You're own enemy - idiots!
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Not in Europe chap.
That you, Europeans, or the original poster believe it to be experienced only speaks to a general lack of experience and the bigger picture of people believing they are more than they really are, and reaching beyond what they are to get what they think they should have.
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Two thousand hours is about the time to move on from flight instructing and find that first piston freight job somewhere
Not in Europe chap
the route instructing - piston freight - TP freight - coorperate jet or regional airline - Airline does not exist as such in Europe.
There are not so many instructors positions, there are almost no piston freighters around.
BTW, thread opener wrote:
He has been asked to pay £18k up front despite his 2000 hours experience and only get a temporary contract.
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I wish that people wouldn't pay for line training either. That is the moralistic view, and I admire that, however the fact remains that you and I cannot pursuade thousands of people not to part with their money - that ship set sail long ago and it isn't coming back to port. Rather than targeting newbies with the mantra about not paying for training, people should be looking at those who are already in influential positions in the industry - the chief/management pilots of the world. The trouble is, like most pilots, once inside the industry they forget where they came from, and they are supporting these "self sponsored" schemes. Young wannabee pilots have been sold out by the senior guys and the unions.
Compare that to doctors - when the UK health service tried to slash the terms and conditions of junior doctors, everybody from top consultants down to house doctors were striking and protesting about it.
I finish with two points. It is easier to change an industry from the inside than the outside.
Secondly, what have the unions done about this issue? Nothing! Why, because most of the union members already have jobs and don't care about the new guys and girls. This is short sighted though, because the erosion of terms and conditions starts at the junior positions and works up (not the other way around), so in the long term they will be a victim of their own selfishness.
I am fortunate in that I got a job with one of the few airlines that still pay for all the training, but I had to move thousands of miles away from home to achieve this. I really feel sorry for the guys and girls trying to get a flying job these days.
Compare that to doctors - when the UK health service tried to slash the terms and conditions of junior doctors, everybody from top consultants down to house doctors were striking and protesting about it.
I finish with two points. It is easier to change an industry from the inside than the outside.
Secondly, what have the unions done about this issue? Nothing! Why, because most of the union members already have jobs and don't care about the new guys and girls. This is short sighted though, because the erosion of terms and conditions starts at the junior positions and works up (not the other way around), so in the long term they will be a victim of their own selfishness.
I am fortunate in that I got a job with one of the few airlines that still pay for all the training, but I had to move thousands of miles away from home to achieve this. I really feel sorry for the guys and girls trying to get a flying job these days.
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Thanks Dude, I didn't think I'd need to explain it!
A rather elitist post Gupster, I would have thought thou of the Uber experienced Uber land would have known what I was on about.
A rather elitist post Gupster, I would have thought thou of the Uber experienced Uber land would have known what I was on about.
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1. This guy is clearly a troll
2. So your brother, wth 2000 hrs jet time, is taking your mum's life savings to pay for a type rating to get a temporary job? I'm afraid the second biggest idiot here is your brother....although I assume you think your brother is the biggest idiot.
3. The biggest idiot however is the person who, when asked why he is letting his brother/mother do it, replied: "LOL, not up to me, not my money"...so that would be yourself.
So although you may say "I laugh in the face at the situation you have creasted for yourselfs with your selfish attitude", in reality by letting your mum give away her life savings and not doing anything about it simply because its not your problem is probably one of the most selfish things I've ever heard. It is in fact people like you that are aiding the degradation of T's &C's by standing by and simply ignoring it because its not your problem!
4. Thank you Bealzebub for continuing to post on here, for all that is bad about pprune, your posts are pretty much all that is good about it!!
2. So your brother, wth 2000 hrs jet time, is taking your mum's life savings to pay for a type rating to get a temporary job? I'm afraid the second biggest idiot here is your brother....although I assume you think your brother is the biggest idiot.
3. The biggest idiot however is the person who, when asked why he is letting his brother/mother do it, replied: "LOL, not up to me, not my money"...so that would be yourself.
So although you may say "I laugh in the face at the situation you have creasted for yourselfs with your selfish attitude", in reality by letting your mum give away her life savings and not doing anything about it simply because its not your problem is probably one of the most selfish things I've ever heard. It is in fact people like you that are aiding the degradation of T's &C's by standing by and simply ignoring it because its not your problem!
4. Thank you Bealzebub for continuing to post on here, for all that is bad about pprune, your posts are pretty much all that is good about it!!
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Apologies in advance if your first language is Slavic--I understand the omission then.
Otherwise, I wish to point out that you are missing the second person possessive pronoun, in order for your opening statement to be grammatically correct--assuming that "idiots" refers to the subject of your sentence, thus: You're your own enemy - idiots!
An alternative is that you intended to express yourself by means of a verbless sentence and have used a contraction instead of a pronoun, as in: Your own enemy - idiots! Apart from the obvious spelling mistake, I would find this phrase poorly chosen due to its ambiguity, as it's not clear whether the interjective clause "idiots!" refers to the enemy as the subject of the implied verb "to be" (although this in itself raises the issue of concordance in number unless the idiots as a group are the enemy, rather than each of them individually), or whether it is an exophoric reference to the missing subject of the preceding clause.
I would be most appreciative if you could clarify the above. Thank you.
Otherwise, I wish to point out that you are missing the second person possessive pronoun, in order for your opening statement to be grammatically correct--assuming that "idiots" refers to the subject of your sentence, thus: You're your own enemy - idiots!
An alternative is that you intended to express yourself by means of a verbless sentence and have used a contraction instead of a pronoun, as in: Your own enemy - idiots! Apart from the obvious spelling mistake, I would find this phrase poorly chosen due to its ambiguity, as it's not clear whether the interjective clause "idiots!" refers to the enemy as the subject of the implied verb "to be" (although this in itself raises the issue of concordance in number unless the idiots as a group are the enemy, rather than each of them individually), or whether it is an exophoric reference to the missing subject of the preceding clause.
I would be most appreciative if you could clarify the above. Thank you.
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All the rest ('bloody europeans think they are experienced with 2Khrs') is your 'american' imagination or interpretation.
The original poster suggested that his brother is experienced, at 2,000 hours. That's not experienced.
Another poster (lord spandex) suggested that to Europeans, 2,000 hours is experienced.
It's still very little experience. That spandex thinks it's a great deal of experience doesn't make it so.
A 2,000 hour pilot doesn't have much experience upon which to stand, let alone much bargaining power. Perhaps in Europe.
I found the original poster's notion that his brother's meager experience ("despite his 2,000 hours) ought to merit anything to be humorous, just shy of laughable, to say nothing of arrogant.
I have no idea which European has stepped onto your toes...
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I think it's a bit rich, by the way, to be calling other people idiots, when you don't know the difference between affect and effect.
Idiot
SNS3Guppy - you're right! And plenty of us from the European side of the world think that 2,000 hours is very low experience. But kids these days! They want it all and they want it now
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They want it all and they want it now
So you can blame the cadets/youngsters all you like and fling accusations of greed around, or you could appreciate that in the UK (and much of Europe) the US way of accumulating hours and experience is nigh on impossible. I can understand the concern many in the US and other parts of the world have about placing 200hr cadets straight into the co-pilots seat of a 737 and the limitations these pilots will initially have, but the fact remains there does not exist a big enough GA industry in the UK/much of Europe that would support the "work your way up" system that is clearly the status quo elsewhere, particularly in the US.
