Norwegian B737 Pilot selection (Updated)

[SpannerInTheWerks]

So initially (if I'm reading this right?):

6 month contract;

Self-funded type rating;

Equals P2F by any other name?

Because:

After 6 months T&Cs may change and base may not be acceptable to pilot/ contractor;

Great for NAS!

Maybe not so great for pilot/contractor?

[teobull]

I wonder why they didn' t state such conditions on the job page....

[stn]

Originally Posted by teobull

http://norwegian.easycruit.com/vacancy/1239767/12113?iso=gb

Please, correct me if I am wrong: I applyed for the non rated FO position, but I cannot find anywhere stated in the job description that it will be a contract position.

Well I see text "contract" right in the first line on the right on that job description in that link you gave. Maybe there's something I'm missing here. "Job type: contract". Try ctrl+f contract on that page?

[niss]

also added in contract:


has the responsibility to deduct income taxes for the imployee

[FlyingOfficerKite]

Yes I can see what you mean.

Normally if taken on full-time permanent employment you would be bonded for say 3 years and pay back the bond equally over the 3 years.

If a contract that would normally be for current type-rated pilots who would need minimal refresher training in the sim for the LPC/OPC, SEPs, line training and the like. Maybe short-term, 6 month, contract (for the summer for example).

To offer an (initial) short-term contract to non-type rated pilots is a bit different and puts the cost and the risk on the contractor with minimal outlay for the employer.

Perhaps that's why there's another Thread in the Wannabees section - maybe Norwegian see this as an attractive prospect for 'cadet/wannabee' pilots, but expect that no self-respecting experienced non-type rated pilot would be serious in their application for such a short-term contract with risk at the end of the initial 6 months with respect to continued employment and base?

Not sure I've seen this before?!

[FlyingOfficerKite]

If you compare the two different first officer advertisements - type rated and non-type rated this seems to be the case.

The type rated first officer terms are, generally, what you'd expect whereas the non-type rated contract states 'self-sponsored/sponsored via agency'.

Also no mention of 'Command upgrade within the group of contract pilots possible after 12 months hiring' in the non-type rated adverisement which suggests low hours and/or non-jet experienced pilots might be considered (including 'cadets'?).

It will be interesting to hear the subsequent feedback from those who care to Post here on PPRuNe in respect of experience and contract terms offered and accepted.

[LNIDA]

Kite

There are number of question you have to ask yourself before applying for any job, but the first should be 'is there a sustainable need for your services' there are a good number of people coming up to the end of their first 2 year contract with Norwegian (Confair/ARPI/PARC) the Confair agency crews have been offered a 3 month extension until Jan 2015 but this appears to be more to do with whether Confair will continue to be an agency provider going forward because they pay their contractors as self employed, something that Norwegian have banned, meanwhile ARPI are happy to extend contracts by a further two years.

A non type rated pilot would not amass the required experience for command within a year, most F/O's who joined 2 years ago and meet the command requirement and passed the assessment were upgraded with 12-15 months of starting

[babisiliop]

I did the online assessments almost a month ago for DEC.
No word yet

Cheers

[FlyingOfficerKite]

A non type rated pilot would not amass the required experience for command within a year, most F/O's who joined 2 years ago and meet the command requirement and passed the assessment were upgraded with 12-15 months of starting

Absolutely.

So in order to achieve that number of hours the pilot/contractor would have to be willing to accept the T&Cs imposed by the airline, which might involve a change of base, as suggested by CaptPlayStation (and possibly a reduction in pay depending if and when the rumoured EURO 800/month drop in pay is imposed).

Great flexibility and low risk for the employer, but high risk and possible lack of flexibility for the pilot/contractor.

What other industry in the World would expect you to fork out EURO 10,000+ and guarantee only 6 months work, with a possibility of more work if you're willing to possibly up sticks and move elsewhere?

For the record I've been permanently employed and bonded and also worked on contract as a type rated pilot on a short-term contract.

Never paid for a type rating and never heard of paying for a type rating for a short-term contract, especially on such vague T&Cs - unless you enter the world of the P2F.

This trend (if I've interpreted the job correctly) tends to make easyJet and Ryanair employers of choice in comparison!

No mention in the NAS advert of who pays for uniform, security pass, car parking and other direct costs in connection with your employment?

CaptPlayStation???

[TypeIV]

How many hours do you guys fly annually? Thinking about 737fo on "contract-land" (lgw,alc,hel etc)

[captplaystation]

From what I have heard from colleagues, Contractors 750hr/year, core nearer 900.

FO Kite, for the moment NAS are still paying all that stuff, or was your ??? another question.

[FlyingOfficerKite]

... no that was the question - and just a general opinion as to whether my comments are fair and reasonable generally?

The comments are based on information gleaned from the website and this Thread, together with my own previous experience of the industry.

I certainly wouldn't want to project an unfair viewpoint, nor a favourable one if there are issues with the recruitment process?

[LNIDA]

F/o Kite

I can't help with info on the contract length, but as the Capt says all the uniforms (lots of it including flight cases and overnight cases) are all FOC hotels are paid for if your outside of home bases, ditto all positioning costs, crew meals, medicals and staff car parking & so on.

Basing is a bidding system and other than temp circumstances during training or first year as outlined by Capt you won't get a K base, so your choice is LGW/HEL/BCN/ALC/MAD/AGP/TFS/LPA

The overall deal is probably not as good as Easyjet, but way way better than Ryanair and i ain't talking about the money

[FlyingOfficerKite]

Thanks for your comments.

If I were to apply, and if I was successful, I fall between the two camps.

I have approximately 1,500 hours on the B737 300-900, but my rating has expired by some eight years.

So technically I am not currently type-rated, however if I took it upon myself to renew my type rating (at my own expense) then I would be a type-rated pilot able to apply under the different process.

Interesting to learn your views regarding the comparison between easyJet and Ryanair - which is what I imagined the case would be.

[ProFly]

@FlyingOfficerKite - anything after 3 years expired on a type is a brand new course, so you wouldn't be able to 'renew'.

Expired 0 -3 months = LPC
3 months < 1 year = 2 recurrent training sim sessions + LPC
1 year > 3 years = 3 recurrent training sim sessions + LPC

[FlyingOfficerKite]

Thanks.

I've had this discussion recently on another Thread - which is similar to your comments regarding the requirements to 'renew'?

bose-x:

Its training as defined by the Head of Training up to full re training. Basically what happens is we give you an assessment and decide what is needed to renew the rating. I have no idea on the 737 as our type ratings are all turboprop but if it was one of ours for an 8 year expired rating you would be looking at doing most of it again unless you are current on something similar.

and

mad_jock:

you won't have to do your bumps again though.

And it depends who you know.

I wouldn't be surprised if you can swing with some greek or eastern European ATO for not a lot.

[crossbones]

Pm me if you want...I was expired by 4 1/2 years on 737 and just had to do an assessment 3 hours and a checkride...did it in Gatwick. ATO decides how much training you need.

[lear999wa]

All previous ntr pilots hired by Norwegian in the past had their rating paid for by Norwegian. They did need to sign a bond and had the cost of the rating deducted from their salary over a period of a year. More or less.

[8ah]

wrong... but paid In full when the contract changed for some reason me think it was...

[vrb03kt]

had the cost of the rating deducted from their salary over a period of a year

Norwegian didn't really pay for it then did they?