Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Terms and Endearment
Reload this Page >

I have finally had enough!!!

Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

I have finally had enough!!!

Old 21st Jun 2011, 10:59
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: North of Watford
Posts: 102
I have finally had enough!!!

This is it. After years in this industry I can tolerate it no more. I now want out but am stuck in the age old dilemma of what to do? As an experienced airline employee of many airlines, the phrase 'one trick pony' is wholly appropriate. Many skills related to this industry but few that are recognised outside as useful. I now need to leave for my own sanity, to make way for another who still loves flying. Too much management abuse, too much bs, has taken its toll and now a career change is necessary before i become completely suicidal!!! Anyone out there got any decent ideas, or experience of a change that takes them away from this nightmare. Please I would consider anything right at this moment that would give me some sort of interest and meaning back.
If you have anything or know of anything let me know. If you still love the job good luck to you, one day you might wake up and realise that what i feel is the majority not the minority any more.
saddest aviator is offline  
Old 21st Jun 2011, 11:26
  #2 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NL
Posts: 5
Start studying something else? See about starting your own business of sorts?
Fish1 is offline  
Old 21st Jun 2011, 11:27
  #3 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In a far better place
Posts: 2,481
Are you employed by LCC?

What is your position?

Do you have a funded retirement plan along with other benefits?

Do you have a savings account set up should you decide to leave your current employer?

Do you have children? If so is their university funded?

Based on your age, are you marketable to another emloyer?

What burden will you be placing on your family should you change your profession now?

Have you discussed your situation with your spouse?

I am sure that more considerations need to be discussed with your family.

Do you have another trade or vocation where you can make a seamless change with similar pay and benefits?
captjns is offline  
Old 21st Jun 2011, 11:34
  #4 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: not where I want to be
Posts: 55
Hi,I know the feeling(except for the suicidal thing).

If you like flying,go fly paragliders or gliders or something like that,this is how flying is supposed to be.No hassle,no BS,no yellow jackets,no security,no body searches,no management,you can even take your kids onto the flying site.
If you actually earn money with flying,just see it as an economical deal between you and the company,nothing else.They give you money,you turn up to fly,and start behaving like teflon,anything they(management,security or whoever) say,just let it slide off.
It has become apparent over the last 30 years that commercial aviation has,unfortunately, turned into a horrible,hassle filled career .
Flying almost seems to be the underdog in aviation,where as all the sidekicks of aviation seem to be the core business these days,like security,airport patrols etc.

Good luck

Last edited by rotorknight; 21st Jun 2011 at 16:03. Reason: typo
rotorknight is offline  
Old 21st Jun 2011, 11:39
  #5 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

Why are you posting on here? Leave your job, because your mindset isn't correct for is anymore.

If you think that 9-5 life at a big corporation has any less 'managerial harmony and BS-filled', you're completely deluded. You'll also be taking your work home with you, and probably be paid substantially less, without a specialist professional degree, and several years experience.

What you feel is, thankfully, experienced by an enormous industry minority. Do as your would-be colleagues in a 9-5 do. Go to work, take the money, go home.

It's a job.
Old 21st Jun 2011, 11:40
  #6 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2003
Location: UK
Age: 43
Posts: 425
Why not try some other form of flying. There are still plenty of fun jobs out there and adventures to be had. What about biz jets ? Air ambulance ? Survey flying ? British Antarctic Survey ?!!

All the problems of management bullying, office politics and general BS exist just as much in any other walk of life.

Good luck.
buzzc152 is offline  
Old 21st Jun 2011, 11:52
  #7 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: killington Vt
Posts: 382
I often ask myself if people really check the terms and working conditions of most airline jobs before they start basic flight training.. They really haven't changed over the last 33 years as least as i see it. I want to fly as much as I can during the day and then go home. Management wants the same bleed them dry deal since the 70's>
filejw is offline  
Old 21st Jun 2011, 12:28
  #8 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 1998
Location: Formerly of Nam
Posts: 1,595
SA I hear you loud and clear bro. I went through the same damn
thing about five years ago.

Everyone's different - most will tell you it hits between 50 to 53
except I'd had a gutful at 45. Its NOT the actual flying, it never
is, its the BULLSHIT. And in my case being a Boeing boy all my
career then suddenly railroaded onto a Scarebus only exacerbated
the problem.

I found relief by buying myself a Super Cub and man did it
make all the difference! No arrogant 200hr wonderkids next
to me, no idiotic voyage reports, no whining despatchers or
pursers, no damn FMCG......just me, the Cub, a few stall turns
and wingovers, and the sky.

I'd say its time you got into a real aeroplane to remember why
you got into this racket to begin with. How you do it is up to
you, but once you do it gets you through that mind-numbing
soul-destroying crap called airline work. And after a while the
positives take over and airline work doesn't appear to stink as
much it did. It still stinks, but the frustration will subside. I
keep my sanity by hooning around in the Cub for a couple of
hours at least once a month.
Slasher is offline  
Old 21st Jun 2011, 12:29
  #9 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2002
Location: dubai
Posts: 942
Have you ever considered network marketing. Can be started on a shoestring budget and you are working for yourself when you want to work.

Go to one of the high street banks and ask in their business section about working from home. There is one outfit that has been around for 90 years.
doubleu-anker is offline  
Old 21st Jun 2011, 12:30
  #10 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 95
Cuurency trading/ spread betting??? Lots of Pilots out there who do it
frozenpilot is offline  
Old 21st Jun 2011, 12:33
  #11 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 1998
Location: Formerly of Nam
Posts: 1,595
Yeh I do FX trading/commodities too to effectively double my
salary (who doesn't?), but what SA is on about is a different
thing altogether.
Slasher is offline  
Old 21st Jun 2011, 12:39
  #12 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Asia
Age: 70
Posts: 2,055
Serious response - If I lived North of Watford I too would be suicidal. Have you considered plying your trade in new pastures?

If job interest is the most important criteria, you may well find that in the developing world. Certainly you will find new challenges.
ZFT is offline  
Old 21st Jun 2011, 12:40
  #13 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: HonkyDong
Posts: 264
@Buzzc152...fun flying and air ambulance shouldn't be included in the same sentence. If this guy has had enough now...flying an air ambulance will not help and I talk from experience. You get the same BS from management coupled with the 24/7 schedule of air ambulance work. It plays havoc with your life...going to bed and being called by your ops an hour later to fly all night and somehow the flights always seem to be at night and over the weekends. It is not fun having to be at the mercy of your phone every waking and sleeping minute. It can be satisfying work but it can also be pretty harrowing seeing some of the poor sods being medevacced out. The grass isn't any greener when management are controlling your life whatever you do. My advice...start your own business SA and be your own boss!!! A beach bar or something is the way forward!!

Last edited by BizJetJockey; 21st Jun 2011 at 14:50.
BizJetJockey is offline  
Old 21st Jun 2011, 12:57
  #14 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 95
@ Slasher,

Great to hear!! Can you offer me advice then?? PM welome

( sorry for thread creep)
frozenpilot is offline  
Old 21st Jun 2011, 13:47
  #15 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 867
If you've been in the left seat for years, anything where you are employed will bring you even more grief. At least most of our problems disappear after 'gear up'.
I would seriously suggest 'self employment' as the happy way forward as you are still master of your own destiny and the tax man can be held at bay. There are downsides, but I really enjoyed my 5 years doing my own tax return. It paid well enough for me to train for an airline job...
macdo is offline  
Old 21st Jun 2011, 13:54
  #16 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 1998
Location: Formerly of Nam
Posts: 1,595
Great to hear!! Can you offer me advice then??
Well I took the PA18 because its a fun taildragger - I can't afford
my dream DH82 because they're so expensive but I manage an
hour now and then every 6 months or so.

The ultimate would be the Mk IX Spitfire but I'd need to win the
lottery to even part-own one of those. There's a chance of a full
endorsement later this year but that depends.

What you decide is up to you frozenpilot but anything simple
and plain fun to fly would be a starting point, maybe along the
lines of a Stearman or similar if you could get access to one.
Slasher is offline  
Old 21st Jun 2011, 14:01
  #17 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In a far better place
Posts: 2,481
The ultimate would be the Mk IX Spit but I'd need to win the
lottery to own one of those. There's a chance of a endorsement
later this year but that depends.
Or marry a rich woman who can support you in manner you want to become accustomed to.
captjns is offline  
Old 21st Jun 2011, 14:03
  #18 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 1998
Location: Formerly of Nam
Posts: 1,595
I lucked out there captjns - despite her vast wealth she was
just too fat and bloody ugly even for my rampant libido and
hated aeroplanes too.
Slasher is offline  
Old 21st Jun 2011, 15:34
  #19 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2005
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 61
Life after flying

Saddest Aviator really has hit the nail on the head.

The job really sucks and most pilots hate their work trapped by lack of transferable skill and the inevitable financial commitments which mean they are stuck bank rolling their families life style at the cost of their own misery sanity and bluntly reduced life quality and expectancy.

Yesterday positioning in plain clothes through East Midlands I was subjected to a security check which in any other scenario would have been sexual assault.

I passed through the scanner and because my flight bag contained the bits and bobs of being a pilot the idiot security guard considered it acceptable to put his hands inside my waist band of my trousers and feel my arse four times. Notwithstanding I am paying for the pleasure of positioning to a base I hate and spending 25 days a month away from home this represents just the tip of the ice berg of the daily crap we all put up with and bluntly most of us have had enough.

The challenge is how to get out and find a satisfying challenging and marketable line of work which pays the mortgage and produces a more balanced lifestyle.

This challenge is not easy. I have been struggling to find a route out for the last couples of years (Captain mid 40's and really have had more than enough now) I have previously run a successful business.

However its that previous experience which holds me back right now. Being very mindful of how tough market conditions are and how very difficult it would be to establish a business that would produce anything like the cash outcome that my job does.

Its a trade off cash for crap. You give up when the bucket of crap is too heavy to carry or you give up when the bucket of cash is too heavy to carry. When both the bucket of cash and the bucket of crap are really heavy you can carry on a bit more in the short term because the burdon of weight is evenly balanced but when you finally give up the exhaustion and damage is more extreme.

Looking at the general population the group that does the most career changes late 30s to mid 40s is people leaving the armed forces and they benefit from a very well developed career resettlement service.

Perhaps what the pilot community needs is a Airline Pilot Resettlement Service. How that would work Im not sure but there are lots of us who want out right now and it would be doing valuable beneficial work.

Perhaps we could get the airlines to sponsor the Ressettlement Service. They could see it as a way of getting rid of expensive experianced crews and filling the seats with cheap shinny smiley faced cadets who will be less bothered about having their arses touched up on a daily basis.
Paul Rice is offline  
Old 21st Jun 2011, 15:47
  #20 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lemonia. Best Greek in the world
Posts: 1,670
Dear Mr/Ms Sad,

You say that you would like some "interest and meaning" from your job, and a big reduction in bs.
I suggest that others here have already described your options.
1. there is no easy panacea. No-one has one. If they do, they do not talk about it as we'd all be there sharpish.
2. You could take what is called an "instrumental" approach to your job. As Mr Rotor says, turn up, do your job and get some interest and meaning from somewhere else. Slasher has some good ideas on what to do. Another friend of mine got a share one of those nasty little acrobatic jobs and clowns around in that. (You can tell I'm not impressed)
3. if you want some interest and meaning from your current employer, get in there and become a manager and aim to become Fleet Director. Talk to some other Fleet Directors. (Start asking around - who is out there that will talk straight? You would be surprised....).
The thing that Fleet Directors hate most??? Pilots who will not properly engage with the airline managers and management processes..................so go help them out.
Ancient Observer is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.