... At what point have they met those conditions???!!!!
How about a bank pay-off once a year??? If I've done the work then surely I should be paid for it!
What about Flight Crew Water Supplies? 1.5l for a JFK? You are having a laugh!
Financial management of BALPA???!!! Where?!!!!
PAY???!!! We now trail our US counterparts by a ridiculous margin. Two crew on all US East Coast routes. Do they do that??? And what is their CAP? Not 90 is it?
I have voted for JF because I see no other option. No change of leader: No change. And that is not acceptable to me. We pay a lot of money to our union and we have seen nothing but worthless talk for some time.
I want:
More money.
More respect.
More time off.
More control of my life at work.
If you agree then let BALPA know. Nigels, Be silent no longer.
Last edited by Fat Tony; 28th May 2002 at 00:50.
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More...more...more, seems all we hear these days from pilots/ unions.
And this, at a time when many companies are having a difficult time just staying in business.
Some really bright guys at the pointy end really do need to wake up and smell the coffee.
Don't like your jobs/conditions?....then quit, as in bye bye.
And this, at a time when many companies are having a difficult time just staying in business.
Some really bright guys at the pointy end really do need to wake up and smell the coffee.
Don't like your jobs/conditions?....then quit, as in bye bye.
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Ah, I see.
Pilots = greedy, bloodsucking leeches.
Airline Management = paragons of virtue and maintainers of high ethical standards.
Well, if you really believe that, you are so completely out of touch with reality that you probably also believe that Ryanair is a luxury airline.
Some airline managements are truly inspiring, but others have cynically used Sept 11th as an excuse to cut everything, whilst still somehow making a tidy profit.
Yes, the tone of Fat Tonys post is somewhat self-centred, but the truth is that terms and conditions are on a downward slide- for a variety of reasons.
Personally, I think it is time that passengers paid the true cost of air travel, and crews were rewarded with a salary commensurate with the level of responsibility they shoulder.
Pilots = greedy, bloodsucking leeches.
Airline Management = paragons of virtue and maintainers of high ethical standards.
Well, if you really believe that, you are so completely out of touch with reality that you probably also believe that Ryanair is a luxury airline.
Some airline managements are truly inspiring, but others have cynically used Sept 11th as an excuse to cut everything, whilst still somehow making a tidy profit.
Yes, the tone of Fat Tonys post is somewhat self-centred, but the truth is that terms and conditions are on a downward slide- for a variety of reasons.
Personally, I think it is time that passengers paid the true cost of air travel, and crews were rewarded with a salary commensurate with the level of responsibility they shoulder.
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411A Why don't you wake up and smell the coffee instead, your ignorance is pathetic.
The World’s airlines lost $12 Billion (U.S.) last year. This is how the people who's arses you have so firmly attached to your nose, demonstrate the depth of their suffering.
"Oh poor me chief airline executive!!, why do my employees always ask for more, can't they see my suffering!!"
'Conquerors of the Skies' don't fly economy
Top male airline executives party in lap of luxury
May. 16, 2002. 12:03 PM
By Susan Pigg
Business Reporter
Some of the most beleaguered chief executives in the world start converging on an exclusive Pennsylvania resort today - many by private jet - to play golf, ride horses and raise countless glasses of single-malt Scotch to brighter skies ahead.
The opulent annual gathering of this old boys club, composed of more than 125 top aviation and aerospace executives from around the world, may appear unseemly given that battered airlines lost a combined $12 billion (U.S.) globally last year - more than they've made in profits in their entire history.
But old habits die hard. And the Conquistadores del Cielo - Conquerors of the Skies - has too rich a history to let little details like appearances ground a good time.
"It's a chance to exchange ideas, but it's very social," said one U.S. airline industry executive lucky enough to have made the guest list for the gathering, which was held last year on the Hawaiian island of Lanai. "The toughest decision you have each day is: Am I going to go sail fishing or scuba diving, am I going to play golf or am I going to go shoot trap or go horse-back riding or jeep riding?
"You're talking aviation all the time. And it's with some of the legends, the kingpins, of the industry. I've told friends of mine, `If you get invited, do not miss it.'"
Few Canadians make the cut. It seems that no Canadian Airlines chief executive was ever invited before the carrier was taken over by Air Canada. Even Max Ward didn't make the list.
Canadian Don Carty is a regular, but that's because he's chairman and chief executive of the world's biggest carrier, American Airlines. Air Canada president Robert Milton has attended in the past and is invited to this year's gathering at the posh Nemacolin Woodlands Resort and Spa in the Laurel Highlands of western Pennsylvania.
The surroundings speak volumes. Nemacolin has its own 1,188-metre private airstrip, two PGA-championship-rated golf courses, a 32,000-square-foot spa facility, equestrian centre with 30 horses, regulation polo grounds, shooting academy and the $2 million Paradise Pool with a swim-up bar. Room rates range from almost $300 to $3,000 (U.S.) per night.
"You talk about heavy metal flying in - the Global Express, BBJs (Boeing Business Jets) - if you're an aviation buff, it's awesome," just watching attendees arrive and depart, said the industry executive, who spoke on condition that his name not be used.
In fact, virtually no one talks publicly about the gathering, for fear they'll raise the ire of fellow members - or, more importantly, send up a red flag to governments fearful about even the appearance of collusion.
"I saw no big business deals coming down. There very well could have been," said the industry insider. "But there was some serious cigar smoking, drinking and poker playing well into the evening.
"It's like when men go out for a drunken night. You're sworn to secrecy. From what I saw there, the female gender is not acceptable."
The Conquistadores del Cielo originated in the late 1930s. That's when legendary aviation pioneers Jack Frye, president of then Transcontinental and Western Air (TWA), aircraft manufacturer Donald Douglas, of Douglas Aircraft Co., and William E. Boeing, who founded the aircraft manufacturing company that's now synonymous with air travel, decided that the growing industry needed a club of sorts.
In many ways, the Conquistadores has been a barometer of the hurly burly airline industry. Well-respected stalwarts such as Juan Trippe, the founder of Pan American Airways, the United States' first international airline, have been members. One of its more colourful members is brash lawyer Herb Kelleher - renowned for his love of cigarettes and Wild Turkey - who has moved up through the ranks as the highly profitable company he started more than 30 years ago, Southwest Airlines, grew in stature.
And every year there are the "newcomers'' - the guys who've risen to the top in an industry prone to cyclical ups and downs, such as David Neeleman, the founder of New York-based JetBlue, who is a Morman who doesn't drink coffee, let alone scotch.
"The guys who started it were swashbuckling kind of people," said another airline executive who's been to many gatherings over the years. "Today everything is quite moderate by the standard of the old days."
The Conquistadores gather twice a year. Only members converge on a Wyoming dude ranch each fall for a few days to hunt, fish, golf "and tell lies," said the airline veteran.
Each spring, the Conquistadores gather at a different resort and each member is allowed to bring a guest or two - invitations that are highly coveted in the industry, and hard proof that your career has taken off.
"You meet a lot of people," Continental Airlines chief executive officer Gordon Bethune told Fortune magazine last year of the annual pilgrimage to the A-Bar-A Ranch in Wyoming. "You fly-fish, play tennis. They do rodeos, ride horses, drink too much, drink too much, ride horses, drink too much. Did I mention drinking?"
There are believed to be just 125 to 165 Conquistadores in the world - some of them now retired from the day-to-day business - all of them chosen by a board of fellow members "as they achieve levels of leadership."
That could prove problematic for the old boys club over the next few decades, as the few women in senior management at major airlines around the world move to the top.
Just last year, Colleen Barrett became the highest-ranking female in the U.S. airline industry when Kelleher stepped down and she took over as president of Southwest.
"I was asked by a female reporter if I'd crash the Conquistadores," Barrett told a Knight-Ridder reporter at the time. "It might be fun and would make a lot of headlines. But I can't think of anything more boring."
Keep playing that violin while the city burns 411A....
The World’s airlines lost $12 Billion (U.S.) last year. This is how the people who's arses you have so firmly attached to your nose, demonstrate the depth of their suffering.
"Oh poor me chief airline executive!!, why do my employees always ask for more, can't they see my suffering!!"
'Conquerors of the Skies' don't fly economy
Top male airline executives party in lap of luxury
May. 16, 2002. 12:03 PM
By Susan Pigg
Business Reporter
Some of the most beleaguered chief executives in the world start converging on an exclusive Pennsylvania resort today - many by private jet - to play golf, ride horses and raise countless glasses of single-malt Scotch to brighter skies ahead.
The opulent annual gathering of this old boys club, composed of more than 125 top aviation and aerospace executives from around the world, may appear unseemly given that battered airlines lost a combined $12 billion (U.S.) globally last year - more than they've made in profits in their entire history.
But old habits die hard. And the Conquistadores del Cielo - Conquerors of the Skies - has too rich a history to let little details like appearances ground a good time.
"It's a chance to exchange ideas, but it's very social," said one U.S. airline industry executive lucky enough to have made the guest list for the gathering, which was held last year on the Hawaiian island of Lanai. "The toughest decision you have each day is: Am I going to go sail fishing or scuba diving, am I going to play golf or am I going to go shoot trap or go horse-back riding or jeep riding?
"You're talking aviation all the time. And it's with some of the legends, the kingpins, of the industry. I've told friends of mine, `If you get invited, do not miss it.'"
Few Canadians make the cut. It seems that no Canadian Airlines chief executive was ever invited before the carrier was taken over by Air Canada. Even Max Ward didn't make the list.
Canadian Don Carty is a regular, but that's because he's chairman and chief executive of the world's biggest carrier, American Airlines. Air Canada president Robert Milton has attended in the past and is invited to this year's gathering at the posh Nemacolin Woodlands Resort and Spa in the Laurel Highlands of western Pennsylvania.
The surroundings speak volumes. Nemacolin has its own 1,188-metre private airstrip, two PGA-championship-rated golf courses, a 32,000-square-foot spa facility, equestrian centre with 30 horses, regulation polo grounds, shooting academy and the $2 million Paradise Pool with a swim-up bar. Room rates range from almost $300 to $3,000 (U.S.) per night.
"You talk about heavy metal flying in - the Global Express, BBJs (Boeing Business Jets) - if you're an aviation buff, it's awesome," just watching attendees arrive and depart, said the industry executive, who spoke on condition that his name not be used.
In fact, virtually no one talks publicly about the gathering, for fear they'll raise the ire of fellow members - or, more importantly, send up a red flag to governments fearful about even the appearance of collusion.
"I saw no big business deals coming down. There very well could have been," said the industry insider. "But there was some serious cigar smoking, drinking and poker playing well into the evening.
"It's like when men go out for a drunken night. You're sworn to secrecy. From what I saw there, the female gender is not acceptable."
The Conquistadores del Cielo originated in the late 1930s. That's when legendary aviation pioneers Jack Frye, president of then Transcontinental and Western Air (TWA), aircraft manufacturer Donald Douglas, of Douglas Aircraft Co., and William E. Boeing, who founded the aircraft manufacturing company that's now synonymous with air travel, decided that the growing industry needed a club of sorts.
In many ways, the Conquistadores has been a barometer of the hurly burly airline industry. Well-respected stalwarts such as Juan Trippe, the founder of Pan American Airways, the United States' first international airline, have been members. One of its more colourful members is brash lawyer Herb Kelleher - renowned for his love of cigarettes and Wild Turkey - who has moved up through the ranks as the highly profitable company he started more than 30 years ago, Southwest Airlines, grew in stature.
And every year there are the "newcomers'' - the guys who've risen to the top in an industry prone to cyclical ups and downs, such as David Neeleman, the founder of New York-based JetBlue, who is a Morman who doesn't drink coffee, let alone scotch.
"The guys who started it were swashbuckling kind of people," said another airline executive who's been to many gatherings over the years. "Today everything is quite moderate by the standard of the old days."
The Conquistadores gather twice a year. Only members converge on a Wyoming dude ranch each fall for a few days to hunt, fish, golf "and tell lies," said the airline veteran.
Each spring, the Conquistadores gather at a different resort and each member is allowed to bring a guest or two - invitations that are highly coveted in the industry, and hard proof that your career has taken off.
"You meet a lot of people," Continental Airlines chief executive officer Gordon Bethune told Fortune magazine last year of the annual pilgrimage to the A-Bar-A Ranch in Wyoming. "You fly-fish, play tennis. They do rodeos, ride horses, drink too much, drink too much, ride horses, drink too much. Did I mention drinking?"
There are believed to be just 125 to 165 Conquistadores in the world - some of them now retired from the day-to-day business - all of them chosen by a board of fellow members "as they achieve levels of leadership."
That could prove problematic for the old boys club over the next few decades, as the few women in senior management at major airlines around the world move to the top.
Just last year, Colleen Barrett became the highest-ranking female in the U.S. airline industry when Kelleher stepped down and she took over as president of Southwest.
"I was asked by a female reporter if I'd crash the Conquistadores," Barrett told a Knight-Ridder reporter at the time. "It might be fun and would make a lot of headlines. But I can't think of anything more boring."
Keep playing that violin while the city burns 411A....
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Well legolas....'tis a club for the bosses....and with the title goes the perks.
Meanwhile, that quarter million dollar a year Delta guy(s) who sit in the Hilton Mainz coffee shop every morning, wolfing down the discounted breakfast, moan that "....damn, it ain't enough!"
Even heard one howl one morning that he would..."have to sell the summer house, the bit@h took me to the cleaners."
Tough beans.
Meanwhile, that quarter million dollar a year Delta guy(s) who sit in the Hilton Mainz coffee shop every morning, wolfing down the discounted breakfast, moan that "....damn, it ain't enough!"
Even heard one howl one morning that he would..."have to sell the summer house, the bit@h took me to the cleaners."
Tough beans.
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411a
Your arguments are getting a bit thin mate. You use BA and every other underpaid driver in the world as a soapbox to disseminate your "think yourself lucky you've got a job" cr@p, but then revert to the Delta Captain (who is getting paid correctly) to try and portray all pilots as overpaid whingers. If every one was being paid what the Delta Captain is getting, you would have a point. Unfortunately most are getting paid closer to what BA get, and you don't have a point.
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No Soddit, absolutely no relation.
But consider...several carriers that I have worked for in the past...the (early-retired) BA guys were ALWAYS complaining that..the schedule was no good, the pay was no good, the co-pilots were no good.....all these negative opinions, and yet....they STAYED. Can only recall ONE who actually admitted that..."good gosh, they actually expect me to WORK here..darn."
Wonder when some will wake up and realise that...the company does NOT owe you a living...you applied and asked for work...and now complain that to JFK only 1.5 litres of water are served?
How about...when we land and arrive at the hotac, beers all 'round. And when you retire at 55....money in the bank.
Can it really BE so bad?
But consider...several carriers that I have worked for in the past...the (early-retired) BA guys were ALWAYS complaining that..the schedule was no good, the pay was no good, the co-pilots were no good.....all these negative opinions, and yet....they STAYED. Can only recall ONE who actually admitted that..."good gosh, they actually expect me to WORK here..darn."
Wonder when some will wake up and realise that...the company does NOT owe you a living...you applied and asked for work...and now complain that to JFK only 1.5 litres of water are served?
How about...when we land and arrive at the hotac, beers all 'round. And when you retire at 55....money in the bank.
Can it really BE so bad?
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Time you all started to give some thought to how poorly paid the guys who maintain your aircraft are. Thats the big problem now. Poor pay means no new recruits / apprentices to ensure the future of professional aircraft maintenance.
Think on.
Think on.
No doubt about pilot pay and conditions have fallen behind.
However, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting to get a different result.
Professional aviation has always been full of insecurity, so doesn't it make sense to develop a secondary income?
I enjoy my flying but there is no way I am going to trust my financial future to an industry which demonstrates time and time again that there is no such thing as "security".
Get real guys and start looking at some of the other options!
However, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting to get a different result.
Professional aviation has always been full of insecurity, so doesn't it make sense to develop a secondary income?
I enjoy my flying but there is no way I am going to trust my financial future to an industry which demonstrates time and time again that there is no such thing as "security".
Get real guys and start looking at some of the other options!
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
The FACT is 411A, pilots are purveyors of their craft/trade.
We agree to sell our flying "skills" to certain purchaser. In return, the terms and conditions of payment are directly conditional upon the skills supplied - pretty much like any contracted tradesman you employ.
If the purchaser then finds that he is UNABLE to make the agreed payment, the vendor is likewise at liberty to adjust the level/degree of quality service supplied.
The 1.5 liters of H2O provided for a long haul flight again draws your envious derision, 411A, so allow me to quote from an M.D.'s (that's a Doctor of Medicine, 411) reference manual wrt to the REQUIREMENT of water, at SEA LEVEL fo the human body to maintain Nutrition, Diet, and Wellness:
Water is an essential nutrient that is involved in every function of the body....It is necessary for all digestive, absorption, circulatory, and excretory functions, as well as for the utilization of the water-soluble vitamins. It is also needed for the maintenance of proper body temperature. By drinking an adequate amount of water each day - at LEAST eight 8-ounce glasses (2.05 liters) - one can be assured that his bodyhas all it needs to maintain good health"
So in light of KNOWN PROFESSIONAL MEDICAL ADVICE, the employer (in this case B.A.) is knowingly and wilfully depriving their crews of LESS than the MINIMUM amount of water determined by Doctors as necessary for maintaing their health.
Withdrawal of payment entitles the provider to supply/withdraw his level of service!
We agree to sell our flying "skills" to certain purchaser. In return, the terms and conditions of payment are directly conditional upon the skills supplied - pretty much like any contracted tradesman you employ.
If the purchaser then finds that he is UNABLE to make the agreed payment, the vendor is likewise at liberty to adjust the level/degree of quality service supplied.
The 1.5 liters of H2O provided for a long haul flight again draws your envious derision, 411A, so allow me to quote from an M.D.'s (that's a Doctor of Medicine, 411) reference manual wrt to the REQUIREMENT of water, at SEA LEVEL fo the human body to maintain Nutrition, Diet, and Wellness:
Water is an essential nutrient that is involved in every function of the body....It is necessary for all digestive, absorption, circulatory, and excretory functions, as well as for the utilization of the water-soluble vitamins. It is also needed for the maintenance of proper body temperature. By drinking an adequate amount of water each day - at LEAST eight 8-ounce glasses (2.05 liters) - one can be assured that his bodyhas all it needs to maintain good health"
So in light of KNOWN PROFESSIONAL MEDICAL ADVICE, the employer (in this case B.A.) is knowingly and wilfully depriving their crews of LESS than the MINIMUM amount of water determined by Doctors as necessary for maintaing their health.
Withdrawal of payment entitles the provider to supply/withdraw his level of service!
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Ladies & Gentlemen...
In response to your comments: My post may appear a little self-centred, but I can assure you that all I want is MARKET RATE. Same as everyone else is getting. And for a company like BA operating the aircraft and routes that we do, the market rate is being set by the Major US and European airlines, and in some cases even the smaller UK airlines.
Regardless of that, we are being progressively shafted.
I want BALPA to put that pay claim back in.
I think I speak for us all when I say that we want more respect at work and an immediate improvement in our terms and conditions. (Pay excluded)
Mike Jeffery always used to say that he was proud to have the best flight crew in the world working for him. Irrespective of whether or not that is true, if you want the best, the pay has to reflect that or they will not join. They may even leave.
I say again: we are being shafted.
In response to your comments: My post may appear a little self-centred, but I can assure you that all I want is MARKET RATE. Same as everyone else is getting. And for a company like BA operating the aircraft and routes that we do, the market rate is being set by the Major US and European airlines, and in some cases even the smaller UK airlines.
Regardless of that, we are being progressively shafted.
I want BALPA to put that pay claim back in.
I think I speak for us all when I say that we want more respect at work and an immediate improvement in our terms and conditions. (Pay excluded)
Mike Jeffery always used to say that he was proud to have the best flight crew in the world working for him. Irrespective of whether or not that is true, if you want the best, the pay has to reflect that or they will not join. They may even leave.
I say again: we are being shafted.
Last edited by Fat Tony; 28th May 2002 at 11:07.
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Tony, I'm with you 100%. Working for BACE, I never expected a mainline rate, but neither did I expect to be so thoroughly over by the BA management (if indeed that is not a contradiction in terms, ie BA and management in the same sentence!!). Management personnel up by nigh on 100%, adjustment to BA management salaries, the most pathetic inability to make any decisions without meetings x twenty, and then just to close us down in four of our bases!!!!!!!
In the meantime, refusal to work with BALPA, and effective cancellation of this years pay rise, a freeze on increments, AND A MORE RESTRICTIVE LEAVE POLICY.
411A is well aware that pilot salary is only about 5% of total costs. He continually cites his one example of the Delta guy - I look forward to this next twelve months and BALPA taking some action. If they don't (and I voted for JF too) I shall be awarding myself an extra 1% payrise - in fact I shall probably do that if JF DOESN'T win!!!!!
In the meantime, refusal to work with BALPA, and effective cancellation of this years pay rise, a freeze on increments, AND A MORE RESTRICTIVE LEAVE POLICY.
411A is well aware that pilot salary is only about 5% of total costs. He continually cites his one example of the Delta guy - I look forward to this next twelve months and BALPA taking some action. If they don't (and I voted for JF too) I shall be awarding myself an extra 1% payrise - in fact I shall probably do that if JF DOESN'T win!!!!!
Last edited by Jetdriver; 28th May 2002 at 15:28.
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Well, how about the airline shareholders? Are they not entitled to a reasonable return on their investment? High costs only dilute the earnings.
In all fairness however, I certainly have to admit that BA seems totally overstaffed in the middle-management ranks. Folks in the head office who continually shuffle papers all day long certainly do not contribute to the bottom line.
How about a third option on the "poll"?
c) Get rid of un-necessary staff, and distribute the savings to employees that really DO provide a benefit to the company.
In all fairness however, I certainly have to admit that BA seems totally overstaffed in the middle-management ranks. Folks in the head office who continually shuffle papers all day long certainly do not contribute to the bottom line.
How about a third option on the "poll"?
c) Get rid of un-necessary staff, and distribute the savings to employees that really DO provide a benefit to the company.
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Do all Nigelsl really feel now is an appropriate time to demand more money from a company that clearly is struggling to make any ?
As for the amount of water available to cabin crew on long haul
flying ....or being allowed on a certain crew bus...oh dear oh dear oh dear.
BA and that includes its passengers, staff, managers and directors are going to have to face a lot of changes to get it back into profit so give it a few months and the crew bus, water or pay situation may well be a very minor irritation.
Good luck
RT
As for the amount of water available to cabin crew on long haul
flying ....or being allowed on a certain crew bus...oh dear oh dear oh dear.
BA and that includes its passengers, staff, managers and directors are going to have to face a lot of changes to get it back into profit so give it a few months and the crew bus, water or pay situation may well be a very minor irritation.
Good luck
RT
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Well as BA pilots represent less than 13% of the companies total labour costs, are amongst the most long serving of all BA staff, are acknowledged as the most cost effective crew amongst all western inter-continental carriers and still earnless than Ryanair or Easyjet pilots then I think the time is right ot ask for a pay rise, especially as it will reflect the productivity increases in excess of 50% over recent years.
If the company want to save money then perhaps they should allow the flight crew to travel on the cabin crew transport, instead of allowing the MT drivers to demand we travel on a separate bus in order to increase the number of busses and drivers required. Perhaps that would produce a real saving, instead of telling the pilots that from now on they can only have 1.5 litres of drinking water on a long haul flight. If BA want to save money then its time to start picking on the expensive, wasteful areas of the company instead of the cost-effective and productive areas. We've delivered our side of the bargain and now we expect our remuneration to reflect that. IF the company loses cash then take it out of the managers bonusses, not my pocket.
If the company want to save money then perhaps they should allow the flight crew to travel on the cabin crew transport, instead of allowing the MT drivers to demand we travel on a separate bus in order to increase the number of busses and drivers required. Perhaps that would produce a real saving, instead of telling the pilots that from now on they can only have 1.5 litres of drinking water on a long haul flight. If BA want to save money then its time to start picking on the expensive, wasteful areas of the company instead of the cost-effective and productive areas. We've delivered our side of the bargain and now we expect our remuneration to reflect that. IF the company loses cash then take it out of the managers bonusses, not my pocket.