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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 20th Apr 2019, 06:59
  #6221 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 194
Recruitment is in a death spiral at the moment, because not only are their usual supply lines running dry, there are increasing numbers of pilots in their first year just upping sticks and leaving.
Recruitment are either being really clever and resourcing the line to be fighting fit for a downturn OR really stupid and racing towards a mass cancellation Summer (similar to Ryanair in 2018?)

Itís not pretty at the moment. Bidding via JSS has gone to ratsh*t on some fleets due to not enough pilots.

Not one pilot got awarded part time this year.

Itís going to be a very uncomfortable Summer.

ButÖTotally predictable too. Yet ĎFinanceí insisted on keeping their boot on the throat of all other departments. And the guy who created this mess. The guy who said ĎNOí on repeated loop for the last 4 years?

They promoted him to IAG CFO!



Last edited by Right Engine; 20th Apr 2019 at 07:55.
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Old 20th Apr 2019, 12:57
  #6222 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 562
Not one pilot got awarded part time this year.
I presume you are referring to aspirational part time only? I know for a fact that at least one pilot has been given RTR part time in 2019.
GS-Alpha is offline  
Old 20th Apr 2019, 13:04
  #6223 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 75
Originally Posted by Right Engine View Post
Recruitment is in a death spiral at the moment, because not only are their usual supply lines running dry, there are increasing numbers of pilots in their first year just upping sticks and leaving.
Recruitment are either being really clever and resourcing the line to be fighting fit for a downturn OR really stupid and racing towards a mass cancellation Summer (similar to Ryanair in 2018?)



No way!!! What is the bond at BA?
AIMINGHIGH123 is offline  
Old 20th Apr 2019, 13:20
  #6224 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 24
Originally Posted by AIMINGHIGH123 View Post


No way!!! What is the bond at BA?
There is no bond per-se at BA (though SSP Pilot’s do pay circa £18K for an Airbus type rating I believe.

The only part-time contracts that have been awarded this year are for compassionate reasons under the RTR scheme. No aspirational contracts have been awarded, and none that have applied for increased PT either (72% moving to 58%).

BA is massively under-resourced at the moment, in practically every department. A toxic management environment keeps everybody just about working through threats of disciplinary procedures if one dares to be too sick in any annual period.

if you’re enjoying short haul somewhere else, my advice would be to stay where you are. It is only the attraction, for some, of long haul that continues to lure people to our airline of faded glory.

As long as you can put up with never having a weekend off for the next few years, working to EASA limits, and a company that will try to give you a self funded pay cut year after year then come on in, the waters lovely!

Plenty of recent joiners are finding that where they’ve come from is actually a better gig than BA and head back - EZ, RYR, VS et al - even some from the sand pit have returned!
Underdog is offline  
Old 20th Apr 2019, 20:37
  #6225 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: UK
Posts: 266
Recruitment is going flat out at the moment, the problem is too little too late. Unfortunately those previously in charge of pilot resources ran down pilot numbers to save money and it's coming back to bite now. I'm sure when the next recession hits they'll be biting the hands off those that want to go part time.....
Propellerhead is offline  
Old 2nd May 2019, 21:03
  #6226 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: The North
Posts: 27
Anyone know how often they recruit experienced crew or when they're likely to re-open recruitment? Not BACF, mainline.

Cheers!
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Old 2nd May 2019, 21:37
  #6227 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: TBC
Posts: 473
Is it possible to have rough timeframes for being able to achieve a couple of weekends off each month, for each seat in each fleet? I know it’s a big ask and not very representative without knowing how much future recruitment there would be, but it would be useful to guesstimate the sort of choices you’d have to make for your lifestyle.

I look at a fixed pattern roster and see how many weekends there are off, and then think how tempting BA is that with time served, you can bid to not work any... until your next move! I can’t work out which is preferable; having some off, but having that pattern forever, or the snakes & ladders situation of a seniority list with fleet/seat moves. I was pretty staggered to read on here, and hear from friends how rare a weekend off is in the early days. Obvious when you think about it, but still. A close friend who joined at the start of the latest recruitment wave gets nearly every weekend off on SH. But if he wants to upgrade, or go LH...

Gingerbread Man is offline  
Old 3rd May 2019, 07:38
  #6228 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,354
Weekend working and the whole rostering/bidding system is a very controversial issue at the moment.

Whilst you may get best guesses from some on whereabouts on a seniority list you need to be to get a chance of getting a certain number of weekends off e.g. - "A3XX, 25% from the top, get every other W/E off" I'm not sure anyone can give you a definitive timescales in terms of “X months" or “Y years" simply because your rate of movement up a list depends on all sorts of unknowns.

Just for the sake of overview I'll offer that there are lots of grumbles from the Junior and not so junior on both Longhaul and Shorthaul that getting weekends off under JSS is difficult, and guaranteeing specific weekends free is problematic for almost everybody, regardless of seniority, unless they resort to using Golden days ( 6 per year) qnd/or leave or Duty Free Weeks.

Last edited by wiggy; 3rd May 2019 at 11:39.
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Old 3rd May 2019, 15:45
  #6229 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: TBC
Posts: 473
Thanks for the reply. I appreciate it and understand the difficulties.

I don’t have an offer or anything, but wanted to be as informed as possible should one come my way in the future.

Last edited by Gingerbread Man; 3rd May 2019 at 22:19.
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Old 3rd May 2019, 16:59
  #6230 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 707
Your seniority will increase more rapidly on short haul (having said that Iíve been in nearly 3 and a half years now and still havenít quite cracked the top 50% on the Airbus (LHR) despite the 700+ pilot feast of recruitment behind). Stated before here but 50% is the rough watershed moment on any status list. You may well get the odd weekend below that figure but theyíll be rare. Otherwise if youíre bottom 50% on any list expect to work every weekend. On Long Haul fleets where itís going to take you at least 10 years to crack the top 50% that means youíll be working every weekend outside of leave for over ten years. If you have a young family at home thatís going to be a major stressor. IMHO itís an untenable situation. When one of the former Balpa P&P reps has already conceded privately that seniority is ripe for legal challenge itís surely only a matter of time?

(BTW I stress Iím not advocating that course of action but it would not surprise me one little bit the way things are going).
RexBanner is offline  
Old 3rd May 2019, 17:01
  #6231 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,354
Originally Posted by Gingerbread Man View Post
Thanks for the reply.

You're welcome, not sure how much use the advice really was but as Rex B has said rostering under JSS seems to be a major stressor for many at the moment, most especially for many at the bottom.
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Old 3rd May 2019, 18:31
  #6232 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: U.K.
Posts: 100
Whats the situation with the BA BALPA pilots that hit the news with the racism email stuff?
TheAirMission is offline  
Old 3rd May 2019, 19:48
  #6233 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: London
Posts: 93
Originally Posted by RexBanner View Post
Stated before here but 50% is the rough watershed moment on any status list. You may well get the odd weekend below that figure but theyíll be rare. Otherwise if youíre bottom 50% on any list expect to work every weekend. On Long Haul fleets where itís going to take you at least 10 years to crack the top 50% that means youíll be working every weekend outside of leave for over ten years.
While acknowledging that JSS is FAR from perfect this isn't entirely accurate. I'm 60% ish on the 787 and I have been getting weekends off no problem. And going to the places I want to go to. I've been in 8 years so I guess your 10 to 50% is about right though.

That said, the bottom of some fleets (certainly 777/320) looks pretty unpleasant. What remains to be seen is what, if any, effect the tripling of weekend points has on the availability of weekends off. Personally, I will definitely try to work at least a couple of weekends a month because I absolutely don't want to do more reserve.
Northern Monkey is offline  
Old 4th May 2019, 16:37
  #6234 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 38
Posts: 379
The tripping of weekend points will have little effect in my opinion. What is needed is for weekend points to actually count towards weekends off. That looks like itís in the pipeline. I am no fan of the seniority based rostering but with some mechanisms built in to stop the abuse of the system it is probably one I would keep. It is not right that junior guys are working 3-4 days a month more to achieve the same credit.

Weekends are over rated. I am off today and itís a nightmare, every man and his dog is out. Occasionally itís nice to get the day off that you need though. Back to work for the rest of the weekend though
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Old 4th May 2019, 16:42
  #6235 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: London
Posts: 66
Originally Posted by bex88 View Post
The tripping of weekend points will have little effect in my opinion. What is needed is for weekend points to actually count towards weekends off. That looks like itís in the pipeline. I am no fan of the seniority based rostering but with some mechanisms built in to stop the abuse of the system it is probably one I would keep. It is not right that junior guys are working 3-4 days a month more to achieve the same credit.

Weekends are over rated. I am off today and itís a nightmare, every man and his dog is out. Occasionally itís nice to get the day off that you need though. Back to work for the rest of the weekend though
do you have kids ? Or a wife/gf that works 9-5 ?
If so, not having weekends off can be very damaging in the long run
Riskybis is offline  
Old 4th May 2019, 17:09
  #6236 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 562
i personally think seniority works for some things, but not others. For instance, I think the points system we utilise for leave works very fairly. If you bid for unpopular leave periods you build up enough points such that you can bid for popular leave periods and expect to get them.

Similarly, I think seniority coupled with the freeze periods after a successful move, works well with PRIAM bidding for fleet and status.

I am not sure how well seniority works for bidding for monthly work though. A bidding system should exist, whereby pilots get some say over when they want to work and the kind of work theyíd prefer, but the level of difference that being senior or junior makes is currently ridiculous with JSS. Bidline at least created lines of work in a generally fair work distribution, and you had to pick one that had what you wanted, but more often than not had something you werenít so keen on in order to get it. That meant the senior pilot could be happy they got the line they wanted, whilst the junior guy wasnít being well and truly shafted. Now it is very much the case that the senior pilots pick just what they want and the junior guys end up getting shafted. Generally people want to work as little as possible, so the senior guys achieve that, whilst the junior guys have as many trips as possible squeezed onto their lines. Then they get global constraints and crew repair to mess with their bid so that they can have even more work squeezed in. Couple that with the fact the junior guys are paid less, and it really isnít a fair system at all.

A points system for working weekends needs to be points for avoiding working weekends, not for avoiding reserve. The amount of reserve the junior guys have to do is already way more than what the senior guys have to do. It wonít deter the senior guys from avoiding weekend work. Similarly with trips, there should be a requirement for the system to get everyone as close as possible to the average credit per trip over the year. Junior long haul pilots doing 50% more reports than senior pilots is wrong.
GS-Alpha is offline  
Old 4th May 2019, 17:47
  #6237 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Coast to Coast...
Posts: 105
Probably a very ignorant question but how hard can it be to put to vote the following concept?

Seniority rules for only 50% worth of weekend work. The other 50% is random.
Smooth Airperator is online now  
Old 4th May 2019, 18:09
  #6238 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Runcorn,Cheshire,England
Posts: 327
Originally Posted by Smooth Airperator View Post
Probably a very ignorant question but how hard can it be to put to vote the following concept?

Seniority rules for only 50% worth of weekend work. The other 50% is random.
Because some some of us worked every weekend when we were junior too. Itís not a JSS problem, it was the same with bidline too. Iím sorry, but BA is seniority driven, and it takes time to get the rewards. If you want everything now, youíve joined the wrong airline.
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Old 4th May 2019, 19:02
  #6239 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 562
I donít think anyone wants everything now, and youíre wrong, being junior under JSS is not the same as being junior under bidline back when you or I were junior. Not even close.
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Old 4th May 2019, 19:18
  #6240 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,354
Originally Posted by 3Greens View Post
Because some some of us worked every weekend when we were junior too. It’s not a JSS problem, it was the same with bidline too.

Agreed, and I'm afraid I'm going to be controversial GS-Alpha because I certainly do remember working every weekend outside of leave for well over 6 months, maybe a year, as a junior Long Haul P1- Bidine, Blindline holder. The only solution I could find was to transition to the Aspirational part time contract....FWIW I still work most weekends in a Full Time Month and of course clobber a weekend during a Part Time Month...IMHO that goes with the territory to some extent but there were some very naive expectations being expressed in the run up to the introduction in JSS, such as " I won't have to work weekends anymore" from someone who had been in the company just over a year..

That said I'm not of the opiion it is fair to inflict perpetual weekend working on the junior, I really am not..

As for the new weekend points system...I think it was set up to make it appear at least something was being done by offering some sort of incentive.... but the link to Reserve Vulnerability rather than weekend work vulnerability was done because (IMHO) the company will be very reluctant to add another clashing/blocking tool by allowing points to be swapped for weekends off.. Given how much BA hates people being able to clash/block work ( part of the reason Bidline went)I was pleasantly surprised that BALPA managed to negotiate the Golden Days....
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