Do YOU work for a great company!
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: RSA
Age: 39
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Al Murdoch said it so well.
I have to agree with everything you said.
From my side of the world, Africa things are interesting and challenging in their own way. The current operator I'm working for has lots of bad rep. However they always pay on time, I've never had a problem asking for leave, the crew are all great to work with and that adds a great deal to the job satisfaction.
Salary is never enough is it? However we are compensated by not working much at all. In fact we are almost guaranteed to have every weekend off
Flarepilot your closing line is excellent! I could also have done much much worse.
Overall I'm am happy where I am.
I have to agree with everything you said.
From my side of the world, Africa things are interesting and challenging in their own way. The current operator I'm working for has lots of bad rep. However they always pay on time, I've never had a problem asking for leave, the crew are all great to work with and that adds a great deal to the job satisfaction.
Salary is never enough is it? However we are compensated by not working much at all. In fact we are almost guaranteed to have every weekend off
Flarepilot your closing line is excellent! I could also have done much much worse.
Overall I'm am happy where I am.
I have worked for good and bad companies. The baddies all had a few things in common:
- Senior management who looked after their own interests at all costs.
- Marketing/Sales people held in very high esteem, regardless of productivity; big budget for advertising and marketing activities.
- Operations and maintenance people tolerated only (and barely) for their essential skills; minimal budget for training and maintenance
- Aircraft with repetitive defects.
- Always short of crew due to poor planning or inadequate budgeting; consequent pressures to bust duty limits and give up leave or days off.
- Every opportunity to erode pilot terms and conditions taken by Management on the basis that other pilots could come in and do the job for less (sadly dogs do eat dogs).
- Bills not paid on time, or at all.
- As the inevitable bankruptcy approached, dishonest dealings with staff entitlements, evasion of tax liabilities.
The good guys also had several things in common:
- Senior management took a genuine interest in ensuring that staff entitlements were met first, creditors next.
- Operations and maintenance budgets set and honoured.
- Defects cleared as soon as reasonably possible.
- Usually enough crew to do the job; when temporary shortages required extra input, a program to restore days off by adding to annual leave, or financial recompense.
- Firm but fair contract conditions - all parties expected to keep their side of the deal.
I am indeed fortunate to be dealing with such an organisation now.
- Senior management who looked after their own interests at all costs.
- Marketing/Sales people held in very high esteem, regardless of productivity; big budget for advertising and marketing activities.
- Operations and maintenance people tolerated only (and barely) for their essential skills; minimal budget for training and maintenance
- Aircraft with repetitive defects.
- Always short of crew due to poor planning or inadequate budgeting; consequent pressures to bust duty limits and give up leave or days off.
- Every opportunity to erode pilot terms and conditions taken by Management on the basis that other pilots could come in and do the job for less (sadly dogs do eat dogs).
- Bills not paid on time, or at all.
- As the inevitable bankruptcy approached, dishonest dealings with staff entitlements, evasion of tax liabilities.
The good guys also had several things in common:
- Senior management took a genuine interest in ensuring that staff entitlements were met first, creditors next.
- Operations and maintenance budgets set and honoured.
- Defects cleared as soon as reasonably possible.
- Usually enough crew to do the job; when temporary shortages required extra input, a program to restore days off by adding to annual leave, or financial recompense.
- Firm but fair contract conditions - all parties expected to keep their side of the deal.
I am indeed fortunate to be dealing with such an organisation now.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: I wouldn't know.
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Good or bad? Dunno really, the money is not really great nor bad, around 100k € a year as a normal FO, rising to around 115k in three years, that's nearly three times the average wage in my country. If i happen to get that elusive command it will raise by around 20 to 30k. Rostering is quite often bad, but we do work on that and it is getting better. There is always the possibility to call in sick or unfit to fly without any repercussion anyway. Since there was a change in management nearly 10 months back the attitude towards pilots has changed quite a lot and things are changing for the better.
I have worked in IT before and quite honestly my current lifestyle, while sometimes erratic, is a lot better than in that line of work. Around 11 days off a month, quite often up to 14 days, no work to take home (except for my second job as a union rep) and not too many nights in a hotel at the moment makes for quite a good living.
All in all, despite all the moaning it is not bad, especially if considering the state of the economy and that i supposedly work for one of the, well, worst airlines in Europe.
I have worked in IT before and quite honestly my current lifestyle, while sometimes erratic, is a lot better than in that line of work. Around 11 days off a month, quite often up to 14 days, no work to take home (except for my second job as a union rep) and not too many nights in a hotel at the moment makes for quite a good living.
All in all, despite all the moaning it is not bad, especially if considering the state of the economy and that i supposedly work for one of the, well, worst airlines in Europe.
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
Age: 55
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The problem is that as a newjoiner you will nowadays usually sign a different contract than your coworkers did a few years ago.
I work for Cathay, which certainly was a great airline a few years ago,
but has terrible conditions for anyone signing up now...
I work for Cathay, which certainly was a great airline a few years ago,
but has terrible conditions for anyone signing up now...
no work to take home
I don't know about other pilots but I used to do quite a bit of homework looking ahead at charts for next rostered duty, reading manuals etc (not all the time I hasten to add).
I think quite a few pilots do a lot of preparation when they are not on duty - not technically legally required but, if you are a professional, very much part of the job.
Denti just for clarification are you saying that your FOs gross between 8,000 and 9,500 euros a month? It is not a particularly well kept secret that the union has done a good job. But that seems a good wage even if you factor in the risk that it may not continue indefinitely.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: I wouldn't know.
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@fireflybob in the beginning i used to do that as well, however our route network isn't all that big so i do know all airports we fly to for quite some time now. Manuals, yes, of course we will have the odd changes, about every week. However that is something i take with me when downroute, and then we have our scheduled hometraining days, four times a year at least, which are used for that, besides doing all the open CBT courses.
@lederhosen, in the top end if averaged over a year, yes. However it is not as simple as that and quite some part of it can be a lump sum payment at the end of the year if rostering wasn't clever enough. Starting pay for new joiners (type rating funded by the company of course, some even get two of them) is around 55k, so there is quite a bit of a change over time.
@lederhosen, in the top end if averaged over a year, yes. However it is not as simple as that and quite some part of it can be a lump sum payment at the end of the year if rostering wasn't clever enough. Starting pay for new joiners (type rating funded by the company of course, some even get two of them) is around 55k, so there is quite a bit of a change over time.
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Europe
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Beside the fact that Ryanair is killing the aviation industry I think that pilots haves good working conditions 5 ON 4 OFF, jumpseats, money is not too bad.
On the other side, they got a month with no salary and they can be kicked out at short notice since these guy's are freelance.
What I'd like to say is that as long as you're flying with them, life is quite ok.
There is still some good conditions out there but these are more and more difficult to find.
Flarepilot is right, a lot of us are 'still' lucky!
Some airlines results are going down and some are just incredibly rising, especially in the cargo airlines.
On the other side, they got a month with no salary and they can be kicked out at short notice since these guy's are freelance.
What I'd like to say is that as long as you're flying with them, life is quite ok.
There is still some good conditions out there but these are more and more difficult to find.
Flarepilot is right, a lot of us are 'still' lucky!
Some airlines results are going down and some are just incredibly rising, especially in the cargo airlines.
