Stop bashing "P2F"
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
From: 133*50 23*50
I feel sorry for the guy, and all cadets. He's never going to know what it's like to fly an aeroplane, not a computer. After my decade of GA (all single pilot, IFR, singles/twins, pistons/turboprops), I'd only consider an airline outfit when i stop enjoying the job.
Joined: Sep 2009
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,254
Likes: 444
From: UK
SID I echo your experience and sentiments regarding some of these new FO's. It all boils down to their attitude and expectations. Some are indeed keen and competent; unfortunately many are like this lad. In my experience they have not grasped the idea of being part of the team and just want to be seen posing as 'the' pilot. My apologies to the many who are indeed a pleasure to fly with.
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 730
Likes: 0
From: UK
All new FOs at my employer are cadets, not experienced - they stopped taking experienced FOs a fair way back. The bulk of the Brits are OAA, and to be fair the vast majority are very well adjusted.
There are also cadets from other countries, one Nor-Nor-West country which seems to specialise in producing very young, extremely arrogant kids, many of which are untrainable, arguing with TREs and LTCs alike. These are the ones who turn up scruffy, spend too much briefing time strutting in the terminal and too much turn-round time posing to embarking pax and chatting up the cabin crew. They are also prone to bringing in Go-Pro type cameras for their YouTube and Facebook videos, thinking that they are pin-up stars. They are typical products of that nation, but even from there we do see some that are very good to work with.
Cadets don't seem any better or worse on average than the experienced FOs I saw in other companies, as long as they have a good attitude. Where the difference lies is in how experienced FOs who have worked their way up have usually had enough experience to knock any attitude problems out of them and be more mature about their behaviour than the gobby minority of cadets.
Still, while average quality seems to have dropped little, TRSS and P2F will exclude many better candidates just because they can't afford to subsidise the industry.
There are also cadets from other countries, one Nor-Nor-West country which seems to specialise in producing very young, extremely arrogant kids, many of which are untrainable, arguing with TREs and LTCs alike. These are the ones who turn up scruffy, spend too much briefing time strutting in the terminal and too much turn-round time posing to embarking pax and chatting up the cabin crew. They are also prone to bringing in Go-Pro type cameras for their YouTube and Facebook videos, thinking that they are pin-up stars. They are typical products of that nation, but even from there we do see some that are very good to work with.
Cadets don't seem any better or worse on average than the experienced FOs I saw in other companies, as long as they have a good attitude. Where the difference lies is in how experienced FOs who have worked their way up have usually had enough experience to knock any attitude problems out of them and be more mature about their behaviour than the gobby minority of cadets.
Still, while average quality seems to have dropped little, TRSS and P2F will exclude many better candidates just because they can't afford to subsidise the industry.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: Crawley, UK
LOL
LOL - you guys are killing me with your issues.
I'm 19 and I fly a jet. Don't care what you have to say - never will.
Now quit bashing me and P2F when I made a good argument for it (I never actually did it but I think it's a good idea).
Got to go - Geneva calls.
Have fun sitting at home and writing about me - I'll be sitting in the clouds enjoying the view.
I'm 19 and I fly a jet. Don't care what you have to say - never will.
Now quit bashing me and P2F when I made a good argument for it (I never actually did it but I think it's a good idea).
Got to go - Geneva calls.
Have fun sitting at home and writing about me - I'll be sitting in the clouds enjoying the view.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
From: United Kingdom
Put the popcorn back on guys. This one could get long!
p.s. enjoy Geneva, 19 years and 2 months, easy jet FO based in Gatwick went to OAA and who's dad flew for BA. I really hope that is a very elaborate back story, otherwise your stupidity dumbfounds me.
p.s. enjoy Geneva, 19 years and 2 months, easy jet FO based in Gatwick went to OAA and who's dad flew for BA. I really hope that is a very elaborate back story, otherwise your stupidity dumbfounds me.
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
From: columbo and the city
who cares?
who cares how old this guy is! its the same for all guys at easyjet, ryanair, thomson etc..
IT'S ALL PAY TO FLY...
with the exception of some who came through the forces, and one or two through BA FP, we all paid..
Who got their PPL, CPL IR etc paid for...?
who got a salary while doing the above... lest than 5% of us under 35...
IT'S ALL PAY TO FLY...
with the exception of some who came through the forces, and one or two through BA FP, we all paid..
Who got their PPL, CPL IR etc paid for...?
who got a salary while doing the above... lest than 5% of us under 35...
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,306
Likes: 0
From: Canada
The outfit I flew for during many years of great working conditions, good well maintained aircraft, good benifits and pay, and the very best guys/galls to work with tried a "direct entry" hire as an experiment many years ago, the best comment I ever heard came from an ex RCAF, DFC and Bar captain who was a joy to fly with, when asked by the chief pilot what he thought of these F/Os S/Os he replied thus. "Some are OK, but really struggle with basic flying skills, however the bigest problem I see is getting their 
heads through the cockpit door!" He passed away recently, one of the best!
heads through the cockpit door!" He passed away recently, one of the best!
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,954
Likes: 0
From: England
Simple solution for dweebs like this is to only let them P2P2.
There you go young lad, you've paid one hundred and twenty grand to be the radio operator and that's what you'll be until your attitude is adjusted.
There you go young lad, you've paid one hundred and twenty grand to be the radio operator and that's what you'll be until your attitude is adjusted.
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
From: columbo and the city
p2f
ok so the line is drawn at line training is it then?
how many of these easyjet/ryanair/wings cadets are now BA? or emirates a380? or now captians, TREs etc on 6 figure salaries?
This is how it is...
depending on who is complaining, the goalposts are moved all the time to suit the complaint..
In this industry you have to remain competitive..
how many of these easyjet/ryanair/wings cadets are now BA? or emirates a380? or now captians, TREs etc on 6 figure salaries?
This is how it is...
depending on who is complaining, the goalposts are moved all the time to suit the complaint..
In this industry you have to remain competitive..
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
From: Temple Of Doom
"Its all irrelevant. If you dont go through OAA or CTC its highly unlikely you will secure a job in the UK flying a jet. Thats the top and bottom of it."
That is simply NOT true.
It's probably not true now but I think not to far in the distant future it will be extremely hard to secure an Airline Jet Job unless you go to the likes of OAA and CTC.
I do think you probably still be able to go modular and work you way up the ladder in Corporate though, but if the allure of big shiny jets is what you want Corporates probably not the way forward as you will not be able to apply for jobs because you will be lacking time on type.
That is simply NOT true.
It's probably not true now but I think not to far in the distant future it will be extremely hard to secure an Airline Jet Job unless you go to the likes of OAA and CTC.
I do think you probably still be able to go modular and work you way up the ladder in Corporate though, but if the allure of big shiny jets is what you want Corporates probably not the way forward as you will not be able to apply for jobs because you will be lacking time on type.
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 995
Likes: 103
From: Botswana
Superpilot BA stopped taking cadet pilots from Oxford over five years ago and I should know seeing I was at the meeting with John Monks when he announced the end of the SSP programme. Since then they have recruited once, in 2011, in which they took exclusively Direct Entry (type rated however) pilots. So your information on the cadet story at Oxford is a little out of date.
Not going to argue with you on the FPP score though as obviously that is also recruitment albeit a further time in advance.
And would you like to know about the 40+ year old ex Naples Air Center graduate employed by easyJet in their latest recruitment drive? Yes there are some rules that seem to be in place but they do not universally apply and there are exceptions. This forum is so damn negative all the time that it makes me want to delete my account and never visit again!!
Not going to argue with you on the FPP score though as obviously that is also recruitment albeit a further time in advance.
And would you like to know about the 40+ year old ex Naples Air Center graduate employed by easyJet in their latest recruitment drive? Yes there are some rules that seem to be in place but they do not universally apply and there are exceptions. This forum is so damn negative all the time that it makes me want to delete my account and never visit again!!
Last edited by RexBanner; 21st January 2014 at 14:05.
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,832
Likes: 115
From: UK
Didn't I read somewhere that the new BA cadet scheme (FPP) requires the candidate to put £84,000 up front? This will be repaid over a period of seven years, which is fine but you still need £84,000 to get your foot on the ladder.
Is that not still the case?
Is that not still the case?