Monarch in turbulence
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As someone who has spent many years at Monarch and faces challenges that some of you have faced I have read comments on this thread that make me smile. We all make choices about which airline we work for and the reasons why. I myself have got guys on this site jobs at Monarch. Do I feel guilty? Do I hell as like....we all make our own choices and in the big scheme of things get a life. We work in a job and industry that when it's going well pays well. If its not quite working then move on and get over it. We are not gods, we do not deserve a job for life, we are pilots. We aren't the directors of airlines earning £600 k a year. We aren't bright enough, we don't have Harvard business degrees and 20 years work experience in the real world. We have been fortunate to end up in the cockpit through a bit of application and intelligence, end off. For the guys that decided to stay at Easy when the other guys went to Monarch good on you. But please don't give it the "I knew what was happening and tried to tell them"..what a load of 
. If Easy works for you then great but are you really telling me there isn't a better job out their for you or any of us. I have always said piots have far too much time in the flight deck to talk themselves into believing their own hype. Have a good look at yourselves and have a good life. Don't waste energy bothering about the little gits that we all work with that haven't got a clue, they will learn eventually. I turned on the tv today and watched paras dropping into Arnhem. I watched elderly guys and girls talk about when the **** really hit the fan and how they coped. Monday morning I may still have a job, I may not. But as they did, I will dig deep and carry on....
. If Easy works for you then great but are you really telling me there isn't a better job out their for you or any of us. I have always said piots have far too much time in the flight deck to talk themselves into believing their own hype. Have a good look at yourselves and have a good life. Don't waste energy bothering about the little gits that we all work with that haven't got a clue, they will learn eventually. I turned on the tv today and watched paras dropping into Arnhem. I watched elderly guys and girls talk about when the **** really hit the fan and how they coped. Monday morning I may still have a job, I may not. But as they did, I will dig deep and carry on....
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Ps As I'm on a roll Black and Brown I may have said it before but you are an arse my boy!
Pps as I'm typing this the white Rabbit Easy add is on the TV, genius, bloody brilliant. In fact when I go in for my next flight I will take a pocket watch, a pair of bunny ears and sing I'm late I'm late as I skip to the crew room
Gota keep laughing guys, it's only a job...their are far more important things in life..good luck everyone
Pps as I'm typing this the white Rabbit Easy add is on the TV, genius, bloody brilliant. In fact when I go in for my next flight I will take a pocket watch, a pair of bunny ears and sing I'm late I'm late as I skip to the crew room
Gota keep laughing guys, it's only a job...their are far more important things in life..good luck everyone
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BlackandBrown
I have been on holiday for 4 weeks. I am not sure I understand what you are asking? I haven't contributed to this thread or the one you refer to (as far as I can see). Do you have a question Charley?
Taken from the thread:
Monarch Anyone?
Where's poster Bealzebub now? Busy working for the 'other' company with 3 letters?
Monarch Anyone?
Where's poster Bealzebub now? Busy working for the 'other' company with 3 letters?
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Pretty unsavoury load of nonsense being spouted on here now.
This thread is about Monarch, or at least I thought it was. Am I wrong?
Whatever a few lucky "youngsters" may, or may not, have done in their respective resignations from easyJet shouldn't detract from the potential human tragedy that may be about to befall many others at Monarch, who have nothing to do with how a few people may have left a business.
Before it is pointed out; I'm a big dick ladies and gents, but I'm not waving it here.
If Monarch failed, it'd be bad news for all UK pilots in the end.
Good luck.
This thread is about Monarch, or at least I thought it was. Am I wrong?
Whatever a few lucky "youngsters" may, or may not, have done in their respective resignations from easyJet shouldn't detract from the potential human tragedy that may be about to befall many others at Monarch, who have nothing to do with how a few people may have left a business.
Before it is pointed out; I'm a big dick ladies and gents, but I'm not waving it here.
If Monarch failed, it'd be bad news for all UK pilots in the end.
Good luck.
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Well, this was never going to be a positive thread. It's not necessarily about just losing a job; for many the stakes are higher. In this hellish industry that we have helped create for ourselves, losing a job can mean the end of a career.
I wonder what method they are going to select for deciding who loses their job? I'm sure that pretty much everyone is trying to gain employment elsewhere and maybe that will reduce the number that are made redundant. These days you can't just fire on a LIFO basisand many of the new joiners will keep their job, at least for now.
I hope that many of the Captains who have had a lot of good years riding the Monarch gravy train, step aside if financially able. To be honest, with the inflated pay that this misfiring airline was paying them, many should still be fine, despite the awful pension situation.
I wonder what method they are going to select for deciding who loses their job? I'm sure that pretty much everyone is trying to gain employment elsewhere and maybe that will reduce the number that are made redundant. These days you can't just fire on a LIFO basisand many of the new joiners will keep their job, at least for now.
I hope that many of the Captains who have had a lot of good years riding the Monarch gravy train, step aside if financially able. To be honest, with the inflated pay that this misfiring airline was paying them, many should still be fine, despite the awful pension situation.
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Well said Mesh. I was/am lucky (still hopefully) to be employed by Monarch via CTC a long while ago.
I could quite easily have ended up at Easy/Jet2 etc and would no doubt have been quite happy there too.
As regards to ex Easyjet pilots that have joined Monarch over the last couple of years. I've personally found all of them very well trained/capable and nice. The only thing they really ever moaned about was the flexicrew situation. They have generally said that Easy was a better organised company, but monarch was a much better company to work for (in their experience).
I have friends who work at Easy and the only thing they really moaned about was the flexicrew situation.
The easyjet pilots for easyjet planes obviously backs up these frustrations.
We all want to be treated, at the very least, that we belong to the organisation that we are working hard for.
I could quite easily have ended up at Easy/Jet2 etc and would no doubt have been quite happy there too.
As regards to ex Easyjet pilots that have joined Monarch over the last couple of years. I've personally found all of them very well trained/capable and nice. The only thing they really ever moaned about was the flexicrew situation. They have generally said that Easy was a better organised company, but monarch was a much better company to work for (in their experience).
I have friends who work at Easy and the only thing they really moaned about was the flexicrew situation.
The easyjet pilots for easyjet planes obviously backs up these frustrations.
We all want to be treated, at the very least, that we belong to the organisation that we are working hard for.
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more positive news ?
Vulture fund in talks to bail out Monarch airline
Greybull bid for ailing charter carrier could save 3,000 jobs — and thousands of holidays
Dominic O’Connell Published: 21 September 2014
Comment (1) Print
Monarch: thousands of jobs at riskMonarch: thousands of jobs at risk
A SECRETIVE investment fund has emerged as the surprise likely saviour of Monarch, the holiday airline that faces a cash crisis. A deal would save thousands of jobs at Monarch — and the vacation plans of thousands of holidaymakers.
Greybull, best known in Britain for its role in the controversial takeover and restructuring of the electricals retailer Comet two years ago, is in talks with Monarch’s owner, Switzerland’s Mantegazza family.
The Mantegazzas, who have already pumped about £115m into the airline in recent years, are understood to be offering a £70m dowry to help clinch the deal.
Other bidders are still circling, including Elliott, the aggressive American hedge fund that recently helped force Argentina into a partial default on its sovereign debt.
Sources close to the talks said Greybull was favourite, but cautioned that it was still possible no agreement would be reached. The airline has a big pension deficit - at least £150m — and talks with pilots on new terms and conditions are at a sensitive stage. Without a deal Monarch would face an uncertain future, with accountants at PwC on standby should it be forced into administration.
The 47-year-old airline is a stalwart of the British holiday scene, carrying 6m passengers a year to destinations in the Mediterranean and beyond. It is based at Luton airport, and with its aircraft maintenance division and Cosmos tour operator arm, has 3,300 employees.
Andrew Swaffield, the chief executive recruited in April from British Airways’ parent company IAG to run the airline, has drawn up a drastic restructuring plan to shed 1,000 jobs, stop charter flights and cut the fleet from 42 to 30 aircraft.
The Civil Aviation Authority, which licenses airlines and tour operators, has kept in close contact with the airline in recent months as it has struggled to find a buyer. The regulator is understood to have compiled a watchlist of holiday operators that would be affected if Monarch ceased flights.
Greybull, one of a clutch of “vulture funds” that have prospered since the financial crisis, has emerged as a powerful force in corporate Britain in recent years. It stayed out of the spotlight, however, until two years ago when it was unmasked as one of the backers of the controversial buyout of Comet. Months later the electricals retailer went bust with the loss of 6,500 jobs.
Recently Greybull made an abortive attempt to buy the Murco oil refinery at Milford Haven.
The firm is run by brothers Marc and Nathaniel Meyohas and longstanding family friend Richard Perlhagen. “We are a family-owned, family-run business with interests everywhere,” Marc Meyohas told The Sunday Times in a rare interview in March.
Greybull, which operates from an office in the West End of London, was set up to invest the wealth of the two families, whose ties go back 40 years. The brothers’ father was a corporate lawyer in France while Perlhagen’s father built up and sold his pharmaceuticals empire in Sweden for tens of millions.
Greybull has put money into several British companies. Those that those that are known about include Metalrax, a Birmingham engineer, Plessey Semiconductors and Arc Specialist Engineering.
Nathaniel Meyohas said in March: “We are looking for unsteady companies. Our investments require either refinancing, growth capital, or are unloved parts of bigger corporates.”
Monarch declined to comment. Greybull could not be reached for comment.
Greybull bid for ailing charter carrier could save 3,000 jobs — and thousands of holidays
Dominic O’Connell Published: 21 September 2014
Comment (1) Print
Monarch: thousands of jobs at riskMonarch: thousands of jobs at risk
A SECRETIVE investment fund has emerged as the surprise likely saviour of Monarch, the holiday airline that faces a cash crisis. A deal would save thousands of jobs at Monarch — and the vacation plans of thousands of holidaymakers.
Greybull, best known in Britain for its role in the controversial takeover and restructuring of the electricals retailer Comet two years ago, is in talks with Monarch’s owner, Switzerland’s Mantegazza family.
The Mantegazzas, who have already pumped about £115m into the airline in recent years, are understood to be offering a £70m dowry to help clinch the deal.
Other bidders are still circling, including Elliott, the aggressive American hedge fund that recently helped force Argentina into a partial default on its sovereign debt.
Sources close to the talks said Greybull was favourite, but cautioned that it was still possible no agreement would be reached. The airline has a big pension deficit - at least £150m — and talks with pilots on new terms and conditions are at a sensitive stage. Without a deal Monarch would face an uncertain future, with accountants at PwC on standby should it be forced into administration.
The 47-year-old airline is a stalwart of the British holiday scene, carrying 6m passengers a year to destinations in the Mediterranean and beyond. It is based at Luton airport, and with its aircraft maintenance division and Cosmos tour operator arm, has 3,300 employees.
Andrew Swaffield, the chief executive recruited in April from British Airways’ parent company IAG to run the airline, has drawn up a drastic restructuring plan to shed 1,000 jobs, stop charter flights and cut the fleet from 42 to 30 aircraft.
The Civil Aviation Authority, which licenses airlines and tour operators, has kept in close contact with the airline in recent months as it has struggled to find a buyer. The regulator is understood to have compiled a watchlist of holiday operators that would be affected if Monarch ceased flights.
Greybull, one of a clutch of “vulture funds” that have prospered since the financial crisis, has emerged as a powerful force in corporate Britain in recent years. It stayed out of the spotlight, however, until two years ago when it was unmasked as one of the backers of the controversial buyout of Comet. Months later the electricals retailer went bust with the loss of 6,500 jobs.
Recently Greybull made an abortive attempt to buy the Murco oil refinery at Milford Haven.
The firm is run by brothers Marc and Nathaniel Meyohas and longstanding family friend Richard Perlhagen. “We are a family-owned, family-run business with interests everywhere,” Marc Meyohas told The Sunday Times in a rare interview in March.
Greybull, which operates from an office in the West End of London, was set up to invest the wealth of the two families, whose ties go back 40 years. The brothers’ father was a corporate lawyer in France while Perlhagen’s father built up and sold his pharmaceuticals empire in Sweden for tens of millions.
Greybull has put money into several British companies. Those that those that are known about include Metalrax, a Birmingham engineer, Plessey Semiconductors and Arc Specialist Engineering.
Nathaniel Meyohas said in March: “We are looking for unsteady companies. Our investments require either refinancing, growth capital, or are unloved parts of bigger corporates.”
Monarch declined to comment. Greybull could not be reached for comment.
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No, it's terrible news for Monarch. Investment firms looking to buy Monarch are doing so to offset losses against tax, strip it down and dissolve it - like they did with Comet. I'm sure it makes me an 'arse' to say so though. It's just advice and reality.
Monarch has always been one of the airlines I have a high regard for. My sympathies to those involved.
I would think Monarch is top heavy with experienced pilots as most seem to have been very happy there and they have historically had a stable workforce. I assume they still have a final salary scheme (for most) so would it not be a wise move for those aged 55+ to take retirement now so cutting their losses by protecting their pension (once in payment it should be guaranteed)? Again assuming the situation has not got so far to halt this option. It would cut the number of pilots facing an uncertain future and protect those older experienced pilots who would find it more difficult to get a job and not likely to want to go to the sandpit or accept the new contracts on offer with other airlines or the reduced terms with Monarch. It would also give time for the pension scheme to be restructured. Fewer captains would face demotion in the cutbacks and some F/O would be offerred places with BA/easy helping to streamline the business further without redundancies.
I was not aware as someone has said that LIFO does not apply, I thought it did.
I do agree with others that 'shoehorning' Monarch pilots into jobs with easy above those really wanting and waiting to join is not fair or desirable. Give the job to the best person irrespective of their situation.
I really hope Monarch survives for the individuals concerned and the UK airline industry as a whole.
I would think Monarch is top heavy with experienced pilots as most seem to have been very happy there and they have historically had a stable workforce. I assume they still have a final salary scheme (for most) so would it not be a wise move for those aged 55+ to take retirement now so cutting their losses by protecting their pension (once in payment it should be guaranteed)? Again assuming the situation has not got so far to halt this option. It would cut the number of pilots facing an uncertain future and protect those older experienced pilots who would find it more difficult to get a job and not likely to want to go to the sandpit or accept the new contracts on offer with other airlines or the reduced terms with Monarch. It would also give time for the pension scheme to be restructured. Fewer captains would face demotion in the cutbacks and some F/O would be offerred places with BA/easy helping to streamline the business further without redundancies.
I was not aware as someone has said that LIFO does not apply, I thought it did.
I do agree with others that 'shoehorning' Monarch pilots into jobs with easy above those really wanting and waiting to join is not fair or desirable. Give the job to the best person irrespective of their situation.
I really hope Monarch survives for the individuals concerned and the UK airline industry as a whole.
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Most of those over 55 are already taking their pensions and then carrying on working. Believe it or not telling those over a certain age they are redundant would be age discrimination. A matrix is being used but it's basically LIFO.
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Greybull could not be reached for comment.
However, a statement from BlackandBrown, a Director in Projects of Super High Intensive Takeovers (DiP****), was quoted as 'looking to buy Monarch are doing so to offset losses against tax, strip it down and dissolve it.'
However, a statement from BlackandBrown, a Director in Projects of Super High Intensive Takeovers (DiP****), was quoted as 'looking to buy Monarch are doing so to offset losses against tax, strip it down and dissolve it.'
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Do they want to save £60m? If yes, put it into admin now.
If no, the hand of the pilots is not that weak. Indeed, put in £80m and the pilots will agree to whatever and share the £20m.
Once the vulture funds arrive, all bets are off anyway.
If no, the hand of the pilots is not that weak. Indeed, put in £80m and the pilots will agree to whatever and share the £20m.
Once the vulture funds arrive, all bets are off anyway.
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This is addressed to Monarch pilots.
I don't know if the company is looking to offer career breaks but if anyone is looking to make enquiries into life in the ME, specifically Qatar, then I would be happy for anyone to get in touch via PM. I know that as far as the sandpit is concerned QR is probably most peoples last choice, but if on a career break it ain't too bad.
Good luck to all.
I don't know if the company is looking to offer career breaks but if anyone is looking to make enquiries into life in the ME, specifically Qatar, then I would be happy for anyone to get in touch via PM. I know that as far as the sandpit is concerned QR is probably most peoples last choice, but if on a career break it ain't too bad.
Good luck to all.
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HM Revenue & Customs: Making a loss and Corporation Tax
How the wealthy avoid paying tax | Money | theguardian.com
Mergers and acquisitions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Comet backers recoup £54m from retailer - Telegraph
It's in fact been Monarch's purpose for a long time.
How the wealthy avoid paying tax | Money | theguardian.com
There are lots of losses that can be offset against income or capital gains to reduce your tax bill. Any good accountant will help their clients minimise their tax bill by finding legitimate losses they can use in this way, but some of the more "aggressive" tax avoidance schemes look for ways to make artificial losses.
Taxation: A profitable company can buy a loss maker to use the target's loss as their advantage by reducing their tax liability. In the United States and many other countries, rules are in place to limit the ability of profitable companies to "shop" for loss making companies, limiting the tax motive of an acquiring company.
It's in fact been Monarch's purpose for a long time.
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Greybull could not be reached for comment.
However, a statement from BlackandBrown, a Director in Projects of Super High Intensive Takeovers (DiP****), was quoted as 'looking to buy Monarch are doing so to offset losses against tax, strip it down and dissolve it.'
However, a statement from BlackandBrown, a Director in Projects of Super High Intensive Takeovers (DiP****), was quoted as 'looking to buy Monarch are doing so to offset losses against tax, strip it down and dissolve it.'
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Quite, thank you Blantoon.
The term "vulture fund" is a metaphor used to compare distressed securities funds to the fund to the behavior of vulture birds “preying” on debtors in financial distress by purchasing the now-cheap credit on a secondary market to make a large monetary gain, in many cases leaving the debtor in a worse state.