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Non type rated easyjet recruitment?

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Non type rated easyjet recruitment?

Old 9th Oct 2013, 00:53
  #1181 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 942
Narrow Runway - just to clarify, nothing in my reply accepts that easyJet tried or is going to try and reduce Captains' terms and conditions. It is totally self-evident that any employer only wants to pay what it can get away with. The key thing is what protections are in place - we have a lot and an undoubted willingness to fight any changes of the sort you believe will happen. A discussion of this kind is like saying, 'The reason an atom bomb did not drop at 2.00pm this afternoon was that two fairies appeared at the bottom of my garden'. It is not really provable one way or the other, and the statement therefore has to be evaluated on the balance of probabilities or past experience. All I can say is that at this stage, easyJet management are openly saying they will not attack UK Captains' salaries. We can debate this until the cows come home - that is what is being said and I see no change in sight. As an aside, I have personally heard it said among the highest easyJet managers that 'UK salaries are about right'. You can obviously choose to believe what you want about that, but at this stage all I can say is that I stand by my view that for the foreseeable future UK Captains' salaries are safe.
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Old 9th Oct 2013, 07:16
  #1182 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Bartholomew Arms
Posts: 204
no point replying to someone who will not believe the facts unless they fit his own conspiracy theory.....
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Old 9th Oct 2013, 07:34
  #1183 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: EU
Age: 44
Posts: 865
Justagigolo77. You are rapidly getting a reputation as bad as NR's. that of being delusional.

"Tossed aside"? Better to look a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt. Speak not of what you haven't a clue about.
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Old 9th Oct 2013, 08:56
  #1184 (permalink)  

Mach 3
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Stratosphere
Posts: 622
The significance of this one line will not be lost on some:

Despite the ramblings of Narrow Runway and his mad mates, the Captain contract is still 100% intact, which was a critical concession easyJet had to bite the bullet over.
Paraphrased, should it say

"As long as you don't touch Captain's contracts, offer what you like to new-joiners?"

Suffice to say, I know first-hand this is not an easy industrial issue to deal with, but I'm curious....
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Old 9th Oct 2013, 11:57
  #1185 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: The IMF.
Posts: 537
Phensocks: I'm not delusional, I'm a realist.

How can I be delusional when you look around at the industry and see the trends?

You've allowed Pandora's box to be opened and generally, it has unintended consequences.

I'm not going to argue with you. As I said, let's see what happens.

Last edited by Narrow Runway; 9th Oct 2013 at 12:03.
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Old 9th Oct 2013, 15:37
  #1186 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 942
Stucano - you have to be on a permanent contract and have the minimum hours to apply for the command process. You do not have to hold a particular rank, although in practice you are more likely to be an SFO, but that is not a stated requirement. There are then a significant number of hoops to jump through before you become a Captain. None of them are based on who your mates are, your colour, race, beliefs, nationality or anything else. You need to be very competent and a credible future Captain - nothing more and nothing less. It is not therefore automatic, but we have we have more promotions per year than any other airline in the world that I know of. Every last one of them go on to the standard Captain's deal, despite the constant warnings from the likes of Narrow Runway. The only variation to that is those guys that take up the Lisbon deal, which is not very good but offers the advantage of getting a command sooner than might otherwise have been the case - horses for courses etc.

For practical purposes we run a seniority system for command, although the word 'seniority' is banned from our vocabulary! The seniority system comes into play when you register your name for pre-command and get the appropriate interview. At that point you are frozen on a list and the date your name was placed on that list determines the order in which you will be offered a command course subsequently, subject to successful completion of the assessment process. It is about as fair as you could hope for and the vast majority of people are successful. The downside is that you have to go where the command vacancies are - that is more often than not Gatwick. If you have a wife and kids in Milan or wherever, that can be a problem. If you are waiting to get back to a popular base, you may wait a long time as vacancies only rarely occur. To change base you just put your name on the Transfer List, and when your name comes up you can accept or decline the offer. As you might expect, tensions can arise and there are not always easy answers. For example, when the Madrid base closed the guys there got put ahead of all the transfer listed people to move to bases of their choice - a great deal if you are in Madrid, but pretty grim if you were Number 1 on the list and found 10 guys now in front of you taking up the only free slots that had appeared for years! This is a vast subject that is largely outside the scope of this thread, but I hope that helps. No system is perfect but it is very transparent, and no more can you ask for.
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Old 9th Oct 2013, 22:47
  #1187 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 55
For the record, short of paying for my CPL and MIFR, which everyone but a very select few military types in Canada will do, I have never EVER dropped another dime on training nor signed a bond of any sort. I now hold 5 different type ratings and have flown over 20 different types. Call it delusional, call it whatever you want, but you are only fooling yourself and it will be too late before you will ever realise it.
You remind me of my gran. "1.39 for a coffee?! You could buy a bicycle for that in my day!"

Times have changed. It's great that you never paid extra for a type rating but the unfortunate truth is that nowadays airlines don't offer what they used to. I honestly don't know what they offer in Canada, but right now, in the UK, it is all but impossible for someone without a type rating to get a job. Nobody is fooling themselves.

Last edited by Blantoon; 9th Oct 2013 at 22:49.
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Old 9th Oct 2013, 23:21
  #1188 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 55
So is exaggeration, and the prisoner's dilemma. Neither of which you seem to have grasped.
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Old 10th Oct 2013, 02:10
  #1189 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 55
Haha you've given me a good giggle, thanks. The "prisoners dilemma" is just an example in game theory applied to group decisions like refusing to pay for type ratings. The circumstances are interchangeable, it's not actually about going to prison! And you say I'm dumb?

Prisoner's dilemma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It very obviously applies to this situation and explains how individuals rationally make decisions in their own best interest (not necessarily selfishly) by following a logic path, that cause detriment to the group as a whole. Ie, if everyone refused to pay for type ratings yes things would improve. But you can't guarantee everyone does it, so the best decision for any one individual is to pay for type rating.

But sure, you keep swearing and insulting swathes of pilots with each post you make

Last edited by Blantoon; 10th Oct 2013 at 02:35.
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Old 10th Oct 2013, 03:22
  #1190 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 55
It's a tough situation over here though. UK doesn't have the GA route to the airlines that N America has (which is a huge shame). Going to Africa won't get UK pilots into a jet job. You'll get some valuable experience building your skills for sure, but generally airlines require jet time on type or contribution to type rating, so once you get back you're in the same position you left with.
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Old 10th Oct 2013, 08:56
  #1191 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Grrrr
Age: 13
Posts: 646
AirFrance is a major. So following the gigolo's logic, the passenger would be safer on the 49 flight than the 250 one.

36 years old and 20 different types. Stable career
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Old 10th Oct 2013, 09:50
  #1192 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 942
justagiglio77 - At the risk of seeming rude, may I politely suggest you are over-contributing to this thread. From what I can see, you are a 36 year-old Canadian gift to aviation, with a stroke of genius, who has blessed numerous airlines with your presence and gained countless type ratings in the process. Awestruck as we all are, this thread is for people who want to know about joining a humble little outfit called easyJet and who want to discuss terms and conditions with informed people - of whom you are not one. I am not a genius, and nor am I a gift to aviation. I do, however, have one critical asset that you do not - I know all about easyJet as I have worked there many years. Perhaps you may grace us all with your 'insights' on another occasion, and allow others with a more realistic likelihood of working here to have their say.

Last edited by Alexander de Meerkat; 10th Oct 2013 at 21:47. Reason: Typo
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Old 10th Oct 2013, 17:35
  #1193 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 55
What a horrid, cliche spouting sort you are. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
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Old 10th Oct 2013, 22:00
  #1194 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: The IMF.
Posts: 537

Just a small point, you say that the UK doesn't have the GA route to airlines.

Well, it did until really quite recently. Then the whole thing changed in the blink of an eye.

What started as a trickle, soon became a stream, then a river, then an out of control torrent of individuals willing to accept the "easy" route (no pun intended) to the RHS of a Boeing/Airbus etc etc.

Just an observation, but GA was a way into the regionals until recently and from those regionals, those pilots could move up into the more mainstream, even occasionally, major airlines.

Not any more. That valid career path is dead. Forever.

And that is a shame.
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Old 11th Oct 2013, 23:07
  #1195 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 55
Couldn't agree more.
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Old 12th Oct 2013, 00:37
  #1196 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: On a Flight Level
Posts: 149
justagigolo77 I don't think I would fly or let my family on a Canadian airline, I mean at least with easyjet cadets (and British Airways/Monarch since its the same training school) they go through a tough selection and are trained by ex long haul skippers, mil fast jet guys and the occasional Red arrows mavericks in easyjet, so their getting the best training and are switched on people, in Canada you get trained by some ppl civilian cowboy out of a back garden shed in the middle of nowhere and fly around like cowboys with high accident rates due lack a SA and ability which is fine in your propeller driven aircraft with few SOB but its bad news when you need to fly something big and fast carrying many people when you need to be ahead of the aircraft and understand many systems.........................now how much of moron do I sound?????
And btw I fly for easyjet and haven't paid for a type rating as I'm sure about 70% of pilots at ezy haven't.

And for the record would you let your family fly BA/KLM/Lufthansa? Knowing that the skipper prob flew 100hrs 15years ago in a light a/c and pushed buttons in a jet ever since, sitting next to a 200hr cadet...and guess where the vast majority of experienced f/o's came from in BA's last 2 intakes

Last edited by Captain Spam Can; 12th Oct 2013 at 00:46.
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Old 12th Oct 2013, 07:01
  #1197 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: another place
Posts: 732
Oh how employers must laugh when they see pilots on forums like this!

This whole situation is borne out minimum cost to the company and all the time they can get away with charging people for training they will.

For me, the main question is, are they employing the best available talent for their flight operation? And the answer has to be no. Because they have been excluding experienced guys in previous recruitment.

And now experienced guys are getting interviews, they are turning it down as the offer is derisory.
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Old 12th Oct 2013, 11:03
  #1198 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Landing Gear Bay
Posts: 949
The point of this thread isn't to make employers happy, it's to give information to those who are thinking about a career in easyJet.
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Old 12th Oct 2013, 16:41
  #1199 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 942
Absolutely - well said Epsilon Vaz. Deep and fast - Firstly, absolutely anyone of experience could apply, and many have done. Secondly, many experienced pilots are accepting easyJet's offer. And yes, we are getting some great people. And yes, like every employer who wants to stay in business, it is a judgement - they pay the least they can to get the right people. You may not like it, but that is the way the world is. And finally, it is a great place to work - there will be very few disappointed people who come here. Those that are will find they are much sought after by other top airlines who know exactly the product they are getting from an easyJet pilot. No easyJet pilot has any difficulty getting another job if he wants to leave - it seems win-win to me.
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Old 12th Oct 2013, 17:34
  #1200 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Somewhere between Avant and Vaton.....usually
Posts: 338
Many are accepting perhaps. Unfortunately I won't be. I have had a better offer, simple as that.

No malice towards Easy, on the contrary I think it will fit in with some people very nicely indeed. For me I had another offer which fits in with my personal aspirations and circumstances better.

But that's life and it's good to see EZY taking guys. There is a few amongst my ranks who are very much looking forward to changing from blue and yellow to orange.

I think Alexander has been a very helpful insight into EZY on this thread and it's unfortunate that he/she seems to be getting a fair amount of flak for doing so.

Last edited by go around flaps15; 12th Oct 2013 at 17:34.
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