BA/bmi merger (was Virgin & Balpa - bmi next ?)
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I think some of the Virgin peeps have joined the Unite union as an alternative. Sadly the whole thing plays into VS management hands as they've no got a more divided representation amongst pilots. The spotlight is on BALPA big time over this BA/BMI case. They shouldn't be backing BA just because they make up the majority of union subs. It'll all end up in a legal bun fight at this rate.
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Everything connected with the European Union is a complete bureaucratic mess. Whoever thought that ceding power to a bunch of eurocrats was a good idea is surely lamenting the decision now. We have effectively lost the sovereignty of this nation and this BA/BMI case speaks volumes on the sad state of this nation, we have become a vassal state of Brussels.
If this deal fails to go through then I will be lost for words, bearing in mind that AF/LH have a far greater percentage of slots in their home ports.
If this deal fails to go through then I will be lost for words, bearing in mind that AF/LH have a far greater percentage of slots in their home ports.
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Apologies Say-Again, I misunderstood. Completely agree with you. It's a bloody disgrace that a bunch of eurocrats could see so many people lose their jobs.
* Previously posted on a mates computer (and hence his account) in error
* Previously posted on a mates computer (and hence his account) in error
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Looks like it's on, this just in an hour ago from Reuters:
BRUSSELS (Reuters) - British Airways owner IAG is set to win EU regulatory approval to acquire German group Lufthansa's British unit bmi after offering to give up additional airport slots, a person familiar with the matter said on Thursday.
IAG had initially proposed to cede 10 slots for domestic and non-domestic routes. But it increased the number to 14 after rivals and other parties told the European Commission the concessions were not sufficient. It was not clear at which airports the 14 slots are located.
Antoine Colombani, a spokesman for the competition unit at the Commission, declined to comment on the case. Both IAG and Lufthansa also declined to comment.
The European Union executive was due to decide by Friday on the deal, which is worth 172.5 million pounds ($273 million).
IAG trumped rival bidder Virgin late last year in the race to acquire loss-making bmi, which has coveted slots at London's Heathrow airport, Europe's busiest.
IAG currently has a 43.1 percent share of the take-off and landing slots at Heathrow. Together, IAG and bmi have a combined share of 53 percent of the airport's slots.
Virgin has urged EU regulators to block the deal, saying it would harm competition and push up prices.
IAG had initially proposed to cede 10 slots for domestic and non-domestic routes. But it increased the number to 14 after rivals and other parties told the European Commission the concessions were not sufficient. It was not clear at which airports the 14 slots are located.
Antoine Colombani, a spokesman for the competition unit at the Commission, declined to comment on the case. Both IAG and Lufthansa also declined to comment.
The European Union executive was due to decide by Friday on the deal, which is worth 172.5 million pounds ($273 million).
IAG trumped rival bidder Virgin late last year in the race to acquire loss-making bmi, which has coveted slots at London's Heathrow airport, Europe's busiest.
IAG currently has a 43.1 percent share of the take-off and landing slots at Heathrow. Together, IAG and bmi have a combined share of 53 percent of the airport's slots.
Virgin has urged EU regulators to block the deal, saying it would harm competition and push up prices.
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So
Pilot A joins bmi 1st April 1992
Pilot B joins bmi. 10th April 1992
Pilot A leaves bmi 1st April 1993 joins BA.
Pilot A is pencilled in for his A380 command in 2013
Is it fair that Pilot B gets the 380 command before Pilot A due to a merged MSL on DOJ ?
Pilot A joins bmi 1st April 1992
Pilot B joins bmi. 10th April 1992
Pilot A leaves bmi 1st April 1993 joins BA.
Pilot A is pencilled in for his A380 command in 2013
Is it fair that Pilot B gets the 380 command before Pilot A due to a merged MSL on DOJ ?
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There will always be winners and losers in merged seniority lists. That's the problem with the system of seniority that's peculiar to the aviation industry. There needs to be a vehicle that respects everybody's position to the best degree, as somebody said elsewhere, 'an agreement that leaves the least number of p****d off people'!
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Morning Count. The wording on the agreement is that NO BA pilot will be disadvantaged not MOST BA wil not be disadvantged otherwise the BA pilots would have to be re-ballotted on the 'new' arrangement. Sorry bmi guys - its the bottom of the list for you with 'grandfather' rights for skippers on the 320.
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The BACC have confirmed on a number of occasions that 'NO BA pilot will be disadvantaged', they have also stated that the seniority number of no BA pilot will change. These statements were the reason a number of people voted to integrate BMI and I find it highly unlikely the CC or BA will renege on these promises.
BMI pilots will be offered two choices-
1/ a seperate A320 subfleet, which retains all existing T&C's. No more, no less!
2/ a voluntary transfer to the bottom of the MSL with grandfather rights on a new contract. This will gain BMI pilots access to BA mainline T&C's on the 34pp scale.
A simple choice and more importantly completey legal.
Something else that hasnt been mentioned is that due to the reduction of slots, IAG will have a surplus of pilots PRIOR to integration. Inevitably there will be redundancies in BMI mainline prior to integration, how these are handled by BMICC will be an added challenge.
Good luck guys!
BMI pilots will be offered two choices-
1/ a seperate A320 subfleet, which retains all existing T&C's. No more, no less!
2/ a voluntary transfer to the bottom of the MSL with grandfather rights on a new contract. This will gain BMI pilots access to BA mainline T&C's on the 34pp scale.
A simple choice and more importantly completey legal.
Something else that hasnt been mentioned is that due to the reduction of slots, IAG will have a surplus of pilots PRIOR to integration. Inevitably there will be redundancies in BMI mainline prior to integration, how these are handled by BMICC will be an added challenge.
Good luck guys!
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Jockster what about the IFALPA guidelines that BALPA should be sticking to, they're not just as simple as everyone to the bottom of the list. What about employment rights, nothing written into law about seniority, is it all going to stand-up in court should it be challenged? IAG/BA might not find the BA company council plans too palatable if it isn't respectful of the current UK/EU laws. I cannot think of a situation where the BA CC will be issuing contracts to BMI pilots, I guess BA already have departments that look after all of that, like any other company in the real world. I'm not to sure what you signed up to but it might not be what you thought it was.
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IAG/BA might not find the BA company council plans too palatable if it isn't respectful of the current UK/EU laws.
are you familiar with the requirements of TUPE (i.e. current UK/EU law)?
I'm not, but the BACC are. And they are confident that TUPE can be adhered to (and even bettered from a BMI pilot point of view) without disadvantaging any BA pilot.
They also believe that the BMI-CC's chances of securing a deal that is better than the basic requirements of TUPE would be much higher with the help/advice of the BACC. The BMI-CC seem to disagree. Rumours are that EU approval is (thankfully) forthcoming, so I guess we'll soon see which CC is right.
Last edited by BusDriverLHR; 30th Mar 2012 at 11:45.
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IFALPA-schmalpa. I hardly think a voluntary code by IFALPA is going to effectively influence the outcome of the debate in any way, shape, or form. Equally, BALPA are not going to persuade the BACC to accept a shafting for BA pilots. I doubt they'd even try lest the biggest membership group walk away from the organisation.
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IFALPA-schmalpa. I hardly think a voluntary code by IFALPA is going to effectively influence the outcome of the debate in any way, shape, or form. Equally, BALPA are not going to persuade the BACC to accept a shafting for BA pilots. I doubt they'd even try lest the biggest membership group walk away from the organisation.
Last edited by ScotPilot; 30th Mar 2012 at 14:52.
"We are incapable of acting as a collective group"......" I am hoping for an organised mass exodous from BALPA if this goes the way it is looking from where I am standing".
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Yellowpen Quote "Equally, BALPA are not going to persuade the BACC to accept a shafting for BA pilots." So is it an unbiased union with equal representation for all pilot members or BA's union? Hmmm.
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Something else that hasnt been mentioned is that due to the reduction of slots, IAG will have a surplus of pilots PRIOR to integration. Inevitably there will be redundancies in BMI mainline prior to integration, how these are handled by BMICC will be an added challenge
So there will be redundancies post purchase but prior to integration? Is this an 'official' consequence of IAG agreeing to surrender 14 of bmi's slot pairs rather than 10? Does BA mainline not have a recruitment requirement? I understand DEP hire has been suspended, however I was led to believe that the priority of integrating the bmi guys was largely the reason behind this?
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Scotpilot & Benip - You can churn out your theories about the British Airways Pilots Association til the cows come home but you are ignoring the inconvenient truth that BA negotiates with the BACC on behalf of BA pilots, not Big BALPA. Big BALPA can dictate whatever solution it wants to the BACC but they are not obliged to accept it, nor do they have a mandate from their constituents to accept it. The BACC are BA pilots negotiating collectively on behalf of BA pilots. They are not NEC stooges elected to jump when big BALPA says so. I expect the BACC to seek the best solution for BA pilots, not disadvantage their 3000+ members simply to placate others.