A320 or B737 ?
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A320 or B737 ?
Hi All,
I am an experience pilot (ATPL, ICAO, 2400 TT), decided to locate my self to East Asia.
in order to get a f/o position, decided to aquire a type rating on a popular
airliner.
the dilemma is 737 or A320 ???
i would like your opinion on the subject considering the following:
* which type produces more vacancies now and in the near future?
* countries like China, Japan, India, are barely hiring expats (f/o positions)
correct me if i am wrong (especially regarding China?).
* i don't posses oceania/pacific passport (so Australia, New Zealand, etc' are
out of question)
* being Israeli, can't work in Muslim countries.
in numbers - there are in south east Asia:
737 - around 1350 (all models) and on order 650
A320 - around 950 (all versions) and on order more then 900
I am an experience pilot (ATPL, ICAO, 2400 TT), decided to locate my self to East Asia.
in order to get a f/o position, decided to aquire a type rating on a popular
airliner.
the dilemma is 737 or A320 ???
i would like your opinion on the subject considering the following:
* which type produces more vacancies now and in the near future?
* countries like China, Japan, India, are barely hiring expats (f/o positions)
correct me if i am wrong (especially regarding China?).
* i don't posses oceania/pacific passport (so Australia, New Zealand, etc' are
out of question)
* being Israeli, can't work in Muslim countries.
in numbers - there are in south east Asia:
737 - around 1350 (all models) and on order 650
A320 - around 950 (all versions) and on order more then 900
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Call me old fashioned: the one that you are hired for. i.e. get a job first and then type. A type without 500 hrs is worthless in Asia unless you are a national. 
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I am not expert on the balance of power between Boeing and Airbus in Asia. Your numbers seem to indicate there is nothing between them at the moment.
However, worldwide it is clear who the current front runner is for future growth of existing airframes (of course things change quickly in aviation but this is as it stands now!) It looks possible that Boeing will have to introduce a new a/c type to compete in the short haul market. Thus a 737 rating could well prove a little more restrictive in terms of future job prospects. Of course, it is still a hugely viable option, but perhaps doesn't stand you in quite as good a position as an Airbus rating.
This article may be of interest -
FT.com / Companies / Aerospace & Defence - Boeing-Airbus dogfight flares up again
However, worldwide it is clear who the current front runner is for future growth of existing airframes (of course things change quickly in aviation but this is as it stands now!) It looks possible that Boeing will have to introduce a new a/c type to compete in the short haul market. Thus a 737 rating could well prove a little more restrictive in terms of future job prospects. Of course, it is still a hugely viable option, but perhaps doesn't stand you in quite as good a position as an Airbus rating.
This article may be of interest -
FT.com / Companies / Aerospace & Defence - Boeing-Airbus dogfight flares up again
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I can tell you, it does not matter if you have a rating or not, it's all about that bloody 500h on type!
I have thousands on B737 and only 200 on A320. -> I am always invited for assessment if it's a B737 but never got an invitation for A320. Always same answer, we're sorry, but you do not have 500h on type.
I have thousands on B737 and only 200 on A320. -> I am always invited for assessment if it's a B737 but never got an invitation for A320. Always same answer, we're sorry, but you do not have 500h on type.
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1. whichever fleet will give you the best trips.
2. whichever fleet will earn you the most money.
3. very few memory items with the Airbus.
4. the 73's have small, cramped and noisy cockpits.
5. after AP engagement, do you really want a control column in front of you for the next 5 hours getting in the way of your meals and ops manual reading.
2. whichever fleet will earn you the most money.
3. very few memory items with the Airbus.
4. the 73's have small, cramped and noisy cockpits.
5. after AP engagement, do you really want a control column in front of you for the next 5 hours getting in the way of your meals and ops manual reading.
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Would not recommend ANY rating, unless you are offered a job at the same time.
All time Airbus fan, confort, technology, ergonomic and logical cockpit. However quite tricky in degraded mode, therefore flying in normal ops makes you think you can master all, but give a couple of failures, and you better know your aircraft, it can throw you a picture you may not like if you don't understand it.
Would never want to have a yoke in front of me again. Long term options are good, common cockpit with 330/340, you could get rated on another type in a week.
Dunno 737, not interested. For me it's a dinosaur. As I read once in a popular flight magazine: 737NG is like having a 1962 Ford Cortina, and fitting a Mondeo's dash board: it's still a Ford Cortina...
Loved the 727, although on got a one time ferry and a few jumpseats on it.
But again, without a job, it would be a waste, or at least a huge gamble.
All time Airbus fan, confort, technology, ergonomic and logical cockpit. However quite tricky in degraded mode, therefore flying in normal ops makes you think you can master all, but give a couple of failures, and you better know your aircraft, it can throw you a picture you may not like if you don't understand it.
Would never want to have a yoke in front of me again. Long term options are good, common cockpit with 330/340, you could get rated on another type in a week.
Dunno 737, not interested. For me it's a dinosaur. As I read once in a popular flight magazine: 737NG is like having a 1962 Ford Cortina, and fitting a Mondeo's dash board: it's still a Ford Cortina...
Loved the 727, although on got a one time ferry and a few jumpseats on it.
But again, without a job, it would be a waste, or at least a huge gamble.
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After 22years rated on type I should say 737, but . . . for the moment, Boeing are dithering on new engine/new aircraft decision. Meanwhile Airbus are racking up orders for A320Neo.
If I had to spend the money (even if I don't "really" trust FBW Airbus
) I would be forced to say Airbus makes more sense, considering also that you will be half -way, or more , to being A330/340/380 rated.
As previous posters said, 500hrs on type is the generally accepted/demanded minimum, so don't buy any rating without a conditional job offer to accompany the expenditure.
That is a mugs game, do you realise how many 737/A20 pilot without any experience on type have been fleeced these last few years ? believe me there are a fair few around.
If I had to spend the money (even if I don't "really" trust FBW Airbus
) I would be forced to say Airbus makes more sense, considering also that you will be half -way, or more , to being A330/340/380 rated.As previous posters said, 500hrs on type is the generally accepted/demanded minimum, so don't buy any rating without a conditional job offer to accompany the expenditure.
That is a mugs game, do you realise how many 737/A20 pilot without any experience on type have been fleeced these last few years ? believe me there are a fair few around.
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Undermining
Dear Aviator,
You are 42 years of age, have 2.400 hrs of expirience, what did you do all your life? What did you fly before? Where have you been? At your age people go into the 5 digits normaly +10.000 hrs, the mad ones coming up to over 15.000 hrs.
Why do you want to pay for a Type Rating yourself? That undermines the Pilots who look for a Job to feed the Family and loved ones and supports exatly those crucks in the Industry who take all off you: First the clothes, you are naked, then your skinn, you are bare, then your meat, you loose your dignety at the end when you are a skeletton in the system. So what do you gain by paying for a Type Rating and gambling? You will always have the wrong one, EMB 170/190 is also famous and a niche Type.
I was sitting sometimes on a Table and had to select who comes to an interview when I was reading CV´s and summary´s. Usualy it works that way: People who have a recommendation from someone within the Company where selected first to prevent fakers, then if the seats where still not filled, the higher numbers where the front runners.
I see you competing with some Local Ex-Military Pilots in your aiming geographical wishes. That makes it more difficult as well. In Far East they have about 15 Years of Air-Force, Navy or Army after education so they are as well in the late 30´s early 40´s and have the same hours / age ratio like you. Now You guess..... Put on a diffrent pair of shoes and look at the credentials and be honest with the answer.
I think the money you want to spent on that is better parked in a safe investment, at least it gives you some interest rate back.
I do not want to discourage you from trying something out of the routine. The World belongs to the brave.
Fly safe and land happy
You are 42 years of age, have 2.400 hrs of expirience, what did you do all your life? What did you fly before? Where have you been? At your age people go into the 5 digits normaly +10.000 hrs, the mad ones coming up to over 15.000 hrs.
Why do you want to pay for a Type Rating yourself? That undermines the Pilots who look for a Job to feed the Family and loved ones and supports exatly those crucks in the Industry who take all off you: First the clothes, you are naked, then your skinn, you are bare, then your meat, you loose your dignety at the end when you are a skeletton in the system. So what do you gain by paying for a Type Rating and gambling? You will always have the wrong one, EMB 170/190 is also famous and a niche Type.
I was sitting sometimes on a Table and had to select who comes to an interview when I was reading CV´s and summary´s. Usualy it works that way: People who have a recommendation from someone within the Company where selected first to prevent fakers, then if the seats where still not filled, the higher numbers where the front runners.
I see you competing with some Local Ex-Military Pilots in your aiming geographical wishes. That makes it more difficult as well. In Far East they have about 15 Years of Air-Force, Navy or Army after education so they are as well in the late 30´s early 40´s and have the same hours / age ratio like you. Now You guess..... Put on a diffrent pair of shoes and look at the credentials and be honest with the answer.
I think the money you want to spent on that is better parked in a safe investment, at least it gives you some interest rate back.
I do not want to discourage you from trying something out of the routine. The World belongs to the brave.
Fly safe and land happy
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Maybe the guy started flying late - we know very little about his background! So what if he's 42 with 'only' 2400 hours! Better than 42 with 200 hours!!
I've met a lot of people like him with reasonable commercial experience but who are stuck on outdated types (Shorts 360 or Jetstream 31 for example) and see no alternative to career progression other than getting themselves a more modern jet type. Buying a type rating is definitely not something that started a few years ago - a mate of mine who is now a TRI got himself a 737 rating in 1995 having been stuck on Kingairs and old Citations for too many years.
Of course it is a risk and it may all blow up in his face but it his life and his risk to take!!
On balance I'd go for the Airbus!
Good luck!!
I've met a lot of people like him with reasonable commercial experience but who are stuck on outdated types (Shorts 360 or Jetstream 31 for example) and see no alternative to career progression other than getting themselves a more modern jet type. Buying a type rating is definitely not something that started a few years ago - a mate of mine who is now a TRI got himself a 737 rating in 1995 having been stuck on Kingairs and old Citations for too many years.
Of course it is a risk and it may all blow up in his face but it his life and his risk to take!!
On balance I'd go for the Airbus!
Good luck!!
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Althought I am against P2F, I had to invest in a TR to get where I needed in my career. Never paid for line training or else, but one has to consider various perspectives when talking about spending money for a type rating:
Many people would not hesitate to take a loan in order to buy a $50,000 brand new Mercedes...Guess what? Given the choice, I'd take a nice A320 type rating for half the price, and still be able to afford a decent $25,000 new car...
Investing in a type rating is not nonsense, of course as long as you can have a reasonable plan to fly it soon after. But is the gamble that different from investing 100,000 Euros for a CPL multi-IR? When you start, nobody knows if it's ever going to bear fruit.
Training has become a real cash-cow business like nothing before. More than 15 years ago, my CPL multi-IR cost me $9,600... I spent more on food and accomodation.. but to save the money, I flew a microlight, cropspraying bananas in Africa for a year... Some days it scared the sh*t out of me. Did not have any back-up for a loan then.
I guess it is about personal goals and sense of achievement. If the guy is 42 y/o and can see through the investment and training, and more get satisfaction in what he does, why not.
I would love to enroll NTPS and do my test pilot course. But I ain't cutting my veins to find the enormous amount of money required. If I win the lottery, I'll go, just for the fun of it, and for the thrill of learning something new, even if I never fly after that.
Flex
Many people would not hesitate to take a loan in order to buy a $50,000 brand new Mercedes...Guess what? Given the choice, I'd take a nice A320 type rating for half the price, and still be able to afford a decent $25,000 new car...
Investing in a type rating is not nonsense, of course as long as you can have a reasonable plan to fly it soon after. But is the gamble that different from investing 100,000 Euros for a CPL multi-IR? When you start, nobody knows if it's ever going to bear fruit.
Training has become a real cash-cow business like nothing before. More than 15 years ago, my CPL multi-IR cost me $9,600... I spent more on food and accomodation.. but to save the money, I flew a microlight, cropspraying bananas in Africa for a year... Some days it scared the sh*t out of me. Did not have any back-up for a loan then.
I guess it is about personal goals and sense of achievement. If the guy is 42 y/o and can see through the investment and training, and more get satisfaction in what he does, why not.
I would love to enroll NTPS and do my test pilot course. But I ain't cutting my veins to find the enormous amount of money required. If I win the lottery, I'll go, just for the fun of it, and for the thrill of learning something new, even if I never fly after that.
Flex
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Flex Pwr
"Althought I am against P2F, I had to invest in a TR to get where I needed in my career".
Now, I'm really confused.
Last week (in a Wizz thread) you were bemoaning the deteriorating terms and conditions in Bucharest in your company. Now, you make the above statement about being where you need to be in your career.
Can you see why companies like W6 can treat their pilots the way they do, especially when there's a willingness to "invest" in something that your employer (W6 - or whichever "service provider" you are forced to work through) should be doing for you.
Such willingness to "invest" is killing our careers. No benefits is now normal. Certainly no housing allowances in W6 and elsewhere. You can't have it both ways - either accept that it's difficult to get a jet job without "investing", or accept the fact that more people have followed your example and "invested", thereby cheapening our profession yet further.
Glad to hear you can afford a new car however. Perhaps things aren't as bad as you first made out?
Now, I'm really confused.
Last week (in a Wizz thread) you were bemoaning the deteriorating terms and conditions in Bucharest in your company. Now, you make the above statement about being where you need to be in your career.
Can you see why companies like W6 can treat their pilots the way they do, especially when there's a willingness to "invest" in something that your employer (W6 - or whichever "service provider" you are forced to work through) should be doing for you.
Such willingness to "invest" is killing our careers. No benefits is now normal. Certainly no housing allowances in W6 and elsewhere. You can't have it both ways - either accept that it's difficult to get a jet job without "investing", or accept the fact that more people have followed your example and "invested", thereby cheapening our profession yet further.
Glad to hear you can afford a new car however. Perhaps things aren't as bad as you first made out?
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Narrow Runway,
Although your comment is off topic, let me clarify this for you:
I maintain my comment for a very simple reason: the Wizzair story is that I took up the job already qualified, and did not wait Wizzair to give me a type rating on the Airbus.
Secondly, I joined with specific terms and conditions laid down in the contract. I see no contradiction in choosing to get out when the airline does not want to honor the contract terms, or change them without mutual agreement. This is quite the opposite: not accepting to stay with downgrading conditions is exactly the way to help the pilots conditions: all do the same and the airline in question will have to review it's package on the up side.
Thirdly, I think you have taken the car comment as first degree: I did not buy a new Mercedes, nor any car for that matter, it was given as an example how people may see an investment as an expense, or vice versa.
Lastly, I don't see what point you are trying to make. And I don't care.
Flex
Although your comment is off topic, let me clarify this for you:
I maintain my comment for a very simple reason: the Wizzair story is that I took up the job already qualified, and did not wait Wizzair to give me a type rating on the Airbus.
Secondly, I joined with specific terms and conditions laid down in the contract. I see no contradiction in choosing to get out when the airline does not want to honor the contract terms, or change them without mutual agreement. This is quite the opposite: not accepting to stay with downgrading conditions is exactly the way to help the pilots conditions: all do the same and the airline in question will have to review it's package on the up side.
Thirdly, I think you have taken the car comment as first degree: I did not buy a new Mercedes, nor any car for that matter, it was given as an example how people may see an investment as an expense, or vice versa.
Lastly, I don't see what point you are trying to make. And I don't care.
Flex
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Go for the Airbus and target AirAsia. With its major expansion in the next few years there will be a need for pilots in the region. Plus, the flight attendants are HOT. That would be an added bonus. FYI - pay is evidently not strong by European/ME standards. Still, pilots will be needed.
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Flex
The point, that you don't care about is this:
1) you advocate paying for a rating, to get your career where it needs to be, whilst simultaneously bemoaning the terms and conditions of that very job being currently degraded, and;
2) the irony being that your terms and conditions are being eroded because yet more pilots are willing to undermine you by paying for a rating and accepting the fact that the package keeps getting worse. All in order to get the "lucky break".
If you can't see that on one hand you're shouting loudly about the evils of your employer lowering your package, whilst on the other hand praising the system that allows them to do so.........
........but as you've already said, you don't care.
Good luck in your upcoming change of job.
1) you advocate paying for a rating, to get your career where it needs to be, whilst simultaneously bemoaning the terms and conditions of that very job being currently degraded, and;
2) the irony being that your terms and conditions are being eroded because yet more pilots are willing to undermine you by paying for a rating and accepting the fact that the package keeps getting worse. All in order to get the "lucky break".
If you can't see that on one hand you're shouting loudly about the evils of your employer lowering your package, whilst on the other hand praising the system that allows them to do so.........
........but as you've already said, you don't care.
Good luck in your upcoming change of job.
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@ Iver
Did you carefully read what avieh7 wrote? It explicitly says "being Israeli, can't work in Muslim countries". Air Asia's parent body is in Malaysia; hmmm, a "Muslim" country?? Hint hint.
Did you carefully read what avieh7 wrote? It explicitly says "being Israeli, can't work in Muslim countries". Air Asia's parent body is in Malaysia; hmmm, a "Muslim" country?? Hint hint.
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Good point. But won't AirAsia be located in various countries (i.e., franchise airlines)? Could he not just work in a non-Muslim country for an AirAsia affiliate carrier? What about AirAsia Viet Nam (whatever the real name is) or another non-Malaysian affiliate?
Just asking...
Just asking...
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Ok let me make this simple, so you want waste your $$$$. You have to make a discussion where you want to be based. In US you don’t need type on type, so any jet will do. If you look in to Asia it’s the 737NG, the rest of the world is A320. Remember the transition from 737 to 777 its 3 sessions and a check.
Its seems like you have a line training set up, go for the BUS, its hot right now. Feel free PM
And don’t worry about the haters, you have enough time to make it
Good luck
Its seems like you have a line training set up, go for the BUS, its hot right now. Feel free PM
And don’t worry about the haters, you have enough time to make it
Good luck