El Al Pilot Refuses to Operate with Colleague in Coach
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Joined: Jun 2001
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From: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
El Al Pilot Refuses to Operate with Colleague in Coach
Crew deadheads can be a touchy issue at some airlines...
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El Al pilot refuses to fly without 1st class seat for colleague
Dror Marom
09.04.2002 16:20
Sources inform ''Globes'' that an El Al pilot left the cockpit just before takeoff to New York yesterday, after a first class seat could not be found for another pilot, who was travelling coach. The name of the captain was withheld.
The captain was scheduled to fly a Boeing 747-200 on flight 007 to New York. Take-off was scheduled for 10:00 am. The ground crew had completed the passenger manifest and seated them in readiness for take-off for the 11-hour flight.
At this point, the pilot discovered there was no first class seat for another pilot travelling coach en route to the US in an official capacity to fly another plane.
The crew at first informed the passengers that there would be “a slight delay”. The travelling pilot did not protest that there was no first class seat for him, but the captain insisted on an upgrade for his friend. After an hour, the passengers were informed, “One of the crew was taken ill.” They deplaned and were returned to the terminal.
At this point, the captain declared himself sick, so there was no alternative but to declare him unfit and release him from the flight. He then left the plane and went home. El Al’s operations center was forced to find another captain on call.
The plane took off after a three-hour delay. Passengers scheduled for follow-on flights throughout North America, missed them.
El Al describes the incident as serious. The incident has been sent to El Al’s legal department and disciplinary committee. The captain is a member of El Al’s pilot’s committee.
Published by Israel's Business Arena on 9 April 2002
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El Al suspends captain who quit plane
Dror Marom
10.04.2002 17:02
El Al has suspended until further notice the pilot who abandoned the flight he was scheduled to take to New York after a first class seat was refused to another pilot travelling coach.
El Al executive VP and acting president Itzchak Amitay suspended the captain. El Al announced, "Following an investigation and until a legal hearing is held on the matter, the pilot will not work for the airline."
The captain is a member of El Al pilots committee. He told ''Globes'' in response yesterday, "I do not want to tell my version to the press."
Published by Israel's Business Arena on 10 April 2002
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Pilot Refuses to Fly in Dispute Over Pal's Seating
Wed Apr 10,11:05 AM ET
JERUSALEM (Reuters) - An El Al pilot abandoned his planeload of New York-bound passengers Monday, refusing to fly because his pilot friend could not be found a first-class seat, an Israeli newspaper reported.
State-run El Al Israel Airlines apologized to passengers and said it would investigate, but declined to give details.
"We view this mishap with severity," it said in a statement.
Globes newspaper said on its Web site Tuesday that the pilot stormed out of the cockpit moments before he was due to fly the Boeing 747 from Tel Aviv, after he found his pilot friend, on his way to pick up a plane in New York, was having to sit in economy.
The flight left three hours late with a replacement pilot. Globes said El Al initially explained the delay by telling passengers a crew member was sick.
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El Al pilot refuses to fly without 1st class seat for colleague
Dror Marom
09.04.2002 16:20
Sources inform ''Globes'' that an El Al pilot left the cockpit just before takeoff to New York yesterday, after a first class seat could not be found for another pilot, who was travelling coach. The name of the captain was withheld.
The captain was scheduled to fly a Boeing 747-200 on flight 007 to New York. Take-off was scheduled for 10:00 am. The ground crew had completed the passenger manifest and seated them in readiness for take-off for the 11-hour flight.
At this point, the pilot discovered there was no first class seat for another pilot travelling coach en route to the US in an official capacity to fly another plane.
The crew at first informed the passengers that there would be “a slight delay”. The travelling pilot did not protest that there was no first class seat for him, but the captain insisted on an upgrade for his friend. After an hour, the passengers were informed, “One of the crew was taken ill.” They deplaned and were returned to the terminal.
At this point, the captain declared himself sick, so there was no alternative but to declare him unfit and release him from the flight. He then left the plane and went home. El Al’s operations center was forced to find another captain on call.
The plane took off after a three-hour delay. Passengers scheduled for follow-on flights throughout North America, missed them.
El Al describes the incident as serious. The incident has been sent to El Al’s legal department and disciplinary committee. The captain is a member of El Al’s pilot’s committee.
Published by Israel's Business Arena on 9 April 2002
__________________________________________________
El Al suspends captain who quit plane
Dror Marom
10.04.2002 17:02
El Al has suspended until further notice the pilot who abandoned the flight he was scheduled to take to New York after a first class seat was refused to another pilot travelling coach.
El Al executive VP and acting president Itzchak Amitay suspended the captain. El Al announced, "Following an investigation and until a legal hearing is held on the matter, the pilot will not work for the airline."
The captain is a member of El Al pilots committee. He told ''Globes'' in response yesterday, "I do not want to tell my version to the press."
Published by Israel's Business Arena on 10 April 2002
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Pilot Refuses to Fly in Dispute Over Pal's Seating
Wed Apr 10,11:05 AM ET
JERUSALEM (Reuters) - An El Al pilot abandoned his planeload of New York-bound passengers Monday, refusing to fly because his pilot friend could not be found a first-class seat, an Israeli newspaper reported.
State-run El Al Israel Airlines apologized to passengers and said it would investigate, but declined to give details.
"We view this mishap with severity," it said in a statement.
Globes newspaper said on its Web site Tuesday that the pilot stormed out of the cockpit moments before he was due to fly the Boeing 747 from Tel Aviv, after he found his pilot friend, on his way to pick up a plane in New York, was having to sit in economy.
The flight left three hours late with a replacement pilot. Globes said El Al initially explained the delay by telling passengers a crew member was sick.
The Reverend
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 2,020
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From: Sydney,NSW,Australia
411A, a serious question. Are you Jewish? How come you stand up for the El Al captain and condemn El Al managment but you keep heaping sh!t on Cathay pilots and praise Cathay managment. Very consistent in your convictions, NOT!
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 8,571
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From: Arizona USA
No HotDog, certainly not Jewish, otherwise I could not have stayed in SV for a long time.
Managements must realise that deadheading crew require at least business class because these guys are responsible in many respects for the bottom line the beancounters are so fond of....but on the other hand, the guys at CX have had it so good for so long, in their nice clubby atmosphere....and yet want more and more. There comes a time when management must say..."hey,wait a minute, enough is enough..."...clearly the HKAOA is barking up the wrong tree....and it will do them no good because others see through their facade.
My opinion anyway...others may disagree of course...and probably will.
Managements must realise that deadheading crew require at least business class because these guys are responsible in many respects for the bottom line the beancounters are so fond of....but on the other hand, the guys at CX have had it so good for so long, in their nice clubby atmosphere....and yet want more and more. There comes a time when management must say..."hey,wait a minute, enough is enough..."...clearly the HKAOA is barking up the wrong tree....and it will do them no good because others see through their facade.
My opinion anyway...others may disagree of course...and probably will.
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 1,938
Likes: 1
From: Manchester, UK
One would think El Al had enough to worry about right now. Depending on what the El Al contract says, I am in the unusual position of agreeing with 411...although his line seems completely at odds with just about every other post he's ever made. Perhaps he just writes whatever he feels will cause most controversy.
Joined: Oct 1998
Posts: 159
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From: Holland
If the story is really as posted (read the "if" !!) then I think it is stupid to act this childish as the guy in the back seemed to be content with it. If it was a contract violation then they should have flown and complained afterwards as long as it was no safety issue.
:o
:o
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 783
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From: The Deep South (Sussex)
If the dead-head was entitled to first class, that is what should have happened. All too often formal agreements with the pilots are ignored because someone on the day couldn't be bothered to plan ahead.
Even in the charter market dead-heads can be guaranteed seats with leg room but on the day finish up on jump seats because someone didn't do their job.
Believe me, this never happens to the company suits who have their agreements to first class travel respected at all times.
Even in the charter market dead-heads can be guaranteed seats with leg room but on the day finish up on jump seats because someone didn't do their job.
Believe me, this never happens to the company suits who have their agreements to first class travel respected at all times.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 960
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From: Brisbane, Australia
Hi Lou Scannon,
I agree entirely with your point of view, sounds to me that you fly for Air Atlanta, where 'operations' staff find a seat(s) in the upper deck area, and the deadheading crew seem to end up in row 65!
Cheers
I agree entirely with your point of view, sounds to me that you fly for Air Atlanta, where 'operations' staff find a seat(s) in the upper deck area, and the deadheading crew seem to end up in row 65!
Cheers
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 135
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From: New York
Not enough facts.
At my old airline, we were entitled to first class if seats were available, guaranteed if duty travel. Well, due to the good buddy system, sometimes first class would be full due to upgrades by traffic or otherwise, thus no seat. We would get the push down. We were always being told first class was full, finding out latter that it wasn't, seats were being held for family or friends of someone with "wasta"Is it possible that was the case here. Maybe somebody gave away his seat and should not have and the Capt said B.S.
I bet there is more to the story. I regardless of the story, applaud the Capt, if it was the DH crewmembers right to be there.
At my old airline, we were entitled to first class if seats were available, guaranteed if duty travel. Well, due to the good buddy system, sometimes first class would be full due to upgrades by traffic or otherwise, thus no seat. We would get the push down. We were always being told first class was full, finding out latter that it wasn't, seats were being held for family or friends of someone with "wasta"Is it possible that was the case here. Maybe somebody gave away his seat and should not have and the Capt said B.S.
I bet there is more to the story. I regardless of the story, applaud the Capt, if it was the DH crewmembers right to be there.
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 431
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From: by the river
Deadhead comfort - and what about safety ???
Fly 10 hours eco and then fly another leg from left front in a minimum layover (for El Al possibly the return of the same plane) - I applaud the guy even if I would have missed every connection in the world.
Get real a D/H get somebody somewhere because crew planning has a problem or the schedulers think that they are trying to save cash somewhere. All ways it affects the concentration on the following flights, whether its cabin or flight crews. How often do accidents have to happen for managements to start to understand !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Get real a D/H get somebody somewhere because crew planning has a problem or the schedulers think that they are trying to save cash somewhere. All ways it affects the concentration on the following flights, whether its cabin or flight crews. How often do accidents have to happen for managements to start to understand !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 105
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From: uk
Surely if it was a problem, the DH crew should have called in "sick" on arrival at the destination for their flight, and not the first captain, who's now delayed the flight 3 hours with all the associated complications.
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 510
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From: New York
Assuming this is a legitimate grievance, all too often the attitude of managements is "I don't care if it's not according to the contract, do it anyway." The grievance process is so skewed toward the company that it's very profitable to operate that way. You can have anything in your contract you want, but if there are no BIG, legally enforceable penelties for violations, it might as well not be there.
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 428
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From: South East UK
If El Al is obliged to arrange seating such that the d/h has a comfy seat, then it's the airline's fault for not planning ahead.
If not, is it possible first-class was full, every seat occupied by passengers paying first-class prices (airlines' bread & butter) just for the privilege of being delayed?
Given El Al's load factors at the moment, I doubt it. But just a thought
If not, is it possible first-class was full, every seat occupied by passengers paying first-class prices (airlines' bread & butter) just for the privilege of being delayed?
Given El Al's load factors at the moment, I doubt it. But just a thought
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 286
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From: USA
I think the Captain should be excused, and it should stick. Not with standing what El Al’s contractual agreements are, the shoving match was not with the operating crew, but the DH
Captain. We were always provided FR CL Pos when DH for crew positioning purposes. Flt Svc would be seated in FR CL SA, but were Pos in the back. I agree that crew should be afforded the
same treatment as management when trvlg on biz. But, I certainly disagree with delaying a flight over non rev issues, irrespective of the reasons. Dispatch the airplane and grieve the problem later. Meantime, let him sit on the ground.
Retirement is great!!
Captain. We were always provided FR CL Pos when DH for crew positioning purposes. Flt Svc would be seated in FR CL SA, but were Pos in the back. I agree that crew should be afforded the
same treatment as management when trvlg on biz. But, I certainly disagree with delaying a flight over non rev issues, irrespective of the reasons. Dispatch the airplane and grieve the problem later. Meantime, let him sit on the ground.
Retirement is great!!
