Virgin Atlantic Pilot Strike Ballot
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't think this is over yet. The press release from BALPA says that the company have issued a 'full and final' pay offer. As yet, no one knows what that offer contains, though the Times is suggesting that the headline numbers haven't changed, and there's nothing in that press release to suggest that BALPA is flushed with its own success in the negotiations. It looks, rather, as if the company has issued some kind of ultimatum which BALPA cannot fight, and they've thrown in the towel - hence the withdrawal of the threat of strike action.
I have a feeling the Virgin pilots may have been sold down the river.
I have a feeling the Virgin pilots may have been sold down the river.
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I do not agree that BALPA have negotiated nothing and I don't believe that the managment would have been that daft as to draw a line that would be unacceptable to the pilots. A "final offer" can mean anything at this stage so it will be wise to see what it is.
The truth is that the senior management are so full of themselves that they have no idea which way is up. Their handling, and Ridgway's in particular, laid their mat out when he stated that that a below inflation rise is not a pay cut. That was crass.
Now that an agreement may be on the horizon what about the managment and their ineptitude in dealing with a 97% vote for IA? What about the woman who said that she would break the unions? What about HR being not capable of running water let alone running an airline. The product has dropped and it continues to do so. Aircraft are dirty and in need of refurbishment and management are in and out through an ever open door with the result that VS is changing for the worse. Ridgway is the supposed leader so why doesn't he lead? In many people's minds they believe he can NEVER recover the worth and pride that was once the Virgin brand. He has let it slip but still RB persists with him.
My suggestion to RB is to have a strong word with his mate and tell him how to really run an airline. I would also guess that VS is carrying more surplus staff than one full 744 - maybe two. This one factor alone can cause so many difficulties and disenchanment it is enough to drag the name and the airline down. It doesn't deserve that.
The pilots have demonstrated that there was no need for uncontrolled anger, though there must have been some, when their cause was just and fair. They played the game. The management chose to play another game, which only antagonised them and led to a massive unwinable stance by a management who seem not to understand that the WHOLE airline relies on pilots and its aeroplanes. The rest, including the CC, follow if the airline is being run properly. There is some serious doubt about that.
Sometime soon it will be known what the terms are that BALPA negotiated with the VS management. It is hoped that it is what it should be - a fulfilled promise. Not very difficult - so why was it?
The truth is that the senior management are so full of themselves that they have no idea which way is up. Their handling, and Ridgway's in particular, laid their mat out when he stated that that a below inflation rise is not a pay cut. That was crass.
Now that an agreement may be on the horizon what about the managment and their ineptitude in dealing with a 97% vote for IA? What about the woman who said that she would break the unions? What about HR being not capable of running water let alone running an airline. The product has dropped and it continues to do so. Aircraft are dirty and in need of refurbishment and management are in and out through an ever open door with the result that VS is changing for the worse. Ridgway is the supposed leader so why doesn't he lead? In many people's minds they believe he can NEVER recover the worth and pride that was once the Virgin brand. He has let it slip but still RB persists with him.
My suggestion to RB is to have a strong word with his mate and tell him how to really run an airline. I would also guess that VS is carrying more surplus staff than one full 744 - maybe two. This one factor alone can cause so many difficulties and disenchanment it is enough to drag the name and the airline down. It doesn't deserve that.
The pilots have demonstrated that there was no need for uncontrolled anger, though there must have been some, when their cause was just and fair. They played the game. The management chose to play another game, which only antagonised them and led to a massive unwinable stance by a management who seem not to understand that the WHOLE airline relies on pilots and its aeroplanes. The rest, including the CC, follow if the airline is being run properly. There is some serious doubt about that.
Sometime soon it will be known what the terms are that BALPA negotiated with the VS management. It is hoped that it is what it should be - a fulfilled promise. Not very difficult - so why was it?
Join Date: May 2006
Location: LGW
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I wonder if Sir Beardie has been influenced by O'Leary of late? We could see the flight crew doing other duties on board to pay for the "increase"! I'm sure HR would love to see the crew multi tasking.
Well the offer is out there now so the number crunching can begin. What I don't understand is why was the option of IA taken off the table. It would make sense, perhaps, if the offer had significantly been raised.
I'll let the number experts do the maths and see how it pans out. I hope it is worth it otherwise the company have wriggled free again.
I'll let the number experts do the maths and see how it pans out. I hope it is worth it otherwise the company have wriggled free again.
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The Twilight Zone
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The VS management rhetoric in the press would suggest its a done deal! Correct me if I'm wrong but surely the offer needs to go to a ballot.
Looks like this dispute may have legs!
TBE.
Looks like this dispute may have legs!
TBE.
Join Date: May 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bernouli. There is no lack of integritiy by VS management, their position has been constant. There is nothing to negotiate. They are doing what any good management should do and that is to keep costs down.
In an article in yesterday's Times (8/7/11), it looks like BALPA has rolled over again. The 'final' VS offer they are recommending is hardly any different to that when Virgin pilots first voted for industrial action. What a victory!!
The only tweaking being flexible rosters, profit share (how would you know if VS made a profit anyway?) and the 'promise' of some overtime. Hardly a collapse of the VS management position, but more of a face saving deal for BALPA and VS pilots, whose sphincters are now trembling at the prospect of industrial action.
Looks like the "Proud" VS pilots have no stomach for seeing through this spat, in order to gain a meaningful increase to their pay.
In an article in yesterday's Times (8/7/11), it looks like BALPA has rolled over again. The 'final' VS offer they are recommending is hardly any different to that when Virgin pilots first voted for industrial action. What a victory!!
The only tweaking being flexible rosters, profit share (how would you know if VS made a profit anyway?) and the 'promise' of some overtime. Hardly a collapse of the VS management position, but more of a face saving deal for BALPA and VS pilots, whose sphincters are now trembling at the prospect of industrial action.
Looks like the "Proud" VS pilots have no stomach for seeing through this spat, in order to gain a meaningful increase to their pay.
No guts no glory a bunch of sideway talk, strike if you must, you might get paid more than the bus driver in you'r town, otherwise please!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: UK
Age: 69
Posts: 475
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Count whatever your name is, surely the role of a GOOD trade union during pay discussions is to squeeze as much as they can without damaging the hand that feeds.
So with management doing all they can to keep costs down (fair enough) and the union squeezing to get as much as possible (fair enough), isn't the likely outcome when a GOOD trade union is involved, is a little extra here and there?
Now I have no idea what the virgin pilots think about this offer but isn't just possible that BALPA, under the circumstances, have in fact done a bloody good job.
So with management doing all they can to keep costs down (fair enough) and the union squeezing to get as much as possible (fair enough), isn't the likely outcome when a GOOD trade union is involved, is a little extra here and there?
Now I have no idea what the virgin pilots think about this offer but isn't just possible that BALPA, under the circumstances, have in fact done a bloody good job.
Bernouli. There is no lack of integritiy by VS management, their position has been constant. There is nothing to negotiate. They are doing what any good management should do and that is to keep costs down.
In an article in yesterday's Times (8/7/11), it looks like BALPA has rolled over again. The 'final' VS offer they are recommending is hardly any different to that when Virgin pilots first voted for industrial action. What a victory!!
The only tweaking being flexible rosters, profit share (how would you know if VS made a profit anyway?) and the 'promise' of some overtime. Hardly a collapse of the VS management position, but more of a face saving deal for BALPA and VS pilots, whose sphincters are now trembling at the prospect of industrial action.
Looks like the "Proud" VS pilots have no stomach for seeing through this spat, in order to gain a meaningful increase to their pay.
In an article in yesterday's Times (8/7/11), it looks like BALPA has rolled over again. The 'final' VS offer they are recommending is hardly any different to that when Virgin pilots first voted for industrial action. What a victory!!
The only tweaking being flexible rosters, profit share (how would you know if VS made a profit anyway?) and the 'promise' of some overtime. Hardly a collapse of the VS management position, but more of a face saving deal for BALPA and VS pilots, whose sphincters are now trembling at the prospect of industrial action.
Looks like the "Proud" VS pilots have no stomach for seeing through this spat, in order to gain a meaningful increase to their pay.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Sydney
Age: 60
Posts: 1,542
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Best of luck to all the Virgin Atlantic crews.
Qantas crews have just voted on PIA in Australia, 89% of pilots voted, 94% YES to industrial action. [first time since 1966]
We only want <3% pay-rise but some security against off-shoring our jobs.
Worldwide it is time to stop this cancer and the demeaning of our profession.
Qantas crews have just voted on PIA in Australia, 89% of pilots voted, 94% YES to industrial action. [first time since 1966]
We only want <3% pay-rise but some security against off-shoring our jobs.
Worldwide it is time to stop this cancer and the demeaning of our profession.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by CyberBob
Nothing like a bit more drama. Let's see what's been offered before the assumed, mad scramble for paddles Digitalis
Balpa are presenting this as some kind of success on their website. I'd love to know what it would take for them to declare a failure!
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Up north
Posts: 1,657
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So what you are saying is "Stop fighting for better T&Cs in this business because there are lots of people worse off than you." ? ?
Is that how we maintain "integrity"?
Is that how we maintain "integrity"?
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: MARS
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So what is the inside scoop then folks - just why is the VACC recomending that you accept the deal.??
As a Union member for 20 years I have never felt so betrayed. They Marched us up to the top of the hill and then the Grand Old Duke of York went to the pub with his final salary pension scheme, company car and £35K a month from pilots in Virgin and did a 180 degree turn.
Still it's election time next year for the General Secretary and some of us remember Chris Darke's demise. Perhaps he should show some humility and admit he lead us into a fight he was not ultimately going to support.
The VACC asked for support for strike action. Virgin Pilots gave it and told their family's, their banks and their colleagues that the action was just. 8 Months later BALPA ask us now to accept the same deal that was offered back then.
If I had a word of caution beware of whether BALPA act in your interest or just want media grabbing headlines " BALPA secures deal in Virgin Atlantic" Funny how they dropped the handshake symbol of their website so quickly after it was questioned.
BALPA and the VACC have sold out. We have damaged the VAA Brand and business and in return they have accepted a pay deal that was given to all non unionised employees!
F
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: UK
Age: 55
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IMHO
IMHO I feel VA pilots need to stop whinging, and start realising they are already onto a good deal.
750 hours a year.....if only!
Yes we all know your management is distinctly lacking in ability but you work for a small operation linked to a big brand. Nothing more.
Regardless of the irregular and highly inaccurate accounting processesof VA I would be surprised if the airline has made any money during the recession.
On top of this even with the strong link to the Virgin brand SA have been unable to find a buyer for the 49% stake they hold for a number of years....why.......because no major airline is willing to take on a loss making company which is looking increasingly isolated.
As a pilot for a slightly larger company not only have I taken a pay cut over the last three years but also taken unpaid leave and worked unpaid. O, did I forget to mention the 900 hours as well.
To summaries, boys, you’re on a good deal and although your managers are lacking chill out.
Just fly your 330s and enjoy the 750 hours while it lasts.
750 hours a year.....if only!
Yes we all know your management is distinctly lacking in ability but you work for a small operation linked to a big brand. Nothing more.
Regardless of the irregular and highly inaccurate accounting processesof VA I would be surprised if the airline has made any money during the recession.
On top of this even with the strong link to the Virgin brand SA have been unable to find a buyer for the 49% stake they hold for a number of years....why.......because no major airline is willing to take on a loss making company which is looking increasingly isolated.
As a pilot for a slightly larger company not only have I taken a pay cut over the last three years but also taken unpaid leave and worked unpaid. O, did I forget to mention the 900 hours as well.
To summaries, boys, you’re on a good deal and although your managers are lacking chill out.
Just fly your 330s and enjoy the 750 hours while it lasts.