Monarch Anyone?
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,195
Likes: 61
From: Earth
Just for the record in terms of load factors. Load factors mean nothing if you do not know what the yield for each seat is. Monarch or EZY could be selling there seats for £10 each and if they did they would be loss making.
I do not know if Monarch are making a profit or not but to say they have 90% load factor means nothing if they are not making a profit on the seats sold. I could use one of Monarch A330 and fill every seat on it to Malaga and charge 10p per seat and say hey look guys I have 100% load factor but I would be out of business very quickly.
I wish Monarch well as they do offer a decent contract for the new guys. I'm sure they will be around for a few more years yet.
I do not know if Monarch are making a profit or not but to say they have 90% load factor means nothing if they are not making a profit on the seats sold. I could use one of Monarch A330 and fill every seat on it to Malaga and charge 10p per seat and say hey look guys I have 100% load factor but I would be out of business very quickly.
I wish Monarch well as they do offer a decent contract for the new guys. I'm sure they will be around for a few more years yet.
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 595
Likes: 0
From: Polymer Records
Buzz L, the "speculation" comes from the rumour that when the final tranch of the bailout was handed over, Monarch management were allegedly told to make this bailout work and not to expect any more.
And they have now implemented an aggressive expansion plan, that they have brought forward from the planned timing in a greedy attempt to take Baby's capacity. Is this really ideal economic conditions for large scale expansion of an airline? And drachma-geddon is still yet to rip the Mediterranean economy apart.
Their main competitors all have significantly lower costs and much higher brand recognition. The trend is towards consolidation and larger companies dominating.
Without doubt, the entire pilot community wants to see companies like Monarch prosper. It unfortunately doesn't take a huge stretch of the imagination to see another outcome.
And they have now implemented an aggressive expansion plan, that they have brought forward from the planned timing in a greedy attempt to take Baby's capacity. Is this really ideal economic conditions for large scale expansion of an airline? And drachma-geddon is still yet to rip the Mediterranean economy apart.
Their main competitors all have significantly lower costs and much higher brand recognition. The trend is towards consolidation and larger companies dominating.
Without doubt, the entire pilot community wants to see companies like Monarch prosper. It unfortunately doesn't take a huge stretch of the imagination to see another outcome.
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
From: uk
''the "speculation" comes from the rumour that''
and therin lies your problem...........rumour, speculation, etc, etc.............
However as that is the 3rd word of this websites title, I suppose it is appropriate really..........
My only advice is dont believe all the rumours you hear!
and therin lies your problem...........rumour, speculation, etc, etc.............
However as that is the 3rd word of this websites title, I suppose it is appropriate really..........
My only advice is dont believe all the rumours you hear!
Plumbum Pendular
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 1,117
Likes: 0
From: Avionics Bay
And they have now implemented an aggressive expansion plan, that they have brought forward from the planned timing in a greedy attempt to take Baby's capacity. Is this really ideal economic conditions for large scale expansion of an airline? And drachma-geddon is still yet to rip the Mediterranean economy apart.
If Greece and Spain (Monarch's main destinations) pull out of the Euro then they will immediately devalue their currency, making it very cheap for holidays, Monarch's market!!!
Ezy & FR I understand take more money in Euros than they do in Sterling and rely much more on pax originating in the Euro zone. So the break up of the Euro will effect them massively.
And they have now implemented an aggressive expansion plan, that they have brought forward from the planned timing in a greedy attempt to take Baby's capacity.
Load factors mean nothing if you do not know what the yield for each seat is.
Plus those load factors mentioned were for a period when ticket prices are almost at their highest (the shoulder months) so yields almost at their highest.
Monarch also do very well on inflight and ancillary sales that the competition doesn't enjoy nearly as much.
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 850
Likes: 175
From: hove
Buzz Lightyear
No family as business minded and as savvy as the Mantegazza family will continue to bailout loss making ventures.
We all know they're wealthy but they never got there by funding a load of 'Monarch' like businesses.
No family as business minded and as savvy as the Mantegazza family will continue to bailout loss making ventures.
We all know they're wealthy but they never got there by funding a load of 'Monarch' like businesses.
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 339
Likes: 1
From: Earth
Only when cadets categorically refuse to go into flexi-crew that the light at the end of the tunnel will appear.
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 595
Likes: 0
From: Polymer Records
They have now adopted a scheduled services from the UK to the Mediterranean model, setting themselves against Ryanair, Easy and Jet2. No more competing in the charter market that has seen them do so well over the years.
They can't charge any extra than competitors, but have significantly higher costs. In an industry with wafer thin margins, its never going to work. You can almost hear Alan Sugar sitting in a boardroom saying "basic business principles seem to have gone out the window".
As was said earlier in this thread it seems great being offered old school terms and conditions, but if your competing against O'Leary, they'll be for nothing when the competition has you for breakfast. Remember the first class passenger in Titanic refusing a life jacket, stating he was dressed in his finest and prepared to go down as a gentleman?
They can't charge any extra than competitors, but have significantly higher costs. In an industry with wafer thin margins, its never going to work. You can almost hear Alan Sugar sitting in a boardroom saying "basic business principles seem to have gone out the window".
As was said earlier in this thread it seems great being offered old school terms and conditions, but if your competing against O'Leary, they'll be for nothing when the competition has you for breakfast. Remember the first class passenger in Titanic refusing a life jacket, stating he was dressed in his finest and prepared to go down as a gentleman?
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
From: South East
Artie,
Your tone is all too familiar. You have to remember you're a pilot. You fly 737's. You're not a business man, not an economist, not an analyst, not an accountant, not an industry expert. You read the business pages of the newspapers. In fact you have not the foggiest idea as to the internal workings of Monarch Airlines. I've flown with people like you and I have learnt to nod along. You're a know it all and you appear to take pleasure in trying to scare monger people with your ill informed opinions. Why? What are you trying to achieve?
The fact of the matter is Monarch are offering c90 permanent, full time well paid jobs. Who else is offering that opportunity in the UK at the moment.
To all the know it alls like Artie, remember your place.
Your tone is all too familiar. You have to remember you're a pilot. You fly 737's. You're not a business man, not an economist, not an analyst, not an accountant, not an industry expert. You read the business pages of the newspapers. In fact you have not the foggiest idea as to the internal workings of Monarch Airlines. I've flown with people like you and I have learnt to nod along. You're a know it all and you appear to take pleasure in trying to scare monger people with your ill informed opinions. Why? What are you trying to achieve?
The fact of the matter is Monarch are offering c90 permanent, full time well paid jobs. Who else is offering that opportunity in the UK at the moment.
To all the know it alls like Artie, remember your place.
Last edited by tchaikovsky; 28th July 2012 at 00:11.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,234
Likes: 83
From: N/A
Lovely warm things like allocated seating, sweets, hot meals and bjs from the chief pilot aren't going to stop and airline going bust. I would hate to see them go, lots of friends work for them, but I really wouldn't jump from EZY to MON, even if you paid me.
Sit tight and bite the pillow for as long as you can.
Sit tight and bite the pillow for as long as you can.
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
From: uk
Has everyone forgotten the massive contracts that most permanent european easy first officers and captains are on? They are on some of the absolute best in the European industry. Same in Ryanair. What proportion of the workforce is made up of flexi? Any idea? Me either! Put my hat on a large proportion of the workforce are on euro contracts beating Ba and monarch terms and conditions hands down. I don't know the figures and nor do most so can we just stop this pointless chatter!!!
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,167
Likes: 0
From: Location: Location:
Had to use FR/BA/EZY/MON for positioning to and from an EU based aircraft.
MON invariably are more expensive but not by anywhere near as much as you'd think, it's also the case that later last minute bookings are much more affordable with MON than anybody else.
Never been on a MON flight which wasn't full.
Last minute positioning on FR for €300 into the EU just makes you feel robbed, Didn't end up going on any other website if MON was something near price wise.
Doesn't take much extra per seat to cover the additional costs with MON and I for one would happily pay it.
MON invariably are more expensive but not by anywhere near as much as you'd think, it's also the case that later last minute bookings are much more affordable with MON than anybody else.
Never been on a MON flight which wasn't full.
Last minute positioning on FR for €300 into the EU just makes you feel robbed, Didn't end up going on any other website if MON was something near price wise.
Doesn't take much extra per seat to cover the additional costs with MON and I for one would happily pay it.
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
From: uk
Tchaikovsky
Couldn't have put it any better myself.......you've summed up these 'virtual airline bosses' perfectly......its so frustrating wading through their worthless posts to find anything worth reading!!!!
Couldn't have put it any better myself.......you've summed up these 'virtual airline bosses' perfectly......its so frustrating wading through their worthless posts to find anything worth reading!!!!
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 938
Likes: 0
From: United Kingdom
There is no dispute that Monarch is a great company to work for, but that is not really the issue - long term viability (i.e. a full career for a young man in his mid-20s) is where my doubt lies. I think we all know it is impossible to predict the future in the airline world, and far wiser punters than me have got it seriously wrong. Nonetheless, my own belief is that they cannot compete directly with Ryanair or easyJet on their core routes, but we shall just have to see. I do, however, like the active efforts Monarch are making to expand, and it is good news for the whole industry - I genuinely wise them well.
Sprinkles - please excuse my harsh tone. My excuse is that I was writing at around 3.30am and was worn out! I fully understand why you have made the choice you have and hope it all works out well. I am very frustrated that our own management have created a situation that you felt you needed to leave - it is really inexcusable.
A key element of the discussions in the last few pages has been over the wisdom of easyJet cadets leaving to join Monarch. It has diverged into a discussion about who is doing well and who is not. I have heard the rumours but frankly do not know the whole truth about Monarch's current financial status. I do, however, know how easyJet is doing. For those interested in easyJet's current financial well-being, may I draw your attention to the following:
http://corporate.easyjet.com/~/media...ms-q3-2012.pdf
I would humbly suggest that any company coming up with these figures in the current economic environment is doing very well indeed. We all know these things can change very quickly, and no one is crowing about how great easyJet is. Nonetheless, to make the decision to leave a company producing these kind of figures without joining a national carrier is a gutsy move indeed, and not one I would hand-on-heart recommend.
Sprinkles - please excuse my harsh tone. My excuse is that I was writing at around 3.30am and was worn out! I fully understand why you have made the choice you have and hope it all works out well. I am very frustrated that our own management have created a situation that you felt you needed to leave - it is really inexcusable.
A key element of the discussions in the last few pages has been over the wisdom of easyJet cadets leaving to join Monarch. It has diverged into a discussion about who is doing well and who is not. I have heard the rumours but frankly do not know the whole truth about Monarch's current financial status. I do, however, know how easyJet is doing. For those interested in easyJet's current financial well-being, may I draw your attention to the following:
http://corporate.easyjet.com/~/media...ms-q3-2012.pdf
I would humbly suggest that any company coming up with these figures in the current economic environment is doing very well indeed. We all know these things can change very quickly, and no one is crowing about how great easyJet is. Nonetheless, to make the decision to leave a company producing these kind of figures without joining a national carrier is a gutsy move indeed, and not one I would hand-on-heart recommend.
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
From: UK
Nonetheless, to make the decision to leave a company producing these kind of figures without joining a national carrier is a gutsy move indeed, and not one I would hand-on-heart recommend.
Where to be? A company that still pays and looks after me, or the one which drops me as soon as I may not be needed/can be replaced by someone cheaper.
You say leaving a company producing these figures is a bad idea. Why? Especially when those figures are being produced by making the right hand seat a figure in the balance sheet, to be exploited for as much profit as possible, at the fiscal and emotional expense of said pilot.
It's not as though it's a real career airline anyway. Not with MAD closing, LIS opening etc. Anyone who thinks they can tough out the next few years for Nirvana at the end of the tunnel is deluded. The other good contracts will be next for the axe.
Anyone on an ezy rip off FO deal would be best served looking after no 1 in the short term. Ezy don't look long term so why should you. You owe it to yourself after all the pain to get where you are now to earn a decent living and be treated like a human being. I bet MON skippers look out for their colleagues and don't just turn a blind eye to any I humane treatment handed down to them. They seem like one of the few decent employers left in the uk.
I expect to now be shouted down saying I must be an ezy reject etc. in advance I'm not.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Sadly Noone has a crystal ball, but I would take issue that a ' young man in his 20s " would want to spend 40 years at ezy. I'm not sure the lifestyle is sustainable and I would think they would want to see some if the world before they retire.
There are very few "full career " airlines these days. I would think only BA would fit that bill.
There are very few "full career " airlines these days. I would think only BA would fit that bill.
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 224
Likes: 0
From: UK
AGAIN!!!! This is a monarch recruitment thread, I have no wish to hear about the immoral practices at easyjet et al or any wish to work for them!
Hence reading the page titled MONARCH!!!!
Is this page not moderated anymore???
Hence reading the page titled MONARCH!!!!
Is this page not moderated anymore???