Highest paying airlines for pilots?...
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Horses for courses...
EK 380 Captain; basic 12,000US/month, but then add on the Provident Fund, housing, education, utilities and it's pretty comfortable... (The villa costs EK over 5,000US/month)
EK 380 Captain; basic 12,000US/month, but then add on the Provident Fund, housing, education, utilities and it's pretty comfortable... (The villa costs EK over 5,000US/month)
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Without Question Qantas Long Haul
Have a read of their latest EBA it is an extraordinary document of over 300 pages of entitlement , entitlement , entitlement. Breathtaking
On the Airbus 380
Average Captain - $420,000 - Australian Dollars
Average First Officer - $300,000 - Australian Dollars
Average Second Officer - $200,000 - Australian Dollars
Six weeks holiday from your first years , staff travel which extends to many many family members, free first class trip once every five years, long service leave 3 months after ten years , 25 plus sick days per year (no certificate required) , staff travel after retirement, etc etc etc
To get B747 multiply the above figures by 0.9 , to get A330 figures multiply the above figures by 0.83, to get USD multiply by 0.9
Yes at Qantas we pay our second officers more than a BA narrow body capt, and they are true gentleman you know so that is why we only allow our A380 princes to fly on average 550 hours per year.
Have a read of their latest EBA it is an extraordinary document of over 300 pages of entitlement , entitlement , entitlement. Breathtaking
On the Airbus 380
Average Captain - $420,000 - Australian Dollars
Average First Officer - $300,000 - Australian Dollars
Average Second Officer - $200,000 - Australian Dollars
Six weeks holiday from your first years , staff travel which extends to many many family members, free first class trip once every five years, long service leave 3 months after ten years , 25 plus sick days per year (no certificate required) , staff travel after retirement, etc etc etc
To get B747 multiply the above figures by 0.9 , to get A330 figures multiply the above figures by 0.83, to get USD multiply by 0.9
Yes at Qantas we pay our second officers more than a BA narrow body capt, and they are true gentleman you know so that is why we only allow our A380 princes to fly on average 550 hours per year.
stirrer with a chip on his shoulder. What he states above is misleading.
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Yeah, I figured as much judging by some of the language he was using 
I, on the other hand, haven't sturred a turd in ages...
We should all earn what we deserve, which is a hell of a lot higher than the industry average to be sure.
I can't complain about my lot, but the race is well and truly on to the bottom, and it's only a matter of time before my employer sees sense and chops my package to pieces.
The onus is on us higher earners working for the 'legacy' lot to fight for our less fortunate brothers, and sisters, so that employers have to raise the bar.
I, on the other hand, haven't sturred a turd in ages...
We should all earn what we deserve, which is a hell of a lot higher than the industry average to be sure.
I can't complain about my lot, but the race is well and truly on to the bottom, and it's only a matter of time before my employer sees sense and chops my package to pieces.
The onus is on us higher earners working for the 'legacy' lot to fight for our less fortunate brothers, and sisters, so that employers have to raise the bar.
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The days of the above quoted figures for Qantas are long gone. Now Qantas is experiencing cutbacks, furloughs and many Aussies are now in the sandpit. The tax rates and living expenses in Australia are also some of the highest in the world. There is no chance of progression for the long foreseeable future. LCC mindset has invaded Down under and that ship has long since sailed.
Clog: I agree Cathay is a great place but now they only recruit SOs and at a greatly reduced package in comparison to the A scalers. For those looking for a job the options are better in the mainland than HK currently.
Clog: I agree Cathay is a great place but now they only recruit SOs and at a greatly reduced package in comparison to the A scalers. For those looking for a job the options are better in the mainland than HK currently.
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You are asking the wrong question. You need to understand that there are those with old contracts ( and superior salary packages) and those without.
The package of the former is however somewhat useless information since these contracts are not available anymore.
( An A scaler in Cathay with high seniority makes probably something in the region of 400 k US$ net incl housing. Similar situation at Air France or BA).
Many companies offer only reduced packages for new joiners, so that should be your primary are of interest ( unless you are just gathering statistical value for fun).
The package of the former is however somewhat useless information since these contracts are not available anymore.
( An A scaler in Cathay with high seniority makes probably something in the region of 400 k US$ net incl housing. Similar situation at Air France or BA).
Many companies offer only reduced packages for new joiners, so that should be your primary are of interest ( unless you are just gathering statistical value for fun).
Without selling one´s soul in some questionable countries and considering a pilot´s life cycle, UPS gotta be one of the best deals State side. A second year F/O is already on more than USD 10K/month.
United Parcel Service | AirlinePilotCentral.com
United Parcel Service | AirlinePilotCentral.com
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True enough, Wondering. That said, for this thread to have any real lifestyle relevance, one must consider how long it takes to get on those pay-scales, from the start of your career.
Eg, most competitive UPS new-hires will have a couple of years as an instructor, followed by 6+ years as a regional FO and a couple of years as a regional captain.
So, 10 years of walking what is probably a poorly paid roadmap to get there.
Compared to, say, CX, where a cadet with 0 experience will be on about $13K a month within 4 years.
Then again, 12+ years to command whilst living in an expensive city do take some of the shine off those figures.
Eg, most competitive UPS new-hires will have a couple of years as an instructor, followed by 6+ years as a regional FO and a couple of years as a regional captain.
So, 10 years of walking what is probably a poorly paid roadmap to get there.
Compared to, say, CX, where a cadet with 0 experience will be on about $13K a month within 4 years.
Then again, 12+ years to command whilst living in an expensive city do take some of the shine off those figures.
Will a CX cadet be really on more than 13K/month after 4y as a new F/O? Without the housing allowance?
In the end it´s all about quality of life e.g. not living in one of the most expensive, overcrowded and polluted places on earth. Priceless
In the end it´s all about quality of life e.g. not living in one of the most expensive, overcrowded and polluted places on earth. Priceless
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Agreed, though there's a reason it's so crowded. I have right to live in the US, HK, UK and AUS. I'm not going anywhere. Horses for courses. I'm on a different package, though.
Yes, a CX cadet will be on 13k at FO level one, without housing; which assumes 3 years as an SO and one as a JFO. This is the current schedule.
Yes, a CX cadet will be on 13k at FO level one, without housing; which assumes 3 years as an SO and one as a JFO. This is the current schedule.
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Well here it is posted from the horses mouth:
"For those of you who think our salaries are over the top. A reality check.
(this bloke is actually crying poor ?? - but the QF SO gets paid more than the BA narrow Capt who has worked for BA for 15 years - why is it so ??)
QF BASE PAY
12 years of service with QF.
A380 CAPTAIN $310,236 FIRST OFFICER $204,790 SECOND OFFICER $159,380
B747 CAPTAIN $295,560 FIRST OFFICER $195,030 SECOND OFFICER $141,788
A330 CAPTAIN $281,486 FIRST OFFICER $185,736 SECOND OFFICER $144,539
B767 CAPTAIN $252,500 FIRST OFFICER $166,637 SECOND OFFICER $129,782"
I left the for those who think our salaries are over the top remark in , to show you how truly fruity our QF boys are.
So the data I posted earlier was pretty much spot on.
Notice these are base salaries so add between 25 & 50 %
Taking the A380 Capt to around $420K the A380 FO $300plus K, and the SO chappie (the take them on four hour sectors you know) he comes in at around $200K (many joined direct as SOs from Pilot School)
The tax rates in Aust have come down a lot over past decades , unlike the increases in EU , so our Capt will clear approx $250K AUD ,without any tax minimization strategy
Add to this:
Well they thoroughly deserve it , they are the best of the best , they work for the worlds iconic Airline, and as such are themselves icons.
They are such icons that they have taken to marching in the Anzac Day Parade - because "we flew the troops in Saigon"
"For those of you who think our salaries are over the top. A reality check.
(this bloke is actually crying poor ?? - but the QF SO gets paid more than the BA narrow Capt who has worked for BA for 15 years - why is it so ??)
QF BASE PAY
12 years of service with QF.
A380 CAPTAIN $310,236 FIRST OFFICER $204,790 SECOND OFFICER $159,380
B747 CAPTAIN $295,560 FIRST OFFICER $195,030 SECOND OFFICER $141,788
A330 CAPTAIN $281,486 FIRST OFFICER $185,736 SECOND OFFICER $144,539
B767 CAPTAIN $252,500 FIRST OFFICER $166,637 SECOND OFFICER $129,782"
I left the for those who think our salaries are over the top remark in , to show you how truly fruity our QF boys are.
So the data I posted earlier was pretty much spot on.
Notice these are base salaries so add between 25 & 50 %
Taking the A380 Capt to around $420K the A380 FO $300plus K, and the SO chappie (the take them on four hour sectors you know) he comes in at around $200K (many joined direct as SOs from Pilot School)
The tax rates in Aust have come down a lot over past decades , unlike the increases in EU , so our Capt will clear approx $250K AUD ,without any tax minimization strategy
Add to this:
- Six weeks annual leave
- 25 plus sick days
- pattern protection
- one of most generous staff travel schemes around
- 300 or is it 400 page contract - which is pretty much "Sydney Glamour Boy goes to Hollywood" type deal
Well they thoroughly deserve it , they are the best of the best , they work for the worlds iconic Airline, and as such are themselves icons.
They are such icons that they have taken to marching in the Anzac Day Parade - because "we flew the troops in Saigon"
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Fly boat has his head in la la land, I worked there on the 767 for 10 years until a few years ago and my pay was never within $20k of his 76 base pay for a captain, and definitely not a cent of the 25-50% more comment. The base pay was calculated on 80 hours a month and the way they rostered you would struggle to do more and stay married. Juniors got 4 day trips over every weekend with no change in 10 years, no days off by request unless you took leave, and you never got the annual leave that you requested after 18 years there. Worked 16 out of 18 Christmas's as well, explain that to your wife & kids. Tax in Australia is 50% by the time we get stiffed for medical and the new save the country tax plus 10% gst on everything we buy. Some people are just full of ---- and try to stir. There is always 2 sides to every story.
Last edited by ao767; 27th May 2014 at 12:53.
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Tax rates 50% , well they do reach 45% , but that is over 180K
Rates are 0 to 20 K - No tax
20 to 40 K - 20%
40 to 80 K - 33%
80 to 180K - 37%
180 & over - 45%
So lower than virtually all of EU , Not Singapore or HK but not far off the USA. Likely lower than some US states
The wages for the A380 bit low more like $440K for Capt, 747 $400K , 330 pushing towards $400K
767 bit of an anomaly as it has only flown domestic last few years , but on the long haul contract , which is geared towards long haul with overtime kicking in on longer legs.
Poor chappies that they are base rate is correct, most Capt getting between $25OK and $290K for Aussie domestic.
All the data I have posted is correct , these guys really have a problem with people posting it will abuse , attempt to humiliate, attempt to intimidate, etc etc,
They don't want the data posted , not hard to figure out why.
Do you know how much they get for an overnight allowance in Japan (one night) - well they get $320 Aussie.
Would be interesting to post the allowances for other ports and an actual link to their EBA, it is an extraordinary document.
Agree wouldn't be my business if it was a private company , but the trade shares so shareholders have a right to know,why their shares have been divided by five
QF also went fleabagging to the Aussie Govt earlier this year want a few billion dollars of tax payers money in the form of Govt Debt Guarantee. Joyce tried talking up a fear campaign about the evils of "Johnny Foreigner", and state owned airlines in the Middle East.
It was pathetic.
No doubt we will see another parasitic raid on the Aussie Tax payer by QF to prop up their failing business, always the same disjointed ramble about being "iconic" , and being "icons"
What do you guys get for an overnight in Japan ?
The worst offenders on Long Haul are the 330/380 crews. A reasonable number of 330s went to Jetstar , so big QF were over-crewed for about four years. The guys weren't even hitting 500 hours , still on the big $$$, same for 380 guys over last few years few getting above 550 hours.
Interesting Comparison from other Poster
25 years BA 747 clearing $165K Aussie
25 years QF 747 clearing $240K Aussie
or QF Second Officer A380 clearing 72,000 British Pounds
But mate you don't work for an "iconic" airline so that is why there is a difference
More than happy to parasite on the Aussie Tax Payer to keep the racket going.
Rates are 0 to 20 K - No tax
20 to 40 K - 20%
40 to 80 K - 33%
80 to 180K - 37%
180 & over - 45%
So lower than virtually all of EU , Not Singapore or HK but not far off the USA. Likely lower than some US states
The wages for the A380 bit low more like $440K for Capt, 747 $400K , 330 pushing towards $400K
767 bit of an anomaly as it has only flown domestic last few years , but on the long haul contract , which is geared towards long haul with overtime kicking in on longer legs.
Poor chappies that they are base rate is correct, most Capt getting between $25OK and $290K for Aussie domestic.
All the data I have posted is correct , these guys really have a problem with people posting it will abuse , attempt to humiliate, attempt to intimidate, etc etc,
They don't want the data posted , not hard to figure out why.
Do you know how much they get for an overnight allowance in Japan (one night) - well they get $320 Aussie.
Would be interesting to post the allowances for other ports and an actual link to their EBA, it is an extraordinary document.
Agree wouldn't be my business if it was a private company , but the trade shares so shareholders have a right to know,why their shares have been divided by five
QF also went fleabagging to the Aussie Govt earlier this year want a few billion dollars of tax payers money in the form of Govt Debt Guarantee. Joyce tried talking up a fear campaign about the evils of "Johnny Foreigner", and state owned airlines in the Middle East.
It was pathetic.
No doubt we will see another parasitic raid on the Aussie Tax payer by QF to prop up their failing business, always the same disjointed ramble about being "iconic" , and being "icons"
What do you guys get for an overnight in Japan ?
The worst offenders on Long Haul are the 330/380 crews. A reasonable number of 330s went to Jetstar , so big QF were over-crewed for about four years. The guys weren't even hitting 500 hours , still on the big $$$, same for 380 guys over last few years few getting above 550 hours.
Interesting Comparison from other Poster
25 years BA 747 clearing $165K Aussie
25 years QF 747 clearing $240K Aussie
or QF Second Officer A380 clearing 72,000 British Pounds
But mate you don't work for an "iconic" airline so that is why there is a difference
More than happy to parasite on the Aussie Tax Payer to keep the racket going.
Last edited by Flyboat North; 28th May 2014 at 04:50.
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Flyboat North- you really have a problem with guys achieving reasonable contracts for themselves and their families.
They are at least dragging industry pay up rather than down like so many fools do. It just shows what a strong bargaining hand unionized Pilots have.
Could you maybe revert to trying to humiliate overpaid bankers and Ceo's of failing companies, I think you will find that they are the true leaches, whose bonus's are multiples higher than the money we are talking here.
They are at least dragging industry pay up rather than down like so many fools do. It just shows what a strong bargaining hand unionized Pilots have.
Could you maybe revert to trying to humiliate overpaid bankers and Ceo's of failing companies, I think you will find that they are the true leaches, whose bonus's are multiples higher than the money we are talking here.
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No I don't have a problem with people being paid what they are worth.
I do have a problem with my Qantas shares going down, when I can see the cause
I also have a problem with a company trying to con our Govt into giving them billions of dollars so their workers can continue to live like royalty, when I know their workers are overpaid 50%
I would prefer the money to be spent looking after the disabled, and improving our Universities, not providing a subsidy so QF second officers can continue to earn $200K (that is clearing 72,000 Pounds After Tax)
I do have a problem with my Qantas shares going down, when I can see the cause
I also have a problem with a company trying to con our Govt into giving them billions of dollars so their workers can continue to live like royalty, when I know their workers are overpaid 50%
I would prefer the money to be spent looking after the disabled, and improving our Universities, not providing a subsidy so QF second officers can continue to earn $200K (that is clearing 72,000 Pounds After Tax)
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Hot desert, narrowbody capt (year 1):
9500 usd basic + 3800 usd housing
free medical insurance (family too)
education allowance (covers around 80-85%)
no tax, cheap gas, skin cancer included
9500 usd basic + 3800 usd housing
free medical insurance (family too)
education allowance (covers around 80-85%)
no tax, cheap gas, skin cancer included
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The management chose to ask the government for those guarantees, the government chose to provide the guarantees. The employees just negotiated the best deal for themselves and their families which they could, this is their legal right in a democratic country. As a shareholder you appointed the management that agreed their pay, if you didn't agree you would have sold your shares, if you didn't like the pay in the first place then you would not have bought the shares.
Unfortunately in Europe the right of Pilots to collectively negotiate a fair contract has been removed by ruthless management's who take advantage of discrepancies in the laws between the different countries. Recently some companies were targeting pay for 737 captains at below 50,000 GBP, that is the same as London underground train drivers. Contrary to popular belief operating jet aircraft in different environments and weather is a significantly more skilled job and responsible job than running a train on rails around a city.
Maybe BA have about the correct and fair scale for this job, but in my view salaries should be set by collective bargaining.
Unfortunately in Europe the right of Pilots to collectively negotiate a fair contract has been removed by ruthless management's who take advantage of discrepancies in the laws between the different countries. Recently some companies were targeting pay for 737 captains at below 50,000 GBP, that is the same as London underground train drivers. Contrary to popular belief operating jet aircraft in different environments and weather is a significantly more skilled job and responsible job than running a train on rails around a city.
Maybe BA have about the correct and fair scale for this job, but in my view salaries should be set by collective bargaining.
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Flyboat,
The information you are posting is incorrect.
This is a professional pilot's forum. Do you have that instrument rating yet? When you do, come back here and maybe someone will help you find your first flying job.
The information you are posting is incorrect.
This is a professional pilot's forum. Do you have that instrument rating yet? When you do, come back here and maybe someone will help you find your first flying job.