Family vs long-haul
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I did SH loco for 8 years, the wife and I were often ships in the night. Five lates and I rarely saw her, five earlies and I was a Zombie. Mulitple sectors will crush you eventually. I am about to go LH and I can't wait. It is my perception (after much research) that the quality of my life as a whole will improve immeasurably.
The way professional aviation is today I think it wise not to expect an awful lot from it. I try to make my time away from work the side that really counts.
Do it, life is short.
The way professional aviation is today I think it wise not to expect an awful lot from it. I try to make my time away from work the side that really counts.
Do it, life is short.
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Do it, life is short.
If you and your wife were ships in the night does she have a job? If so, and assuming it's 9-5, Monday to Friday, when you don't get weekends off as you're away on a trip how is it going to be better?
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I've flown military for 10 years, short-haul in Europe for 6 years and now long-haul for the past 6. Never had as much time at home with my family as I do now. Quantity of time and quality time.
Obviously, needs to be with a major airline with set guidelines for time off after trips. Most airlines also have some type of request system for securing special days off such as birthdays etc. Consider as well number of holiday/leave days. Flying long-haul normally is done with multiple pilots which affords in-flight rest offering some respite to fatigue. Short-haul multiple sector days offer a quick nap while waiting for the next flight's pax to arrive.
All this being considered, there is something to be said for flying a set roster 4-5 days on 3 off and living driving distance to your base. Stability and predictability.
Make the decision based on your family and personal priorities and then don't look back.
Cheers
Obviously, needs to be with a major airline with set guidelines for time off after trips. Most airlines also have some type of request system for securing special days off such as birthdays etc. Consider as well number of holiday/leave days. Flying long-haul normally is done with multiple pilots which affords in-flight rest offering some respite to fatigue. Short-haul multiple sector days offer a quick nap while waiting for the next flight's pax to arrive.
All this being considered, there is something to be said for flying a set roster 4-5 days on 3 off and living driving distance to your base. Stability and predictability.
Make the decision based on your family and personal priorities and then don't look back.
Cheers
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Thanx everybody for your opinion. I had studied the LH roster before (there are only few flights with long stopover) but the problem is that I'm not sure it won't change. Everything is going so fast today.
Anyway, I've got lots of useful information and advice here. Thank you guys!
Anyway, I've got lots of useful information and advice here. Thank you guys!
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Don't read too much into thread 19 reply as most if not all majors have renumeration tied to aircraft size hence most aspire to fly bigger aircraft for greater pay. If it was all fleet pay I have no doubt that the figures would be totally different if not reversed. An even ballance of 8 years each SH and LH has seen a huge reduction in sickness in SH as less time spent in hotels and long flights with people carting numerous diseases. Less hotels of sanitised air quality and less time in hotels in SH has certainly seen a better quality of personnal life in Short Haul. Not glamerous but better quality of life with 2 daughters.
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I don't want to push you towards the one or the other side. But I can give you an advise for the "jealous wife problem": Nowadays there is free internet in every 5 star hotels (what kind of hotels does your future company provide?), so you can easily stay in contact with her (Skype, MSN, mail, video conference aso). Tell her that you don't go to the bar every night (and proof that you don't). You can do stupid mistakes among crews on SH as you can on LH...
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Reply 19 and BA short haul is perhaps a little misleading in that as I understand until recently there was a connection between aircraft flown and pay. BA short haul involves a lot of nights in hotels, as the UK short haul I fly involves almost no nights away. Having experienced mixed fleet flying I'm glad I'm not personally permanent long haul all the time.
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To pick up on some of the points raised above;
Basic pay at BA for LH v SH is equal at paypoint 1, splitting by about 20% by the time you reach PP24.
Allowances vary by an approximate amount, (although not with length of service). Cost of living down-route negates almost 50% of this increase.
SH at BA has a wide variety of trip lengths, from day trips to 5 day trips. The 'top 500' I mentioned would have the seniority to be rostered almost completely day trips if they wished.
So yes, money does play a part in peoples choice to fly LH over SH (surely this is a factor which the original poster will too have to consider?), but from conversations I have had very few would return to SH if the financial difference didn't exist. Contrary to ao767, I imagine the statistics I previously mentioned would remain largely unchanged.
Also worth consideration, as mentioned above, is the notion of 'quality home time' vs nights in bed. They are not the same thing. On a 5 day block of 'lates' on SH you may never see your bed before 11pm, with your school going kids out of the house at 0730 the next morning.
With the increased number of full days off generated by LH, the difference in 'quality home time' is not nearly as great as some have indicated.
Granted, my experience is with BA only. The discussion is somewhat pointless unless we know exactly what's on offer from CatPilots current SH outfit and his potential LH company.
Basic pay at BA for LH v SH is equal at paypoint 1, splitting by about 20% by the time you reach PP24.
Allowances vary by an approximate amount, (although not with length of service). Cost of living down-route negates almost 50% of this increase.
SH at BA has a wide variety of trip lengths, from day trips to 5 day trips. The 'top 500' I mentioned would have the seniority to be rostered almost completely day trips if they wished.
So yes, money does play a part in peoples choice to fly LH over SH (surely this is a factor which the original poster will too have to consider?), but from conversations I have had very few would return to SH if the financial difference didn't exist. Contrary to ao767, I imagine the statistics I previously mentioned would remain largely unchanged.
Also worth consideration, as mentioned above, is the notion of 'quality home time' vs nights in bed. They are not the same thing. On a 5 day block of 'lates' on SH you may never see your bed before 11pm, with your school going kids out of the house at 0730 the next morning.
With the increased number of full days off generated by LH, the difference in 'quality home time' is not nearly as great as some have indicated.
Granted, my experience is with BA only. The discussion is somewhat pointless unless we know exactly what's on offer from CatPilots current SH outfit and his potential LH company.
Last edited by BusDriverLHR; 25th Sep 2011 at 14:48.
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Tough call
As many have already posted: this is a tough call, but you're doing the right thing: asking for information so you can make an informed decision.
Obviously, this is a decision you will have to sit down with the wife and work out TOGETHER. So keep on gathering more info; a lot of the advice from your peers on this thread is very good.
Over the past 21+ years I've done the instructor (home every night), domestic US flying, and long haul international flying. I found I liked long haul international flying early in my career as a Classic 747 FO, but the trips were generally only 5-7 days long. As my kids got older, I stuck with domestic flying (US) and teaching in the sim. I was home A LOT (which can actually cause problems too!?!), flying by displacement for proficiency. I was also a junior Captain at the time, so my flying schedules would have been marginal at best, so teaching was a good option. Now that I have some good seniority, and my kids are older/married off, I'm back to flying flying haul exclusively again.
Warning: some folks can not adjust to the multiple time zone changes of long haul flying. It's a different animal. With my company, I can end up in Asia quickly, then fly around Asia for ten days then dead head home. I just finished a 12 day Asia trip (it IS too long, but the homecoming is NICE). I can also choose to just fly shorter North Atlantic crossings. Your situation/company schedules will dictate what lifestyle you'll have to work with.
When I come back from a long international trip, it takes me a good two days to get back in cycle with the wife and kids. My relatives who fly domestic US legacy schedules are just as tired when they get home, but not as jet lagged. The difference: I still have another 10-12 days off after recovery time, whereas they are immediately back in the fray for another 3-4 day domestic multi-leg sequence.
Best of luck!
PS. When you have the seniority to fly long haul trips with 4-5 day layovers, buy your wife a ticket and bring her along! It's a gas, but you'd better be able to show her the sights, not just the good bars and whore houses!!
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My current gig flying cargo is the best balance I have had in 16 years. Two or three tours per month varying from 3 days to 9 days with the ability to request what you want, mostly heavy crew and some medium/short sectors in the middle to balance LH/ULH bits. Lots of time off in between.
The downside is not much money compared to pax flying but being in the twilight of my "career" with most of the big bills paid I don't care that much. Keeps it out of the hands of HMRC. The upside is about half the flying hours per year which more than compensates and allows the time to generate cash elsewhere.
I can't imagine ever going back to flying people around and doing 6 trips/month LH or six on/one off on SH unless yet another redundancy forced my hand. And even then I would have to think hard about it.
Just an opinion.
The downside is not much money compared to pax flying but being in the twilight of my "career" with most of the big bills paid I don't care that much. Keeps it out of the hands of HMRC. The upside is about half the flying hours per year which more than compensates and allows the time to generate cash elsewhere.
I can't imagine ever going back to flying people around and doing 6 trips/month LH or six on/one off on SH unless yet another redundancy forced my hand. And even then I would have to think hard about it.
Just an opinion.
