bmi recruiting A320 FO's with promise of BA job

[fade to grey]

No point getting outraged....

if you want loyalty buy a dog, don't expect any from an airline.

I worked for bmir when they had the 146, 60 guys made redundant in a moment....none ever invited to transfer to the EMB. Still I had a decent severance cheque.

I have recently worked for an airline that was flying for bmi (can you guess ?) on 'midhaul ' stuff. the reaction from some of the bmi guys was somewhat 'frosty' when we started. Then last year along came all these wide eyed people with 2 shiny stripes and deep pockets.....so the bmi guys had a new target in the crewroom !

it's every man for himself in this game, and everyone fights to protect their position. I didn't feel any animosity to the PTF people, more sympathy that in the race to the bottom this is what they had been reduced to doing.

[macdo]

As an ex Bizzie Air pilot I had to laugh/cry at this thread as nothing ever changes. When BMI took us over there was a meeting for the pilots at ABZ with either the then DFO or CP, who pleased us by saying that he would rather employ zero time 'approved' course pilots than see a career progression into BMI mainline. It would seem that nothing much has changed then!

[babybaby]

It seems there is no agreement between mainline and regional, or between mainline and baby, regarding mainline taking on regional or baby pilots. Any agreements were allegedly made between regional and the Group, and between baby and the Group, presumably at Group CEO level prior to the current incumbent, which would make regional's dispute with the Group, not mainline.

Another fine mess!

[Enecosse]

You are correct that there is no transfer agreement at the moment, it was torpedoed shortly after birth. But the rest is I believe incorrect. The CEO at the time AR did not negotiate transfer agreements. This was done at CC and FOD(M)'s level.
AR attended meetings where this stuff was put forward, otherwise enjoyed a game of golf.
I don't know why it all came to nought except that there were some lets say autocratic characters in ABZ who had their own agendas.

My inclination is that those in the Group (baby or regional) should benefit first. It seems only fair, in an otherwise unfair world.
So Mag Man you will find at the end of your career you will have more than one 'once in a lifetime' opportunity that was missed, you are just going to have to suck it up and stop feeling sorry for yourself.

[757_Driver]

the reaction from some of the bmi guys was somewhat 'frosty' when we started.

"somewhat frosty", try freezing Some of them were outrageous in their comments and assertions.

However some of the BMI guys - especially the ones that came across on 'secondment' to the 757 were absolute top guys.

Fortunately the cabin crew were alot more 'friendly' to us all which made up for it!

[bad bear]

facts

Can anyone post a copy of the agreement for pilot transfer from mainline to Regional or baby and also from Baby and Regional to mainline?

Re crew room "atmosphere" most bmi pilots are too knackered to socialize!

[KONSPIRACY]

Its under schedule 'L' in our MOA, bmi regional to mainline, bmi regional to baby. Not sure if its suitable to copy and paste a company document for public consumption but I assure you that it does exist.

[bad bear]

KONSPIRACY,roughly what does the schedule L say? anything about working 3 month notice and only being released if BMIR have a surplus or is it a cast Iron right? Is there a corresponding agreement from the mainline side?
why no agreement for mainline pilots to go to Regional?

[Artie Fufkin]

It's £2k upfront then £10k salary sacrifice for 5 years (which equates to about £170 pm) or until you get command.

.....

So a bit different to getting daddy to pay £25k for a bus rating on top of the £70k he already gave you to go to Oxford.

That's £52k as I see it

Hardly reason to take the moral high ground

[The Cleaner]

Er, no mate it's 12,000 TOTAL, 2k upfront and then pay the balance of 10k over five years. Which is less than the whole type rating costs at flight safety. also you then got a salary, pension, medical cover, loss of licence etc. A whole lot different to paying for entire type rating, line training then either massively reduced wage or contract work with no benefits I reckon ????

[tony2F]

good grief!!!

[Artie Fufkin]

OK fair enough.

"£10k over 5 years" is so different to "£10k salary sacrifice for 5 years".

[silverknapper]

Either way it's still pay to fly, and Regional were among the first to embrace it, hence could be blamed for contributing to the current state of the industry. I'm not out to make any point other than to those who were sneering at P2Fers early on in the post.

[Van G]

Well depends how you define it. I don't think it is the same as "pay to fly", more a bond type situation for your rating, but you are employed and paid a salary by the company.

As far as I know, the pay to fly guys at mainline we paying full whack for the rating and line training and x number of hours for no salary whatsoever. Which is how I would define "pay to fly". Paying to fly and not being paid. And more than that they were jumping the queue on people on the transfer list and people in the mainline hold pool who had been waiting for the jobs for years. Anyways, there are entire threads dedicated to the definition of PTF...

Back to the thread...if employees' jobs are uncertain within a group or company in my opinion it's totally wrong to then recruit externally. Furthermore, I think what has got people's backs up is the way the recruitment was seemingly done quite sneakily. Probably knowing there would be this back lash against it.

And it's easy to sit back when your job is looking fairly secure and say what a fuss over nothing, transfer agreement is a load of guff, etc, find jobs elsewhere (which, by the way, everyone I know is trying to do) but there isn't too much out there just now and thats why people will clutch at every straw going. And in the same position, I imagine most people would react the way the regional pilots are.

Best of luck to all at bmi.

[1013.25mb]

Can we just make one thing clear…

There are two guys on the mainline seniority list that came from the ATP deal. Both of who went and got jobs working for other airlines in the UK, before coming back to mainline. Anyone else “new” in mainline, has had their TR fully paid for by bmi and is on a full time contract.

Pay2Fly is an awful thing and it’s ruining this industry and needs to be stopped, but it has no bearing on mainline wanting to recruit type rated, experienced F/O’s.


As an aside, I think its only right that our collogues in Regional and Baby have a chance of getting into mainline. However we are not out of the woods yet, mainline could still be a sinking ship…

[spider_man]

The acquisition of BMI by IAG is due to be completed in the next 3-4 weeks. Has there been any indication as to when the first BMI pilots will transfer over to BA operations?

Will all the BMI mainline pilots be made redundant in order to be re-employed or 're-deployed' to BA mainline? Have they received their BA employment contracts yet?

[Say again s l o w l y]

If you do a bit of research, you'll see that bmi mainline is to be absorbed into BA. Pilots will not be made redundant, they're just being taken into BA.

As for the rest of the company, I'd be looking for another job really quite soon. I cannot imagine the rest of the business being kept at all.

[spider_man]

Pilots will not be made redundant, they're just being taken into BA

Thanks SayAgain. I fully appreciate the plan is to merge BMI mainline into the BA operation. However I doubt BMI pilots will be able to fly under the BA AOC or indeed BA mainline aircraft whilst still employed on BMI contracts? This would raise many issues (aircraft insurance for one). At some stage all of these pilots will have to be employed under BA contracts. I was questioning the process to be employed to achieve this (i.e. redundancy from bmi and subsequent re-employment by BA).

[Say again s l o w l y]

That's really not an issue at all. Your contract has nothing to do with the AOC, there will have to be changes and training as I'm certain SOP's will be a bit different, but overall, it's a relatively minor thing and not likely to cause any real issues.

[Enecosse]

Say again slowly my opinion for what its worth but you need to write with a little bit more compassion and humility.