Vueling pilots union request wage increase
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Universe
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Vueling pilots union request wage increase
According to the El Diaro Online press
¨Vueling pilots have called on the management of the company " paid according to the market and not below "
in negotiating the Collective Agreement , as well as improvements in quality of life through a strengthening of the programming operations .
Andrea Calcagni , representative Sepla - Vueling Union , told Efe that is not true that the pay scales of Vueling copilots are in the levels of Iberia after the signing of the agreement between the technical crew of this company and the company.
Calcagni said that the agreement reached with the lowest level of input in Iberia has been set at 35,000 Euros per year , while Vueling this level does not exceed 11,000 Euros base pay per year,
The representative of the pilots recalled that the first Vueling Collective Agreement was signed "with great effort, as was the merger with Clickair at a time when both companies had losses."
Therefore ,the Vueling management has rejected a fixed pay increase , " mainly because it is not formed by the same people who signed the above, " the commitment to sign the lowest wages for a pay increase in the negotiation of the Second Convention was accepted " as is the case of Luis Gallego, who is now the president of Iberia " .
In addition, the Sepla Vueling pilot union criticized the management of Vueling for non clearance of wage increases for 550 airline pilots and propose that wages remain as before.¨
¨Vueling pilots have called on the management of the company " paid according to the market and not below "
in negotiating the Collective Agreement , as well as improvements in quality of life through a strengthening of the programming operations .Andrea Calcagni , representative Sepla - Vueling Union , told Efe that is not true that the pay scales of Vueling copilots are in the levels of Iberia after the signing of the agreement between the technical crew of this company and the company.
Calcagni said that the agreement reached with the lowest level of input in Iberia has been set at 35,000 Euros per year , while Vueling this level does not exceed 11,000 Euros base pay per year,
The representative of the pilots recalled that the first Vueling Collective Agreement was signed "with great effort, as was the merger with Clickair at a time when both companies had losses."
Therefore ,the Vueling management has rejected a fixed pay increase , " mainly because it is not formed by the same people who signed the above, " the commitment to sign the lowest wages for a pay increase in the negotiation of the Second Convention was accepted " as is the case of Luis Gallego, who is now the president of Iberia " .
In addition, the Sepla Vueling pilot union criticized the management of Vueling for non clearance of wage increases for 550 airline pilots and propose that wages remain as before.¨
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: california
Age: 66
Posts: 345
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think If you guys stick together and cooperate with each other and the union, discipline within the ranks. Something the British Pilots are always unable to achieve because of this prehistoric Thatchorite mentality that still exists. Then there is a very good chance of achieving your goals.
All you need is a series of 2 minute strikes during rush hour periods. Within that 2 minutes all Pilots are in uniform, within the terminal of the Airport where ever they are and providing leaflet information to passengers regarding the reasons they have been forced to cause this disruption.
All you need is a series of 2 minute strikes during rush hour periods. Within that 2 minutes all Pilots are in uniform, within the terminal of the Airport where ever they are and providing leaflet information to passengers regarding the reasons they have been forced to cause this disruption.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Planet earth
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Vueling pilots united
I agree with Polax, yes Abbey it will not be easy for the Vueling pilots.
I say that united and resolute they have a good chance. You saw the number 11,000 Euros base pay per year, there is a lot of room for a pay increase. Vueling has a huge cash reserve, and has been profitable for a number of quarters, and contributed to a an improvement in IAG´s share price.
Meanwhile the company can maintain their cost structure with their growth and a pay increase, Vueling´s current labour cost ( including non pilots ) as a % of revenue, is the second lowest in Europe, lower than Ryanair´s.
The headline reads they will be fighting for market conditions, not below. Understand, they are asking to get closer in pay to Easyjet, not the same pay. Apparently, Vueling pilots are united behind their SEPLA Vueling union.
The lowest pay of the lowest paid Vueling pilots affect European pilots and British, as its pay could be used against your companies union in future negotiations, as Vueling grows in Europe, do you agree ?
One thing they the management like to do is play one pilot group against another. For example moving production from Iberia to British Airways. For British it will possibly come to moving production to a cheaper sources of labour in the short haul to Vueling.
Would it not be in the interest of British Airways pilots to support Vueling pilots in their battle against a ridiculously low pay scale ? As this could affect them in the future. Would it not be better for IAG pilots to work towards being more united ( not easy at all ) in the future ? Are there not IAG working groups coming in the future ?
It appears to me that managements seem to be rather coordinated in their attacks to lower pay in Europe, is it not time for pilots in Europe to be more united ( yes extremely difficult ) through ECA and IFALPA. As management threaten to move production from cheaper pilot group to another ? This trend of lowering pilot pay needs to stop somewhere.
When pilot pay is lowered such as in the case of Vueling, does the money saved go to the shareholders ?
CEOs Paid 273 Times More Than Workers In 2012: Study
I say that united and resolute they have a good chance. You saw the number 11,000 Euros base pay per year, there is a lot of room for a pay increase. Vueling has a huge cash reserve, and has been profitable for a number of quarters, and contributed to a an improvement in IAG´s share price.
Meanwhile the company can maintain their cost structure with their growth and a pay increase, Vueling´s current labour cost ( including non pilots ) as a % of revenue, is the second lowest in Europe, lower than Ryanair´s.
The headline reads they will be fighting for market conditions, not below. Understand, they are asking to get closer in pay to Easyjet, not the same pay. Apparently, Vueling pilots are united behind their SEPLA Vueling union.
The lowest pay of the lowest paid Vueling pilots affect European pilots and British, as its pay could be used against your companies union in future negotiations, as Vueling grows in Europe, do you agree ?
One thing they the management like to do is play one pilot group against another. For example moving production from Iberia to British Airways. For British it will possibly come to moving production to a cheaper sources of labour in the short haul to Vueling.
Would it not be in the interest of British Airways pilots to support Vueling pilots in their battle against a ridiculously low pay scale ? As this could affect them in the future. Would it not be better for IAG pilots to work towards being more united ( not easy at all ) in the future ? Are there not IAG working groups coming in the future ?
It appears to me that managements seem to be rather coordinated in their attacks to lower pay in Europe, is it not time for pilots in Europe to be more united ( yes extremely difficult ) through ECA and IFALPA. As management threaten to move production from cheaper pilot group to another ? This trend of lowering pilot pay needs to stop somewhere.
When pilot pay is lowered such as in the case of Vueling, does the money saved go to the shareholders ?
CEOs Paid 273 Times More Than Workers In 2012: Study
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: in my country
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Vueling pays as low as wizzair does.
I have no sympathy to the Vueling boys, hiring 200 hours stupid cadets with their trouser down, accepting ANYTHING to be able to sit in an A320. A 6 month contract and 830 euros gross per month plus a type rating to pay. Then you have lots of heavy landings, tailstrikes, crap english language on ATC. This airline is just a flying school. Plus they do have lots of maintenance issues. Lots, lots of issues. The spanish CAA is very concerned about that.
I have no sympathy to the Vueling boys, hiring 200 hours stupid cadets with their trouser down, accepting ANYTHING to be able to sit in an A320. A 6 month contract and 830 euros gross per month plus a type rating to pay. Then you have lots of heavy landings, tailstrikes, crap english language on ATC. This airline is just a flying school. Plus they do have lots of maintenance issues. Lots, lots of issues. The spanish CAA is very concerned about that.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: AT the bottom of your garden
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OVERPAID NIGELS
At the risk of stirring the hornets nest, come on guys, get real here. The job of airline pilot is a grossly overpaid one.
High salaries were justified in times past, because aircraft systems were complex to operate, navigation skilled and aircraft unreliable.
At best, the terminal threat to the career from unmanned airliners can only be delayed. Flight crews will have to get over themselves and rightly accept lower and lower T&Cs to stave of reality.
STOP MOANING ALL YOU NIGELS, something is better than nothing even if your standard of living is trashed.
High salaries were justified in times past, because aircraft systems were complex to operate, navigation skilled and aircraft unreliable.
At best, the terminal threat to the career from unmanned airliners can only be delayed. Flight crews will have to get over themselves and rightly accept lower and lower T&Cs to stave of reality.
STOP MOANING ALL YOU NIGELS, something is better than nothing even if your standard of living is trashed.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Universe
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wind up
hyatt, you are funny guy on a pilot forum, so funny that I forgot to laugh.
I will take the bait to this wind up, as I will take your comment as a sick wind up joke.
Hyatt Alpha
Ask the passengers who were on the flight that landed on the Hudson River if they think pilots are overpaid Nigels, ha ?
As many birds still keep flying this could happen again.
Read this link Hyatt Alpha
Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger To Congress: My Pay Has Been Cut 40 Percent In Recent Years, Pension Terminated
I will take the bait to this wind up, as I will take your comment as a sick wind up joke.
Hyatt Alpha
Ask the passengers who were on the flight that landed on the Hudson River if they think pilots are overpaid Nigels, ha ?
As many birds still keep flying this could happen again.
Read this link Hyatt Alpha
Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger To Congress: My Pay Has Been Cut 40 Percent In Recent Years, Pension Terminated
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Malaga
Age: 64
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Seasexsun, you should get better informed about some stuff...Most of the guys who entered in the last 2 years have more than 1000 TT.
Where did you get the info about "a lot" of maintenance issues, tail strikes etc?
Regarding the "crap English" if you are referring to thick Spanish accent I would point out that there is actually quite a few Europeans amongst its staff and it's definitely not the worst Spanish airline
Where did you get the info about "a lot" of maintenance issues, tail strikes etc?
Regarding the "crap English" if you are referring to thick Spanish accent I would point out that there is actually quite a few Europeans amongst its staff and it's definitely not the worst Spanish airline
Join Date: May 2000
Location: SV Marie Celeste
Posts: 655
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lets feed the troll...
We might be overpaid bus drivers in the eyes of some but while we have the key to ground the system to a stop at a cost of many millions we have bargaining power. Most people these days are not shy of using and abusing their bargaining power (specially CEOs) and neither should we. All that before we bring into play who would you like at the controls in the mythical stormy night.
We might be overpaid bus drivers in the eyes of some but while we have the key to ground the system to a stop at a cost of many millions we have bargaining power. Most people these days are not shy of using and abusing their bargaining power (specially CEOs) and neither should we. All that before we bring into play who would you like at the controls in the mythical stormy night.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: in my country
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
More than 1000 hours TT waooo respect respect 
What kind of experience, is that FI overlogging hours in VFR in spain or block hours in MIami or is that bush pilot experience or king air or metro.
Fact is that most guys are unexperienced, with a bad english level rounded up to icao level 4, they are ******* desesperate to join an airline based in spain on an A320, even for a 6 months contract with a basic pay of 830 euros/month before tax and a randam roster with 4 long sectors a day in the morning back home to rest 10 hours and back to night flights for a 2 long sectors etc etc etc.
Yes lots of maintenance issues at vueling, and the spanish CAA is behind them. Lots of nogos and captains under pressure to leave the ramp with a MEL restriction. Many problems with heavy landings due to lack of experience and proper training quality.
What kind of experience, is that FI overlogging hours in VFR in spain or block hours in MIami or is that bush pilot experience or king air or metro.
Fact is that most guys are unexperienced, with a bad english level rounded up to icao level 4, they are ******* desesperate to join an airline based in spain on an A320, even for a 6 months contract with a basic pay of 830 euros/month before tax and a randam roster with 4 long sectors a day in the morning back home to rest 10 hours and back to night flights for a 2 long sectors etc etc etc.
Yes lots of maintenance issues at vueling, and the spanish CAA is behind them. Lots of nogos and captains under pressure to leave the ramp with a MEL restriction. Many problems with heavy landings due to lack of experience and proper training quality.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Malaga
Age: 64
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, 1000 TT (many as FI IR) is not a lot but it's still much more than 200 TT required at RYR, EZY and even BA.
I agree that their working conditions are not the best in the market, but I would rather earn around €2000 during the 1st/2nd year(with social security, pension, license insurance, permanent contract after usually 12 months approx. for the vast majority...and my chosen base) than for instance work for RYR earning much more but with the working conditions that we all know.
Still waiting for evidence of the maintenance issues, nogos and MEL non- compliance you are referring to.
What you are stating is not completely true, there could be some isolated cases, but this is definitely not the norm.
I am not justifying in any case the company policy and their behaviour during the negotiations with SEPLA and in fact I think it is essential that there is an agreement that improves the working conditions and is more in line with other low cost such as EZY or NAS.
I agree that their working conditions are not the best in the market, but I would rather earn around €2000 during the 1st/2nd year(with social security, pension, license insurance, permanent contract after usually 12 months approx. for the vast majority...and my chosen base) than for instance work for RYR earning much more but with the working conditions that we all know.
Still waiting for evidence of the maintenance issues, nogos and MEL non- compliance you are referring to.
What you are stating is not completely true, there could be some isolated cases, but this is definitely not the norm.
I am not justifying in any case the company policy and their behaviour during the negotiations with SEPLA and in fact I think it is essential that there is an agreement that improves the working conditions and is more in line with other low cost such as EZY or NAS.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: AT the bottom of your garden
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Calypso
Who would I like at the controls on a stormy night?
Considering that NASA, the doyen of things technical, flying and team-working, now deem humans as approaching the end of their useful shelf life as a species, citing slowness compared to soon up-comping computer power plus the cost to the planet of consumption of finite resources, my answer is ... computer(s) will do very nicely and not some pilot with a false sense of entitlement, bemoaning the fact that airlines are struggling to make a profit because they're paying FAR too much to their under-worked pilots.
Who would I like at the controls on a stormy night?
Considering that NASA, the doyen of things technical, flying and team-working, now deem humans as approaching the end of their useful shelf life as a species, citing slowness compared to soon up-comping computer power plus the cost to the planet of consumption of finite resources, my answer is ... computer(s) will do very nicely and not some pilot with a false sense of entitlement, bemoaning the fact that airlines are struggling to make a profit because they're paying FAR too much to their under-worked pilots.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: in my country
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1000 hours TT is NOT the minimum requirement to join "Craping", the minimum is to have a CPL with 150 hours TT, and if you are from a partner school FTO it's even better. Before Vueling was merged into Clickair the minimum was 1500 hrs TT.
What about the Vueling chief pilot, spaniard ex Britania Airways who used to be very well paid and treated long time ago and explains now to the applicants that what they offer at Vueling is a 6 month contract ONLY with the type rating to be paid and a ridiculous salary of 830 euros gross per month and he dares to add "if you have a family to feed, if you have a house to pay, please stand up and leave the room, this job is NOT for you". This clown is making 15000 euros plus a month and flies very little which is good for is hoppies like montain bike and twitter.
I am in Air Europa and I really dont care about vueling but I have many friends treated like **** or experienced friends that just cant find a job in spain because Vueling is taking over all the market at low cost and hires friends of friends with NO experience and very little skills.
What about the Vueling chief pilot, spaniard ex Britania Airways who used to be very well paid and treated long time ago and explains now to the applicants that what they offer at Vueling is a 6 month contract ONLY with the type rating to be paid and a ridiculous salary of 830 euros gross per month and he dares to add "if you have a family to feed, if you have a house to pay, please stand up and leave the room, this job is NOT for you". This clown is making 15000 euros plus a month and flies very little which is good for is hoppies like montain bike and twitter.
I am in Air Europa and I really dont care about vueling but I have many friends treated like **** or experienced friends that just cant find a job in spain because Vueling is taking over all the market at low cost and hires friends of friends with NO experience and very little skills.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Worldwide
Age: 43
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I did the interview with Vueling in Barcelona in April 2012, I passed all their ridículous tests. After a week I recieved a Mail from RRHH congratulating me I was in and they would call me when the company need me.
After 7 months no news from the company, Vueling did a new pilot selection. I still was in the pool waiting so i decided to call. The answer of the company was that I had too much experience and they had changed the pilot profile.
My experience was around 2000 hours, 1000 light jet and ATPL licence.
After that I decided to go out of Spain. Now I'm flying 737NG and the company paid for my type rating.
After 7 months no news from the company, Vueling did a new pilot selection. I still was in the pool waiting so i decided to call. The answer of the company was that I had too much experience and they had changed the pilot profile.
My experience was around 2000 hours, 1000 light jet and ATPL licence.
After that I decided to go out of Spain. Now I'm flying 737NG and the company paid for my type rating.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 938
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is no doubt that Vueling pilots are paid way below the market rate, and I have no doubt their senior management are paid way above it. The problem facing Vueling, and indeed all pilots, is that if 30 of their pilots resigned tomorrow there would be 150 willing to take their place at exactly the same money. In other words, the rate of pay is determined by market forces and not what a person is worth in terms of responsibility. Vueling is now the future for British Airways, and they intend to use these economic facts (i.e. their pilots cost less than everyone else's) to really go into attack on their low cost competitors (Ryanair, easyJet, Norwegian principally, but of course Iberia as well which is a fight within a war). I do not expect this to turn into anything other than a token shout at management, who care not a jot what their pilots do or think.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: california
Age: 66
Posts: 345
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This supply and demand debate does not hold any water whatsoever in arguing pilot pay. This is why Airline management make so much effort to splinter pilot groups. The biggest factor in Pilot pay is bargaining power. If Pilots are united management are aware that we can sit aircraft on the ground and that will cost a hell of lot more than the underlying dispute.
The disappointing fact is we are not united in Europe and we therefore allow pay and conditions to be hammered.
The disappointing fact is we are not united in Europe and we therefore allow pay and conditions to be hammered.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: FUBAR
Posts: 3,348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
polax52 & Syntax Error,
You have summed the situation up perfectly, we are both blind, & our own worst enemies.
Let's see what Norwegian offer as a "permanent contract" in Spain in May (AGP base opened May 2012. . . . or will we try the same "extension" to 3 years used in HEL base ? )
At this moment we will see if the new goalposts are "Vueling" wide or (old) "Iberia" wide . . . anyone want to wager where this is going. . . . . .?
You have summed the situation up perfectly, we are both blind, & our own worst enemies.
Let's see what Norwegian offer as a "permanent contract" in Spain in May (AGP base opened May 2012. . . . or will we try the same "extension" to 3 years used in HEL base ? )
At this moment we will see if the new goalposts are "Vueling" wide or (old) "Iberia" wide . . . anyone want to wager where this is going. . . . . .?