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Old 30th Sep 2013, 10:27
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: UK
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Many pilots simply won't have decent pensions because their companies won't make reasonable arrangements, especially for contractors, and with the current cost of living, many have family commitments that tie up their income preventing significant personal schemes. So, most pilots simply won't be able to retire early. Remember that the UK has announced a state pension age of 69 already, so there is already a big problem for many who will retire at 65, never mind earlier.

Given that historically it used to take donkeys years to get into the lhs of a jet and quick commands are a relatively new phenomenon, isn't it a little bit rich for FOs to be whining about skippers being selfish by continuing to work and not giving said FOs their positions and pay? As for demanding that current captains have to retire early so that the complainant can also retire early, it smacks a little of hypocrisy, to be honest...
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Old 30th Sep 2013, 10:44
  #22 (permalink)  
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I understand that people aren't retiring, people are on ULV, BMI pilots have filled the ranks but are there still enough people to crew the new aircraft?

Last edited by Threethirty; 30th Sep 2013 at 10:46.
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Old 30th Sep 2013, 11:14
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Three thirty. We have the first of the Future Pilot programme cadets joining us on the 73 or 320 in the next few months. I have heard rumours of potentially up to 5000 flight crew on BA's books in the next 5 years or so with the increased long haul flying programmer now BA has the extra slots after the BMI takeover? If that is the case, that is an extra 1500 jobs not even taking in to account the inevitable retirements but that is rumour control & I guess will depend on an ever improving world economy. Unfortunately with the lack of airport expansion in the UK & second highest airport taxes in the world (after Chad I believe) we can take nothing for granted.
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Old 30th Sep 2013, 11:32
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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5000 flight crew on BA's books in the next 5 years or so? Ha ha ha ha!
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Old 30th Sep 2013, 12:12
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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HA HA HA indeed! All BA pilots are continuously driven to be more 'productive'. More significant changes coming for SH next year. That's before EASA ignore the scientists to crank up the workload ever higher. We have 3700-3800 pilots at the moment. The Airbus is over crewed, and we are already flying two new fleets. Further additions will, by and large be replacements rather than expansion hulls. I predict BA pilot numbers will peak well below 4000, before falling back to where we are now. Just in time for Vueling's 60 plus new A320s to take over the rump of BA's SH operation.

It may even prove to be a mistake to rule out A350s being operated by non mainline crews on behalf of IAG?

Change is definitely coming to BA!

Last edited by 4468; 30th Sep 2013 at 13:23.
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Old 30th Sep 2013, 18:16
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Is that what you think will happen, or is it what you want to happen? Let's all race to the bottom! If BA allow non-mainline crew to fly the 350 then everyone in UK aviation is screwed as far as T&Cs are concerned.
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Old 30th Sep 2013, 18:45
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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If BA allow non-mainline crew to fly the 350 then everyone in UK aviation is screwed as far as T&Cs are concerned.
No, just current mainline pilots will be
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Old 30th Sep 2013, 19:33
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Juan

Have you been in BA long enough to remember when BA offered LGW 777 flying on charter T&Cs for anyone willing to step outside of BLRs?

People were nearly killed in the stampede for early commands. That was before 'stagnation', and I was one of them!

There would be MASSIVE appetite for such a deal on A350s!

To think otherwise is idiotic.

Last edited by 4468; 30th Sep 2013 at 19:34.
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Old 30th Sep 2013, 19:40
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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If the company that has the country's leading terms and conditions slashes those conditions, what do you think will happen to the terms and conditions elsewhere?

4421 - there were many different contracts back then with EOG etc. that does not mean that your desire to see BA pilots split into many reduced contracts will happen in the future.
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Old 30th Sep 2013, 22:43
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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4421 - there were many different contracts back then with EOG etc. that does not mean that your desire to see BA pilots split into many reduced contracts will happen in the future.
Already has happened; last year's B scale contracts with 34 PP's.
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Old 30th Sep 2013, 22:56
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Oh here we go...
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Old 30th Sep 2013, 23:14
  #32 (permalink)  
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Sounding more and more like Cathay! You'll be voting for contract compliance next...

Last edited by Threethirty; 30th Sep 2013 at 23:16.
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Old 1st Oct 2013, 00:02
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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If the company that has the country's leading terms and conditions slashes those conditions, what do you think will happen to the terms and conditions elsewhere?
Frankly, nobody other than those offering a totally specious argument to justify their 'leading terms and conditions' gives a !

The desire for BA pilots to be split came from within, not from without!!!

The hunger is still there!
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Old 1st Oct 2013, 16:38
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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The market has changed significantly - the days of retiring at 55 is simply laughable even if you wanted to.

The BA days of earning 150k+ will become history, and we will look at today as a rosy period for BA flightdeck.

When BA drops T&Cs, everyone moves down a notch and even BA has to maintain a competitive position of sorts. That said, its offer to new cadets is very fair in the current environment and should be praised.

Those entering BA going forwards, however, have to be realistic but it's still the best place in the South of England to work and is just on the same downward trend as the industry overall.
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Old 1st Oct 2013, 17:16
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Those entering BA going forwards, however, have to be realistic but it's still the best place in the South of England to work and is just on the same downward trend as the industry overall.
RHS yes, that statement too simplistic otherwise (things have actually improved in certain areas recently).

Last edited by Fat Dog; 3rd Oct 2013 at 22:23.
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Old 2nd Oct 2013, 02:38
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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BA T&Cs will get worse, but it's still the best place to work as a commercial pilot in the UK. If you want the big money faster post pay-point 34 scales, sadly you need to move overseas. The aviation world is evolving whether we in the pilot profession like it or not.
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Old 2nd Oct 2013, 10:18
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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it's still the best place to work as a commercial pilot in the UK
A bold statement! I think there are some who would beg to differ
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Old 2nd Oct 2013, 12:47
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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FANS said:

When BA drops T&Cs, everyone moves down a notch and even BA has to maintain a competitive position of sorts. That said, its offer to new cadets is very fair in the current environment and should be praised.



Inviting young wonder kids to remortgage their parents house to the tune of 84,000... Very fair... Well done Willie!
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Old 2nd Oct 2013, 13:38
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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No cadet has remortgaged their parent's house to fund training. That was the whole idea in the first place.
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Old 2nd Oct 2013, 14:01
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Cool

BA T&Cs will get worse, but it's still the best place to work as a commercial pilot in the UK
At the arse end of the seniority list at BA it is worth knowing that there are jobs in the UK that will give you more consecutive days off, more whole weekends off and faster access to progression. However if these are all essentials then don't apply to BA!

It offers stability and security, a fair contract - even with PP34. Would I attempt to join again, I don't know. I will probably have lost 400 places on the list and 10 points on the pay scale after passing through the hoops of the last DEP campaign, only to be drowned by a bunch of bmiers and FPP hotshots
Still, a pretty good gig and if I was joining as a cadet in his or her mid to early twenties, I'd be laughing.
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