Non-TR DEC and FO Recruitment Jet2
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
From: Hemel Hempstead
I Love flying. There is a lot more opportunity to fly on a turbo prop, than be stuck managing a jet. Those that go straight on to jets, considered by some to be lucky, really have missed out on a fantastic opportunity to do some real flying, in strong cross winds, into short runways, with non precision approaches, and limited ATC services outside controlled airspace, daily practise raw data hand flying skills, in icing conditions, during high frequency short sectors with quick turnarounds, most of which is frowned upon in jet companies. The experience and skills gained will stick with a pilot for theyre entire career and make them a better pilot. Yet big jet companies to answer questions about lack of experience, say training needs to be looked at, I say no, recruit turbo prop pilots and your pilot work force will have the skills, developed over years of flying that you cannot train in a small section of a sim detail. If I was in recruitment I would be mandating turboprop experience, good job for CTC I'm not. There have always been guys lucky enough to go straight onto jets, but now it seems even changing type is frowned upon, chief pilots are missing a trick. If I was recruiting, which I now feel strongly motivated to work towards, in a career company, I would consider experience on type irrelevant long term, that's something you'll get flying for a company for decades, which the current employees have. It's the experience you bring as a new entrant, that I can't teach and the company as a whole may be able to learn from that would be of interest to me. But hey the bean counters have won, I just count my lucky stars I've flown turbo props before jets, and so should my passengers. It's silly managing safe flight has less to do with type but how you approach a situation, isn't that what we are taught in command courses, and have to demonstrate during a command assessment? That's why command upgrade often involves change of type. If you are ready for command the type experience on type helps but is not necessary. In my opinion, It's crazy that turboprop experience is considered worthless. 500 hours on type is worthless, which could be 250 sectors and 150 landings, thanks to RV ILSs on to 3000m runways. Companies like Royal Brunei have the right idea, if they must select cadets they are sent to gain experience in a Regional turbo prop company first before making theyre way onto a heavy jet. I'd pick a 2000 hour turbo prop FO with 2000 sectors and 1000 landings onto 1200m runways in 40 knot gusting winds anytime. Shame I'm not in a position to do so, if and when I do, CTC watchout...
I do apologise, rant over, and thread drift over.
I do apologise, rant over, and thread drift over.
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,954
Likes: 0
From: England
Paul,
None of that is frowned on at Jet2. Indeed sometimes you can't avoid icing or crosswinds 
and I've flown more raw data approaches since I've been here than in the last 15 years, despite having done the turbo prop thing too.
You may well be right that there is more opportunity to fly a turbo prop, but having done both I can state that there is no more willingness to hand fly, raw data, a Dash than there is a 737 especially on your sixth multi sector day at the arse end of the clock, in fact see above and I think the opposite is true. Go figure. You also have to manage a turbo prop and all the modern ones have got the same number of gizmos as a jet. So all in all, these days, it's much of a muchness.
Which leads me to my final point -
I happen to know that Jet2 has recently employed at least one DEC who has ONLY got TP hours. So you can't say Jet2 consider TP time as worthless, in fact they obviously agree with you!
real flying, in strong cross winds, into short runways, with non precision approaches, and limited ATC services outside controlled airspace, daily practise raw data hand flying skills, in icing conditions, during high frequency short sectors with quick turnarounds, most of which is frowned upon in jet companies.
and I've flown more raw data approaches since I've been here than in the last 15 years, despite having done the turbo prop thing too.
There is a lot more opportunity to fly on a turbo prop, than be stuck managing a jet.
Which leads me to my final point -
I happen to know that Jet2 has recently employed at least one DEC who has ONLY got TP hours. So you can't say Jet2 consider TP time as worthless, in fact they obviously agree with you!
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
From: Hemel Hempstead
You are right and jet 2 is the exception. Of course we all manage automation, (if any thing a number of TPs are more advanced than the jets assembled by Boeing and Airbus) and we choose appropriate times for hand flying / practising. The frustrations identified above just spilled out after reading the last few comments. It's a shame the comment is on the jet 2 thread as it's not directly applicable to jet 2. The comments are based on the challenges experienced moving onwards and upwards from regional turbo prop flying. Thanks for reading. Good luck to all those that move on to jet 2 by all accounts they are a good employer, who are a pleasure to work for.
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 272
Likes: 0
From: UK
I really don't understand what's going on with this years recruitment. From the inside I hear that guys on part time contracts are being asked to go full time as we are short of pilots for next summer, yet on here there are clearly lots of guys waiting with no word from Leeds on assessments / job offers. Unfortunately Jet2 from an HR/bean counter perspective likes to try and be clever with numbers and try to get away with as few as possible. Flight ops know how many are required but don't seem to have enough influence to get them assessed and recruited 
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 683
Likes: 0
From: In Space
Penworth:
Jet2 have a habit of offering 70% first then next season 100%. I personally think each department should recruit there own with help of HR.
No offence to HR but what would they know about what makes a good pilot or not? Verbal and maths reasoning doesn't prove anything at all, Which has been proven in the last recruitment drive.
Recruitment involves a lot of time and money and personnel, so why not let the other departments help out and reduce the work load.
Team work people
Jet2 have a habit of offering 70% first then next season 100%. I personally think each department should recruit there own with help of HR.
No offence to HR but what would they know about what makes a good pilot or not? Verbal and maths reasoning doesn't prove anything at all, Which has been proven in the last recruitment drive.
Recruitment involves a lot of time and money and personnel, so why not let the other departments help out and reduce the work load.
Team work people
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,954
Likes: 0
From: England
Of course, recruitment isn't just based on experience, just as important are the soft skills and personality. Maybe the chaps who got in with only TP time are the right sort.
Joined: Sep 2008
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 940
Likes: 57
From: Scotland
Speaking to one of my colleagues who is making the switch, it sounds like Jet2 are really rushing rated guys through - sim and fire training, then only 12 sectors line training as they need them on the line ASAP.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
From: Midlands, UK
Phew! All those folk on 50% salary whilst training will be so relieved! It this also a good time to mention a bond for something that the company are legally required to do...
Sorry...just not on planet StopStart!
Sorry...just not on planet StopStart!
Thread Starter
Champagne anyone...?
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 1,422
Likes: 0
From: EGDL
You wouldn't enjoy Planet StopStart anyway H. It's all far too relaxed and chilled out here. 
Amusingly and for what it's worth, I no longer work for Jet2. I am still however happy to defend them as a decent enough employer.
Amusingly and for what it's worth, I no longer work for Jet2. I am still however happy to defend them as a decent enough employer.
