BA Pilots Lose Out on Commands

[Artie Fufkin]

Certainly the primary responsibility for the job losses at Baby lies with the BMI management.

But I fail to see why IAG should be seen in any better light than Lufthansa. Both are busniesses who found Baby on their books as a result of desiring BMI's Heathrow slots and both had an equal "couldn't care less" attitude towards the company.

All legal and, of course, "it's just business".

[Wirbelsturm]

Both are busniesses who found Baby on their books

Seems that Baby wasn't wanted by anyone. Perhaps the business model was so flawed that neither LH, IAG or any future purchaser was interested.

Seems like the management involved in running Baby have more to accept as far as blame goes then two companies who never even wanted it.

Sadly the employees are the ones who live with the consequences of poor management but that still doesn't mean that IAG have to employ the pilots.

[Artie Fufkin]

Sadly the employees are the ones who live with the consequences of poor management but that still doesn't mean that IAG have to employ the pilots.

Surely the crux of the issue. Clearly Baby has no future, but am I right in thinking that it's pilots are employees of IAG? I wander if this same "sh@t happens" attitude will recur if IAG were ever to make redundancies in other parts of its business?

[Wirbelsturm]

Artie,

I've been in this business for many, many years and have been at the receiving end of 'sh*t happpens' so, if 'sh*t happens' again I'll carry on as normal. Nobody 'owes' me a job, especially IAG, I just need to ensure I have one.

No Baby are not part of IAG as there is no IAG AOC for Baby, they are still operating under the original AOC AFAIK. Thus they are still employees of the Midland holding company.

[captjns]

Now to add insult to injury, BA has given 15 commands to BMI First Officers! This will delay promotion for BA's own F/O's.

Hey... maybe the BA future skippers can call a hunger strike like the chaps from Air India. It worked for them and maybe it can work for the lads at BA... just a thought.

[Artie Fufkin]

And there was me thinking IAG owned that Midland holding company.

[Wirbelsturm]

And there was me thinking IAG owned that Midland holding company.

Which doesn't make them employees of BA or Iberia.

[Artie Fufkin]

Correct.

But they are employees in the IAG group.

[Juan Tugoh]

Does that mean that Iberia should give them a job?

[Wirbelsturm]

Artie,

BMI Baby is only being held long enough to wind it up. If Iberia were to be wound up IAG wouldn't offer the pilots jobs with BA or vice versa. The entire staff at Baby will soon have no airline and therefore must accept redundancy. There is no space for them at either BA or Iberia, if the pilots wish to join then they must complete the standard DEP process like everyone else.

IAG had no intention of buying Baby except in the case they were forced to and it was always going to end in the same result.

That's the end of it.

[Artie Fufkin]

Crikey. There was a break in the first set of the tennis this afternoon, I picked up my trusty iPad and naively pointed out someone's incorrect statement that IAG only agreed to buy Mainline.

I now face a question of whether Baby pilots should be offerd jobs at Iberia! Clearly, I have entered the lions den, with feelings evidently running high at BA.

Genuine respect and best wishes to all. Elvis has left the building.

[Shell Management]

The reality of modern business seems to have evaded many airline pilots.

[pilotmike]

The reality of modern business seems to have evaded many airline pilots.

Evading what exactly? Your comment makes no sense whatsoever.

Possibly eluded was the word that eluded you, SM, rather than evaded? Was this what you were alluding to?

[brit bus driver]

Amongst all of this 'fairness' malarchy, where are the calls for Monarch to give the bmi baby pilots a job, without interview etc. They are the ones expanding into baby's territory; surely it is they, not BA/IAG/IB that 'owe' baby pilots a job?

[i_like_tea]

Er, what?

[brit bus driver]

2012 News - Flights - Monarch Airlines to expand operations across the Midlands

03 05 2012

- Airline to launch a new base at East Midlands Airport and expand services from Birmingham Airport -

Scheduled leisure airline Monarch has today announced a further expansion of its operations across the Midlands with the launch of a new base at East Midlands Airport, and also the growth of services from Birmingham Airport.

The airline, already a leading leisure carrier at Birmingham Airport, will introduce a new base at East Midlands Airport from late summer 2012 and launch new flights to key leisure destinations across the Mediterranean, including Malaga, Alicante, Palma (Majorca) and Faro (Portugal).

In addition, Monarch will be expanding its operations from Birmingham Airport through the introduction of additional frequencies on existing flights Rome to Malaga, Alicante, Faro and Palma, plus the addition of a new route to Barcelona. A UK base for Monarch since 2005, the airline is already one of Birmingham’s leading scheduled airline, flying over 875,000 passengers every year to over twenty destinations across Europe.

Commenting on the launch of a new base at East Midlands Airport and the expansion of services from Birmingham Airport, Managing Director of Monarch Airlines, Kevin George said, “In light of recent industry changes, opportunities have opened up in the market. Iit has become clear that the Midlands will be underserved as a region in the future, and that there is a lack of quality carriers to serve customers travelling from the area.”

“As an airline with over 40 years heritage and a stronghold in the Midlands already, the expansion of our existing services from Birmingham and the launch of operations from East Midlands makes perfect sense for Monarch, and accelerates the strategy we announced last year to focus on the development of our scheduled operations into key leisure destinations across the Mediterranean, the Canaries and North Africa.”

George continues. “The further expansion of our services from the Midlands will provide even more customers in the Midlands with choice and flexibility and protects jobs at East Midlands Airport in the future”.

Coincidence, or a sudden gap in the market? Why should BA have to give the baby pilots a job when there are more obvious positions becoming available?

[Looker]

As one of the Baby pilots facing redundancy in 8 weeks time - perhaps I might be permitted to share some thoughts.

The Baby business model wasn't flawed per se, it was just starved of investment. Firstly from SMB, and then from DLH who kept throwing money at the LHR operation. Had Baby received the investment and growth it deserved perhaps we would be where JET2 are now.

Secondly, I have a huge amount of respect for my immediate superiors at Baby. They have kept Baby going despite being hamstrung by the board. The people who rubbish the Baby management are extremely wide of the mark.

Thirdly, Baby produced a product that was received very well by the public and we developed a large amount of repeat business from people who didnt relish flying with some of our competitors. Our on time performance and customer satisfaction levels were very good compared to most other LCCs.

I think BA are possibly being short sighted with regards to both Baby pilots and cabin crew. If future pilot requirements at BA are as rumoured and recruitment will recommence in Jan then why overlook an obvious source of talent to which they have unrivalled access? From a purely financial aspect minimising redundancy costs should be a priority - even if pilots have to go on gardening leave until sim slots are available. From a media point of view why risk being painted as the 'bad guy'? Whilst business may be business I think BA have received such a large discount from DLH they can afford to be a little less hard nosed than they are currently. I understand the BALPA negotiations have hit a brick wall and BA are penny pinching to the extreme. Our holiday pay claim has been dismissed as being "too bl**dy expensive". Meanwhile BA are happy to pocket revenues from our peak season for which they had zero input.

Whilst I'm sure there are some at BA who will disagree with my sentiments I'm happy to agree to disagree. I have friends at BA who are rather bemused by the treatment Baby pilots and cabin crew are receiving.

[Wirbelsturm]

Looker,

Whilst I agree with your sentiments (my comment on management was at a senior level who dictated policy for the entire group) I find it interesting that many on this board for pilots seem to think that BA Pilots have the power within IAG to influence Board level decisions.

Let's make no mistake here, employees such as the pilot body had and will have no influence on the purchase of BMI, the use of BMI subsiduarys and the employment of BMI employees. Once the board level decisions have been made we might fool ourselves into thinking that we have influence over the integration but, to be honest, IAG will just do what they want to achieve their aims with the least resistance. If that aim ties in with the pilot community then all the better.

I feel really sorry for the guys and girls at Baby, as I've said before a friend of mine is loosing his job as well. The sad fact of life is that these decisions will never be influenced by Pilots or BALPA. I agree that a pool of talent is being wasted but that doesn't bother the Board as they are also refusing to extend the 18 months swimming limit for DEP's in the hold pool. Sometimes the arrogance and sheer offhandedness of some of the management is astounding!

Baby will have been cast off purely and simply for the fact that the routes don't fit into the London 'Hub' structure and the aircraft are, potentially, going to be a type BA no longer flies. Airbus=Shorthaul.

Good luck

[Count Niemantznarr]

Integrating BMI pilots was BALPA's throw of the dice to halt BA Express. The price paid has been very heavy for Mainline BA pilots, especially in future career progression.

Now with so many unemployed flight crew available, BA Express may yet become a reality? Will Willie do it?

[Juan Tugoh]

How strange to see the Count trolling on these forums - making wild and random claims about stuff that he does not really understand.