Staff Travel for bmi retirees
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"Got it in one. DLH is German. The Pension Regulator is British. The latter has no legal powers over the former."
... and all hale the Glorious EU!!! (Does anyone know what they are really there for?)
... and all hale the Glorious EU!!! (Does anyone know what they are really there for?)
Uncle Pete
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It was all done under British law, perfectly legally!!
Unfortunately, the way British Midland Holdings PLC was structured enable DLH to separate the Pension Scheme from bmi and.....
Unfortunately, the way British Midland Holdings PLC was structured enable DLH to separate the Pension Scheme from bmi and.....
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I have a mate who's a businessman specialising in mergers and acquisitions. He tells me his biggest 'obstacle' in any takeover is usually the Transfer of Undertakings laws. But he's not UK based.
Maybe it's just a UK thing? Another of Gordon Browns legacies?
Maybe it's just a UK thing? Another of Gordon Browns legacies?
Last edited by Algol; 17th Jul 2012 at 08:45.
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It is interesting that some airlines offer retirement travel benefits to retirees of defunct airlines such as Eastern , TWA, Braniff, etc.
Look up Eastern Airlines Retirees Assoc
Similarly, check the participants in ARPB
Lets face it, the cost of rebated travel is microscopic (extra fuel burn and extra paperwork; plus, some soft drinks?, an airline meal? )- service charges usually more than cover this.
It is not as though they were failed executives taking multi-million dollar golden handshakes.
Look up Eastern Airlines Retirees Assoc
Similarly, check the participants in ARPB
Lets face it, the cost of rebated travel is microscopic (extra fuel burn and extra paperwork; plus, some soft drinks?, an airline meal? )- service charges usually more than cover this.
It is not as though they were failed executives taking multi-million dollar golden handshakes.
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You know, it really does beggar belief that, at a time when some bmi pension scheme members will be subjected to almost 50% cuts in their pensions and bmi baby employees face what tragically looks to be certain redundancy, we have an individual who regards unearned perks as a topic for argument. The frequent thread drift proves otherwise. Any doubt as to the unbelievable ‘I’m all right, Jack’ attitude is dispelled by his post declaring that ‘Sh*t happens’.
Perhaps a username modification is in order. Two letters will do it.
Perhaps a username modification is in order. Two letters will do it.
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Acbus1
I don't think that MP or indead anyone else has expressed anything other than sympathy for those facing pension cuts and or redudancy. There are however seperate threads running which deal with these particular circumstances.
As I stated earlier just because a greater 'crime' (Pensions Redundancies) has been commited does not mean that a lessor errosion of existing terms and conditions is not worthy of discussion.
In an ideal world all of these would be resolved by the relevent companies behaving honourably.
This isn't an ideal world so the chances of anything being achieved is minimal. The only outlet I suspect for the OP is here.
Should we have sympathy - thats up to you. but if you don't like it ignore it and read the other threads.
I don't think that MP or indead anyone else has expressed anything other than sympathy for those facing pension cuts and or redudancy. There are however seperate threads running which deal with these particular circumstances.
As I stated earlier just because a greater 'crime' (Pensions Redundancies) has been commited does not mean that a lessor errosion of existing terms and conditions is not worthy of discussion.
In an ideal world all of these would be resolved by the relevent companies behaving honourably.
This isn't an ideal world so the chances of anything being achieved is minimal. The only outlet I suspect for the OP is here.
Should we have sympathy - thats up to you. but if you don't like it ignore it and read the other threads.
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Come on guys,
regardless of what's happening to current staff in various bits of the old bmi/BMA/BM empire, Pete has raised a valid point. Along with lots of other employees he was loyal to one employer over a long period of time. Part of the reward was a defined benefit pension and certain perks in retirement. Pete and others kept their side of the bargain, but have seen others water down their obligations. Existing staff are seeing pension benefits evaporate like a mirage before their (our) very eyes.
If people like Pete don't draw attention to injustices at all levels, then the modern day Robber Barons are likely to get away with more, not less.
Just my own thoughts.
regardless of what's happening to current staff in various bits of the old bmi/BMA/BM empire, Pete has raised a valid point. Along with lots of other employees he was loyal to one employer over a long period of time. Part of the reward was a defined benefit pension and certain perks in retirement. Pete and others kept their side of the bargain, but have seen others water down their obligations. Existing staff are seeing pension benefits evaporate like a mirage before their (our) very eyes.
If people like Pete don't draw attention to injustices at all levels, then the modern day Robber Barons are likely to get away with more, not less.
Just my own thoughts.
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The bmi pension debacle should worry everyone with a pension in the UK, not just those at bmi. If a solvent company can walk away from it's responsibilities as easily as DLH have done, then no-one's pension is safe.
Anyone with a final salary pension who isn't very worried about this, doesnt understand the implications of what lufty did to the BMI pension fund.
Uncle Pete
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757_Driver,
We haven't given up and it may be too late for us but there are many very vulnerable people out there, both in and outside the aviation world, who could find themselves in this extremely unenviable position.
We haven't given up and it may be too late for us but there are many very vulnerable people out there, both in and outside the aviation world, who could find themselves in this extremely unenviable position.
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It would be a tragedy and also set a dangerous precedent should Lufty be allowed to get away with this pension scam. I hope that you and your colleagues get some satisfaction from your campaign to get some justice for your pensions. All the best
Last edited by Juan Tugoh; 20th Jul 2012 at 10:54.
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Staff Travel for bmi retirees
I was under the impression that staff travel was an industry perk, after completing a number of years service with an airline, this perk became available and continued into ones pension. What would it cost IAG? A couple of e-mails perhaps as one still has to pay for the tickets. Reading a few previous blogs, it appears that there are guys in BA out there with there head in the clouds. The number of times they have relied on BMI concessions in order to position for work. Also I have seen BA staff using other airlines for their pleasure. Have they forgotten history that BA was in dept. to the tune of £100M and the government wrote it off !! What a gift with all those assets to start the business afresh!
As IAG has bought BMI as a going concern, would it not be a conscious good will business decision and gesture, to allow the retirees to continue with this industry perk?
As IAG has bought BMI as a going concern, would it not be a conscious good will business decision and gesture, to allow the retirees to continue with this industry perk?
As IAG has bought BMI as a going concern
Uncle Pete
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HP
When bmi was sold to IAG it was:-
1. Operating a full program normally.
2. Paying all the wages
3. Paying all it's creditors
4. Was not in Adminstration
5. Allowing staff travel to BA and other airlines' employees
So... in law it was a going concern with depts, bit like BA and the £100 million.
MP
MP
When bmi was sold to IAG it was:-
1. Operating a full program normally.
2. Paying all the wages
3. Paying all it's creditors
4. Was not in Adminstration
5. Allowing staff travel to BA and other airlines' employees
So... in law it was a going concern with depts, bit like BA and the £100 million.
MP
MP
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A pilot that I spoke to recently said that everything that BA touches turns to rat sh1t. Seems to sum it all up quite well.
(And let's get away from this "It was IAG that bought BMI" rubbish. Iberian has not taken on anything from BMI. BA got it all. The IAG thing was just a 'legalese' smoke-screen for the reality: BA bought BMI!!!)
"Are you saying that if Virgin went belly up, IAG should offer their staff travel rights into retirement because BA staff occasionally used them for holidays?" -- If BA (IAG, if you want to hide behind that smoke-screen!) had bought them, then YES!
(And let's get away from this "It was IAG that bought BMI" rubbish. Iberian has not taken on anything from BMI. BA got it all. The IAG thing was just a 'legalese' smoke-screen for the reality: BA bought BMI!!!)
"Are you saying that if Virgin went belly up, IAG should offer their staff travel rights into retirement because BA staff occasionally used them for holidays?" -- If BA (IAG, if you want to hide behind that smoke-screen!) had bought them, then YES!
Last edited by Trossie; 25th Jul 2012 at 06:55. Reason: (Extra added)
You can huff and puff all you like but it won't change anything. BA didn't but BMI; IAG did. Believe what you like and I can't be bothered going over old ground but BMI wasn't far from becoming a separate OpCo within the IAG group and thus, in effect, a competitor to BA. It doesn't really matter what I or anyone else says because you're going to believe your version of the facts regardless of the reality of the situation.
Losing staff travel rights is unfortunate but the loss of pension benefits due to Lufthansa's duplicity and the loss of jobs within the BMI group are far more serious issues.
Losing staff travel rights is unfortunate but the loss of pension benefits due to Lufthansa's duplicity and the loss of jobs within the BMI group are far more serious issues.
Last edited by Megaton; 25th Jul 2012 at 07:17.