Retirement Age and Crewing Requirements
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wanaka
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Retirement Age and Crewing Requirements
Apparently the ICAO ANC has approved the proposal to limit all pilots in commercial operations to pilots up to their 65th birthday. They have also approved the removal of all pairing restrictions beyond age 60. This will become effective on the 14th of November 2014 when this will become the ICAO Standard.
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: france
Posts: 760
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you to all these who battled for that.
Mean experience of pilots will be increasing.
Helping young retiring Military Pilots to get airline pilots would help a Country to keepc savoir-faire and benefit of better selection, formation and experrience.
Mean experience of pilots will be increasing.
Helping young retiring Military Pilots to get airline pilots would help a Country to keepc savoir-faire and benefit of better selection, formation and experrience.
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 730
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That is good news. Now to get the retirement age dropped completely - my generation in the UK won't get a pension until 69, so what are we meant to do for the intervening 4 years? I suspect other nationalities face a similar problem. Many of us can't afford significant private pensions, even on company schemes, to make up the difference, and contractors get no company pensions at all. I don't see why the authorities or companies should be able to impose ageist regulations when EU policies demand otherwise. Surely any pilot should have the right to continue working as long as they are fit and competent. as checked by medicals and LPCs? Let us have the choice of retiring at any age, not just prior to 65.
Now cue the whining from young FOs about selfishness of captains refusing to hand over their jobs, ironically unable to see the hypocrisy of their selfishness in craving of ultra-quick commands and how easily and quickly many of them got their first airline jobs compared to older generations...
Now cue the whining from young FOs about selfishness of captains refusing to hand over their jobs, ironically unable to see the hypocrisy of their selfishness in craving of ultra-quick commands and how easily and quickly many of them got their first airline jobs compared to older generations...
Last edited by Aluminium shuffler; 2nd Nov 2013 at 14:44.
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
Alumimium Shuffler; I've been giving this one a bit of thought. It would make a very interesting case if someone actually brought it to court that the government is taking away a person's means of earning a salary whilst not entitling them to a pension. I'm sure the European Court of Human Rights would have something to say. I wish good luck to anyone who tries. I only had four employers in forty years and two of them were for twelve and twenty-four; and yes, I know how lucky I am.
Surely anyone who joined the game would have known there's going to be a gap between retiring and being eligible for a state pension, if - that is - the country they live in hands out a meaningful state pension at all.
Yes, the age for eligibility has been rising all over Europe, but so has the retirement age for pilots. 55, at one time, then 60, now 65.
Thus, one could possibly argue that anyone who failed to make plans for the gap years only has himself to blame. Perhaps the answer is NOT to continue flying until you're at an age where you are, for all intents and purposes, unemployable in another field. Perhaps time could have been used to learn a new trick or two, maybe create a small business, and drop out early while there is still a chance to have a go at something else, something without a mandatory retirement age. If the flying bug is still there, join an aeroclub and muck about in a bugsmasher or, even better, a glider.
Yes, the age for eligibility has been rising all over Europe, but so has the retirement age for pilots. 55, at one time, then 60, now 65.
Thus, one could possibly argue that anyone who failed to make plans for the gap years only has himself to blame. Perhaps the answer is NOT to continue flying until you're at an age where you are, for all intents and purposes, unemployable in another field. Perhaps time could have been used to learn a new trick or two, maybe create a small business, and drop out early while there is still a chance to have a go at something else, something without a mandatory retirement age. If the flying bug is still there, join an aeroclub and muck about in a bugsmasher or, even better, a glider.
Last edited by SMT Member; 2nd Nov 2013 at 17:24.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: schermoney and left front seat
Age: 57
Posts: 2,438
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Surely anyone who joined the game would have known there's going to be a gap between retiring and being eligible for a state pension, if - that is - the country they live in hands out a meaningful state pension at all.
Thus, one could possibly argue that anyone who failed to make plans for the gap years only has himself to blame.
Thus, one could possibly argue that anyone who failed to make plans for the gap years only has himself to blame.
Along comes politics and all of a sudden 67 is the new pension age (Germany)
So, no, I didn´t think there would be a gap, retirement age has been 65 for a long time in Germany, actually there was a time not very long ago, when early retirement was encouraged by politicians and a lot of folks retired at 57, 58, 59 ish...
Like in so many fields, the politicians screw our life up by changing the rules and now I should blame myself? Don´t think so...
Last edited by His dudeness; 2nd Nov 2013 at 17:53.
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: france
Posts: 760
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Aluminium shuffler
Surely any pilot should have the right to continue working as long as they are fit and competent. as checked by medicals and LPCs? Let us have the choice of retiring at any age, not just prior to 65
Originally Posted by Herod
It would make a very interesting case if someone actually brought it to court that the government is taking away a person's means of earning a salary whilst not entitling them to a pension. I'm sure the European Court of Human Rights would have something to say
But the EU Luxembourg Court protects against such discrimination, it was that Court who gave right to pilots to fly until 65.
Originally Posted by SMT Member
If the flying bug is still there, join an aeroclub and muck about in a bugsmasher or, even better, a glider.
We are flying in a garbagge world due to economical garbagge due to financial garbagge. We must stop the banksters and their beancounsters who respects only "possible" statistical air safety. I hope young people will understand that the oldest people are not their ennemis, and the young FO have to learn with empathy from the older pilots who were able to survive. (So do the elephants in nature !)
As "other" aircrew I found myself out of a job well before my retirement age so what is the difference suddenly for the two winged master race If you cannot plan for your retirement there must be some very strange reasons. In my 30 years of flying I managed to save for the retirement and I still have a few years to go yet. Find another job and live life a little.
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 913
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was talking about this issue to a Union rep a couple of days ago and his take was that to have a compulsory retirement age less than the state pensionable age contravenes current EU age discrimination laws and was open to legal challenge. IMHO, by the time I retire the pilot retirement age will be at least 66, but along the way there will be numerous fudges and stalling tactics from employers attempting to avoid paying pilots to do nothing or little or paying them off.
WRT early retirement, I'd be only to happy to go next year at 55, unfortunately successive governments have robbed us of pension entitlement and tax efficiency's to make that possible.
WRT early retirement, I'd be only to happy to go next year at 55, unfortunately successive governments have robbed us of pension entitlement and tax efficiency's to make that possible.
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 226
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The first age band in the UK to be affected by the shift in retirement rules are those born after 1953 - for them the retirement age is now 66. I was born in 1954 so I plan on retiring from aviation in 2020 in accordance with the new regulations. I've already spoken to my boss about this and he knows it's just another can of worms waiting to be opened!
He said he will give me another job - maybe a pushback driver for the last year!
He said he will give me another job - maybe a pushback driver for the last year!
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Northampton
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I cant see what all the fuss is about. All my flying life I knew I would have to leave flying before the state retirement age. But then you would not want to live on the state pension anyway, and you did your utmost to make sure you had a half decent arrangements to live after retirement. For some unlucky people it did not work but for most it did. Whatever you do someone will lose out. That's life!!.
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
rogerg; are you sure about that? All my commercial life the retirement age ( the age at which the licence validity lapses) has been 65. Granted, lots of companies had a retirement age of 60, but that didn't prevent taking a position with one that didn't. In fact, my old company had the option for jet captains to transfer to turbo-prop captain at 60 if desired. No, it didn't clog the system, since mosts F.O.s wanted to transfer turbo RHS to jet RHS rather than turbo LHS. This new regulation would appear to create a gap where the licence is no longer valid, but the state pension is not available. I agree that the state pension isn't liveable, but some people, through no fault of their own, don't have any other option.
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Cyprus
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Herod, I do not know what your licence says but my EASA ATPL, renewed earlier this year at age 66, states 'This licence shall remain in force for the holder's lifetime unless revoked, suspended or varied. The privileges of the licence shall be exercised only if the holder has a valid medical certificate for the required privilege.'
As I renewed my class 1 medical last week I intend to continue using the licence for some time yet and am in the process of adding an additional rating.
I wonder what the reaction of current 'Corporate' pilots and the over 65s in Australia and New Zealand will be?
As I renewed my class 1 medical last week I intend to continue using the licence for some time yet and am in the process of adding an additional rating.
I wonder what the reaction of current 'Corporate' pilots and the over 65s in Australia and New Zealand will be?
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Ormond Beach
Age: 49
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Aluminum shuffler
Now cue the whining from young FOs about selfishness of captains refusing to hand over their jobs, ironically unable to see the hypocrisy of their selfishness in craving of ultra-quick commands and how easily and quickly many of them got their first airline jobs compared to older generations...
Last edited by flyboyike; 3rd Nov 2013 at 19:27.
It might be against the law to discriminate on the basis of age but that just means companies can't officially state that applicants above a certain age need not apply. There are always means of stating why a person is not suitable for a position which has nothing to do with there age. So it doesn't matter what skills you have outside of aviation if you are older than 50 forget it you will find it difficult to change careers. Given the change of government rules regarding retirement age I would not be relying on the government for any sort of pension. Fortunately in what many consider an aviation backwater (Australia), a somewhat enlightened government in the 80's made it compulsory for employers to pay into a superannuation fund currently at 9% of salary. Not a perfect system as various governments since then have changed the tax rulings regarding super, but they realized a long way back that the government could not afford to keep supplying indexed pensions to a rapidly ageing population and a shrinking workforce.
That statement is precisely why you don't rely on the government to provide for you in old age.
actually there was a time not very long ago, when early retirement was encouraged by politicians and a lot of folks retired at 57, 58, 59 ish...