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Old 9th Jan 2016, 08:48
  #2381 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 703
Nil further yes I'm aware of what's going on at easyJet and fully support the pilots in their fight against the implementation of EASA regs. In fact it would have a positive impact to the rest of the industry if the union is successful. I'm sceptical however as to the odds of long term success.

I've worked EASA regs at another low cost operator and can certainly vouch for how utterly senseless and dangerous they are. At said operator (I'm not afraid to say Wizz Air) we could check in at 05:30 local for a 4 sector day with a total duty time of 12:15h. Not only that but you could be doing this after another four sector early (11hr+) the day before! Needless to say, the flights being carried out WITHOUT controlled rest were the exception rather than the rule.

One particular week of five earlies on the spin (including at least one of such duties) I remember as PM feeling my head nodding in the cruise then managing to rouse myself sufficiently to look across at the PF whose head was doing exactly the same thing! How we haven't been able as a pilot community to collectively fight this in an effective way is an utter disgrace.

My point is though that the genie has been let out of the bottle now and there is enormous commercial pressure for easyJet to follow suit. If such previously fatiguing duties are now defined as legal then easyJet will try to roster them, make no mistake.

It's going to take a smoking hole in the ground to sort this out ultimately (and unfortunately) but even then managing to pin the blame squarely on the role of fatigue in any accident is going to prove very problematic and difficult. Look at the Colgan Air Q400 crash in Buffalo, screamed fatigue all day long. What do the FAA do? Implement a 1500hr experience rule for FO's! Irrelevant but it provided the window dressing that something had been changed.

Sorry again for the thread drift guys.

Last edited by RexBanner; 9th Jan 2016 at 10:34. Reason: Grammar!
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Old 9th Jan 2016, 09:31
  #2382 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 373
Well said!
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Old 9th Jan 2016, 10:00
  #2383 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: FL370
Age: 33
Posts: 230
To be fair to the FAA, Rex, they did also implement new rest rules and reduced duty times after the Colgan crash. While flying for the regionals in the US, I noticed a significant improvement in my alertness once these rules had been brought in. The fact that EASA have essentially gone the opposite way is most alarming.
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Old 9th Jan 2016, 11:25
  #2384 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Close to minimums
Posts: 20
fly4more: you are provided with pencil and paper for the maths test. No man and a suitcase test anymore. The cross-hairs one with the keypad to enter the number and the coloured shape, with hits and misses recorded.

For verbal reasoning I strongly recommend www.assessmentday.co.uk/aptitudetests_verbal and SkyTest for the computer based ones.

Last edited by Approaching Minima; 9th Jan 2016 at 12:05.
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Old 10th Jan 2016, 08:24
  #2385 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Centre of Universe
Posts: 247
Nil further /Rex
As you know sub part q has been around for some time and LCC and State airlines have been working it for many years. If Easyjet use EASA I doubt they would apply it with a free hand , more likely in controlled way which with their FRMS they have no option but to. E.g x amount of flights @ xx hour s in the week. You also conveniently forget to mention that the limits on afternoons are less under EASA so there are some small swings the other way.
This should not be an industrial discussion full! Stop
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Old 10th Jan 2016, 08:30
  #2386 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 703
So ignore the clearly fatiguing (read dangerous) examples I have shown and then give EASA FTL's the all clear because a minority proportion of afternoon duties (which is not the time that the majority of people feel tired at work) now have shorter limits. Great argument.

By the way there is an airline I have named in this thread who ARE operating EASA with a free hand with no scheduling agreement or FRMS system who are happily flying around in EU airspace unimpeded putting significant pressure on the bottom line of easyJet (at least in the accountants' eyes) who in turn influence British Airways.

Last edited by RexBanner; 10th Jan 2016 at 08:46.
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Old 10th Jan 2016, 14:43
  #2387 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: United States
Posts: 975
Twiglet1

Unless you are an easyjet pilot flying full time easyjet rosters then you can have no possible understanding of the fatigue issues in easyjet .

I note from your previous posts that you appear to be some sort of fan or apologist for the EASA FTL regime .

EasyJet pilots are not asking for more money or to work less .We are asking for an FTL scheme that has at least some science in its workings to remain in place as opposed to the politically and commercially driven mess that is EASA

As for FRMS , it is noble concept and if allowed to do its job free of commercial pressure and tweaking then it could be a devastatingly effective tool .......

Apologies epic thread creep. Chief Brody below is correct , time to vacate !

Last edited by Nil further; 10th Jan 2016 at 16:41. Reason: Too much thread creep
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Old 10th Jan 2016, 15:10
  #2388 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Amity Island
Age: 39
Posts: 63
Nil Further / Twiglet

It's time to vacate this thread with your Easy FTL back and forth...
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Old 10th Jan 2016, 15:25
  #2389 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: EU
Posts: 25
777 first officer bidding

In terms of bidding , I have a few questions for any Long haul (preferably 777) pilots;

What is the least popular destinations and what are the most popular ones for first officers?

Even with a blind line, are you allowed to trade with other FO's?

Even though there is no guarantee of success, can you specify a particular start time or end time for a particular day? (In theory could you request for example; Saturday nights from 6pm onwards, or request to work every Sunday)

Do you also get to bid for your annual recurrent sim training slots?


Thanks guys!
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Old 10th Jan 2016, 15:51
  #2390 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: uk
Posts: 28
Originally Posted by Chief Brody View Post
Nil Further / Twiglet

It's time to vacate this thread with your Easy FTL back and forth...
Yes, and Rex.

Back on topic.

Is the Fixed Flight Pay 1 or 2 months in arrears?
Is the 3.39 "away from base pay" 1 or 2 months in arrears?
Are either/both payable for ground school/sim?

It's 2 weeks leave in winter, and 2 in summer. Are they 7 day blocks?
Same question re the "duty free" weeks, and do you have to be contactable in the "duty free" weeks?

Thanks.
P0tt3r is offline  
Old 11th Jan 2016, 06:44
  #2391 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,311
VxVy

As far as the 777 is since I'm not an FO I can't tell you their preferred destinations other than the obvious ones such as SIN and EZE ..

Anyhow to answer to some of your other questions...

Even with a blind line, are you allowed to trade with other FO's?
AFAIK Yes but I'm not an expert on that - I believe there might be problems with credit transfer if you're trying to trade with a Tripline holder.

Even though there is no guarantee of success, can you specify a particular start time or end time for a particular day? (In theory could you request for example; Saturday nights from 6pm onwards, or request to work every Sunday)
You can certainly submit blindline preferences but at the moment at least Pre-Ops (scheduling) build the Blindlines from the selection of whatever trips are left unallocated after all the Triplines have been put together, so their/your choice is limited. Best you might expect is a result from a broad preference such as "long trips preferred", or "LHR trips preferred". I certainly think you'd be very lucky if Pre-Ops actively considered a preference for start/end times....but you can always ask....

Do you also get to bid for your annual recurrent sim training slots?
Annual? I wish! It's six monthly - Yes, you can submit a preference for certain days, and training admin might try to comply with your wishes, but again no guarantees - you often get something out of the slots that are left after they've rostered those on courses....

Last edited by wiggy; 11th Jan 2016 at 09:22.
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Old 11th Jan 2016, 08:21
  #2392 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 703
Excuse me P0tt3r I actually tried to relate my comments on the introduction of EASA FTLs to the impact on the industry and British Airways (in the context of a previous comment from someone implying that it was a bad decision to join BA as a result of the implementation of EASA FTLs as if the rest of the industry were somehow immune!).

The comments regarding how EASA was being dealt with specifically and exclusively involving easyJet were nothing to do with me. But as you rightly say, it's time to move back to the recruitment theme..

Last edited by RexBanner; 11th Jan 2016 at 08:54.
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Old 11th Jan 2016, 09:07
  #2393 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,691
Is the Fixed Flight Pay 1 or 2 months in arrears?
Is the 3.39 "away from base pay" 1 or 2 months in arrears?
Fixed flight pay is paid every month so I don't think it's in arrears. TAFB pay is one month in arrears.

Are either/both payable for ground school/sim?
No.


It's 2 weeks leave in winter, and 2 in summer. Are they 7 day blocks?
Its one 7 day and one 6 day block, both start on a Saturday.

Same question re the "duty free" weeks, and do you have to be contactable in the "duty free" weeks?
7 day blocks and you are not contactable. You can work in a DFW if you wish but not in Leave.
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Old 11th Jan 2016, 09:19
  #2394 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: uk
Posts: 28
Thanks Carnage.

Does leave attract "wrap days"? And do the duty free weeks?
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Old 11th Jan 2016, 09:28
  #2395 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: The Home of the Gnomes
Posts: 358
Its one 7 day and one 6 day block, both start on a Saturday.
Nearly.

Two seven-day leave blocks starting on a Saturday, with associated wrap days.
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Old 11th Jan 2016, 10:35
  #2396 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,078
Holidays: can only be taken in blocks of 7 days. Always start on a Saturday. You get wrap days (days supposedly free of duty) either before or after the 7 days. Before, then you get 3 wrap days prior to the Saturday OR 4 days after i.e. you only get one set of wrap days on a 7 day block. If you manage to get 14 days off, then you'll get 3 wrap days at the beginning and 4 off at the end, unless you bid otherwise.
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Old 11th Jan 2016, 11:16
  #2397 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: uk
Posts: 28
Originally Posted by no sponsor View Post
Holidays: can only be taken in blocks of 7 days. Always start on a Saturday. You get wrap days (days supposedly free of duty) either before or after the 7 days. Before, then you get 3 wrap days prior to the Saturday OR 4 days after i.e. you only get one set of wrap days on a 7 day block. If you manage to get 14 days off, then you'll get 3 wrap days at the beginning and 4 off at the end, unless you bid otherwise.
Ok. So each leave block is 10-11 days including wrap days (at one end), and may or may not cover 2 weekends.

Very useful thanks.
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Old 11th Jan 2016, 13:07
  #2398 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: London
Posts: 390
Since it does not appear that ground school duties attract any duty payments, can someone confirm whether the type rating sim duties do?

Just trying to do some financial planning for the next couple of months
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Old 12th Jan 2016, 02:34
  #2399 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 559
The hourly payment you are referring to is called TAFB and stands for 'time away from base'. If you are a Heathrow based pilot, and you are doing your ground school and simulator training at Heathrow, then you are not leaving base.
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Old 12th Jan 2016, 08:25
  #2400 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 328
The flying pay allowance is paid from day one with the company. It was in my first pay packet earlier last year.
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