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Air France Cancels Collective Labor Agreements

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Air France Cancels Collective Labor Agreements

Old 1st Feb 2012, 12:03
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Air France Cancels Collective Labor Agreements

Dutch pilot union VNV-Dalpa is reporting that AF has cancelled all collective labor agreements as of may next year. Could not find any conformation about this in the press, anyone else with more info?
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Old 1st Feb 2012, 17:24
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Well the CGT Air France have nothing about it on their website yet: News Air France

As you may know next week's planned strikes are in protest at the imposition of minimum service standards ....on strike days .
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Old 1st Feb 2012, 18:22
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SESSION EXTRAORDINAIRE DU CCE AIR FRANCE
VENDREDI 10 FEVRIER 2012
SALLE MAX HYMANS SIEGE- 9 h 30

Points inscrits de plein droit par le Président du Comité à l'ordre du jour
Conformément aux dispositions de L. 2327-14 du Code du Travail, les points suivants ont été fixés de plein droit à l'ordre du jour de la présente réunion du CCE:
Point 1:
Information sur le projet de reconstruction d'un nouveau cadre conventionnel et de:
Dénonciation partielle de la convention d'entreprise commune
o Titre 4, Chapitres 2 et 3
o Titre 7, Chapitres 1, 2, 3 et 4
Dénonciation partielle de la convention d'entreprise du Personnel Sol
o Titre 2, Chapitres 1 et 3
o Titre 3, Chapitre 2
o Titre 4, Chapitres 1 et 2
Dénonciation totale des conventions d'entreprise du Personnel Navigant Commercial et du Personnel Navigant Technique
Point 2:
Information sur le projet de reconstruction d'un nouveau cadre conventionnel et de
dénonciation d'accords d'entreprìse et d'établissement (selon les listes jointes) :
Personnel Sol
Accord Pour un Développement Partagé (12 janvier APDP 1999) et ses 4 avenants
26 accords d'étabIìssement ARTT selon liste 1 annexée et leurs avenants ultérieurs
Personnels Navigants
Personnels Navigants Commerciaux : accords selon liste 2 annexée
Personnels Navigants Techniques : accords selon liste 3 annexée
Point 3:
Information sur le projet de dénonciation de l'usage suivant : Remboursement aux
Personnels Navigants des indemnités kilométriques liées au transport domicile/lieu
de travail sur la base du taux appliqué aux indemnités kilométriques de déplacement service.
Le Président du CCE
Jean-Claude CROS

Annexe 3 Personnel Navigant Technique
16 mars 1971 et 23 juin 1971: Procès-verbal d'accord sur les principes du protocole relatif au PNT des Compagnies AF-IT-UTA
26 avril 1974: Procès-verbal de la commission de conciliation sur les principes devant déterminer les conditions d'utilisation du personnel navigant dans la région parisienne
05 décembre 1974: Protocole sur les conditions de travail et de rémunération du PNT affecté aux Caraïbes
05 janvier 1976: Accord relatif à la fonction pilotage sur les vols longue distance du réseau LC
22 décembre 1977: Procès verbal d'accord relatif aux congés
06 janvier 1978: Accord relatif à l'interprétation des dispositions réglementaires et contractuelles concernant l'attribution des temps d'arrêts et des repos
20 janvier 1978: PV relatif à la durée des congés du PNT
11 janvier 1979: Accord relatif au régime de travail et à la rémunération des instructeurs pilotes et des instructeurs mécaniciens navigants affectés au centre d'instruction du PNT
20 novembre 1979 et 12 février 1982: Avenant à |'accord du 05.12.1974 (Caraïbes)
22 décembre 1982: Constat de négociation portant sur la durée du travail
30 août 1983: Avenant à l'accord du 5 janvier 1976 relatif à la fonction pilotage sur les vols longue distance du réseau long courrier
24 mai 1984: Avenant à |'accord du 5.12.74 sur les conditions de travail et de rémunération du PNT affecté à la délégation générale caraïbes
9 août 1985: Constat de fin de négociations concernant |'interprétation des articles D422-11-12 du CAC et des modalités d'app|ication de certaines dispositions du PV du 16/03/1971
31 mai 1989: Protocole d'accord concernant les conditions de travail et de rémunération des PNT affectés sur moyen-courrier
13 décembre 1990: Protocole d'accord relatif aux contrats de qualification PNT
17 avril 1991: Avenant au protocole d'accord contrats de qualification PNT du 13/12/1990
02 septembre 1992: Protocole d'accord portant définition des conditions d'emploi du PNT en équipage à 2 sur avions long-courriers
1'" novembre 1993: Protocole Instructeurs IAPL
08 mars 1996: Accord pour la mise en oeuvre à titre expérimental des règles d'utilisation du PNT
25 octobre 1996: Procès verbal relatif aux comités d'hébergement
20 mars 1997: Règles utilisation LC et MC
25 novembre 1997: Adaptation des règles d'utilisation
22 novembre 1999: Protocole Instructeurs et Contrôleurs (Annexes : lettres DP.GU et 00.059/CM)
07 janvier 2000: Protocole d'accord contrats de qualification PNT
10 avril 2000: Protocole d'accord relatif aux règles de gestion applicables aux cadets titulaires de contrats de qualification
10 avril 2000: Protocole d'accord relatif aux règles de gestion applicables aux stagiaires pilotes cadets
1e' février 2001: Avenant au protocole d'accord contrats de qualification PNT du 07 janvier 2000
8 mars 2001: Protocole d'accord relatif à |'introduction de dans la flotte Air France dans le cadre d'une biqualification A340/A330.
21 mars 2001: Protocole d'accord d'aménagement et de réduction du temps de travail des pilotes
25 mars 2001: Procès verbal relatif aux comités d'hébergement
18 juin 2001: Protocole Instructeur Contrôleur Pilote
26 octobre 2001: Avenant au protocole d'accord contrats de qualification PNT du O7 janvier 2000
21 décembre 2001: Accord Intermédiaire
30 avril 2002: Protocole d'accord sur les modalités d'app|ication du passage en rémunération des heures créditées
06 février 2003: Protocole d'accord relatif aux règles de rémunération applicables aux PNT affectés aux Antilles
18 juin 2003: Accord Collectif PNT 2003-2005 (pour les dispositions à durée indéterminée)
09 juin 2004: Avenant à l'accord collectif PNT 2003-2005
21 décembre 2004: Accord d'ajustement des règles de rémunération applicables aux PNT affectés aux Antilles
15 novembre 2005: Protocole d'accord relatif à la qualification A330/A340
05 mai 2006: Accord PNT 2006 (pour les dispositions à durée indéterminée)
23 juillet 2007: Plan de partage de la performance
23 juillet 2010: Accord relatif au traitement mensuel fixe des pilotes cadets
You know What ?
This means WAR.
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Old 1st Feb 2012, 18:28
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Well it had to happen,AF FC and CC have been living on borrowed time for ages.
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Old 1st Feb 2012, 19:20
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just by seeing this entire list of so called "agreements" you can find a reason for denouncing everything.
The idea is to reset all this mess, to built something new , to transform!
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Old 1st Feb 2012, 19:22
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To become competative.
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Old 1st Feb 2012, 19:42
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Trouble at mill. . . had to happen I guess, if you look at the shyte Sarko failed to stop Le France getting into.
Still, in the interests of fairness, he did have some vaguely good reforming ideas,( & did take over the reins at a rather innoportune moment in the worlds economy calendar) but was also quite probably in the worst country to espouse them.
God knows why they voted for him, they sure as Hell won't a 2nd time, not really their "tasse de the " was he ?

As always, all the best les Braves, you may in AF be Dinosaurs/Atlantic Barons in the BOAC mould, but at least, you are trying to preserve what little status/benefits this career had/barely has.

It will all end in tears, & I shall certainly not be booking AF as it comes to a head, sh1t WILL happen.
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Old 1st Feb 2012, 19:57
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As always, all the best les Braves, you may in AF be Dinosaurs/Atlantic Barons in the BOAC mould, but at least, you are trying to preserve what little status/benefits this career had/barely has.
Problem is that AF has been massively state funded until recent years,and you can understand that 'le fonction publique' is a 'benifice trop cher' in our times.
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Old 1st Feb 2012, 20:26
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The problem, is that they, like Sabena/Alitalia/Olympic/ & later this week Malev . . . need I go on, do not want to see it that way, & neither would I.

Unfortunately, the Good Days are over, for them too. In supporting them, it is not a vain attempt to circumvent reality, merely to wish them luck in . . . preserving as much as they can, because you can be sure that the management & bean counters will be hoping to live "the dream" a bit longer yet, so why the hell shouldn't they.
Me I think they should fight tooth & nail for every last €cent, because the ones trousering the savings won't be counting in centimes .

They may dump the Odd Airbus in the Atlantic , or at the end of a Canadian R/W, but their wish to be treated as SkyGods is on our side lest we forget ( "we" meaning pilots, & if you are not, I am quite possibly not singing from the same hymn sheet as you anyhow, so excuse me )
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Old 1st Feb 2012, 20:33
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How would you like having 48 days off per annum,having to accept a 13th months salary at the end of december to pay for christmas prezzies,and to cap it all ,you get 7 days off consecutive per month on a full time contract if you work long haul.All that and your pay is better than if you are cc on an oldish ww contract.Subsidised company owned holiday destinations.....list goes on .....and on.....and on......just remains to ask oneself, what have the CEOs of AF been dreaming of over the last few years.....burying heads in the sand comes to mind.
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Old 1st Feb 2012, 20:37
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Am CC and wish just as much as you that a career in the air is a goal until retirement.....but lets be realistic
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Old 1st Feb 2012, 20:44
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Personally, I hope they retain as much of it as possible.

Didn't we all come into this business with perceptions that it might (just) be, as you described ? for most of us it wasn't (not even close) not for that I begrudge the ones who invented & perpetrated that "myth" (but it wasn't)

Jealous ? Hell Yes , Invidious ? not for a moment !
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Old 1st Feb 2012, 20:56
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Personally, I hope they retain as much of it as possible.
Great....but how are they going to compete with MF...they are offering the same long haul service,no better no worse,....two cafes offering the same menu at 10 or 15 euros which will you chose.The french state and N.S cannot continue subsidising AF as they have been.It is going to be a kick up the b.s for all AF employees ,my mrs included.
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Old 1st Feb 2012, 21:06
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Have to hope a bit of (misplaced) National Pride will keep the masses flocking their way.
More chance of it working with the Frogs than the rest of us Eh ? Good for them ! I am all for a bit of Nationalist Myopia every now & then, even if I am somewhat immunised, having "fled" these shores 20 yrs ago.
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Old 1st Feb 2012, 21:11
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Agree @200%,will just keep my fingers and toes ,ears and nasil hairs crossed!
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Old 1st Feb 2012, 21:47
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tomkins

having to accept a 13th months salary at the end of december to pay for christmas prezzies,
Not saying it's right or sustainable but AFAIK that's has very much been the norm for many workers in many industries in France, as has been the subsidised holiday deals/destinations, so it's not just an AF deal...anyone care to confirm/deny?

Must admit I agree with others, it does look like war and it will end in tears..........
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Old 1st Feb 2012, 22:11
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Wiggy ,worked for the best part of 20 years in france and to be sure any job connected with the state has had enormous benefits including subsidised holildays etc.....the 35 hour week has not helped productivity/competitivity,so it is not an enigma that the french economy is discovering that it is really in deep poo.The problem in france is that the unions are ALL powerful and that change will be even more painful than in the uk
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Old 2nd Feb 2012, 01:40
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Word from above is that once the presidential elections are over the reorganisation of AF will start. Can say alot about Sarko but he is a smart cookie

The interesting thing is the discussion in France about the amount of union staff all the unions have and more interesting their `offices`.....
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Old 2nd Feb 2012, 05:26
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Well it seems that the efforts have to be supported by pilots and cabin crew only.
As usual in France first line workers are shot while office staff stay away from any efforts.
Airline means: Planes, crew, engineers, selling team.
Too many people eating on the beast and in the Air France's case these one are managers.
Super chief, chief, under chief and so on. The russian doll has to be emptied before shooting the ones making the cash.
A good and profitable airline has to be chief less and the working team reduced to the minimum.
KLM offices could take care of an enormous part of the administrative work for the group...

Tot ziens
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Old 2nd Feb 2012, 08:14
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Bon courage navigants

It never ceases to amaze me how the first to side with management and denounce the "unbelievable privileges" of pilots are always... other pilots.

We slave away for years to learn our trade, risking our lives if in the military, working for poverty-wages if in general aviation, or else putting our entire family deeply in debt if paying our way through to line training. If we're lucky enough to make it to the fabled airline job, we then spend a large chunk of our lifetimes away from our families, missing out on countless weekends/festivities/get-togethers with friends, working at odd hours, skipping meals, dealing with whatever weather or tech problems the gods might throw at us, battling jet-lag and stress, and generally living a very unhealthy lifestyle, all on the understanding that you could lose everything you've fought for at the very next medical or check-ride.

Notwithstanding all their perks, I'm willing to bet AF's cockpit crew represent no more than 3% or so of the airline's total costs. And yet management always want more, more and more, even as their own bonuses grow ever bigger.

Even if you don't want to support your colleagues precisely because they are your fellow aviators, consider that even as AF management deal with their "excessive cost", your management is eying you and thinking the exact same thing. As soon as those haughty AF pilots are "cut down a notch", you're probably next in line.

Personally, I admire AF pilots for refusing to join the race to the bottom that this industry has become.
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