Does this article apply to holiday pay with RYR??
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From: Somewhere
Does this article apply to holiday pay with RYR??
Hello everyone, has anyone seen the following article either here or in the paper? I don't want another thread slating RYR but would like to know thoughts about this, I don't know if it would apply as they might tie it in with something with the Irish laws, and do not know much about them, comments pleased thanks a lot!!
Agency Workers Directive
Agency Workers Directive
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This is the first I read or hear about this issue.
I'm not adequately schooled in these legal issues to give you a conclusive answer as to if this will apply to Ryanair and Brookfield or how it would affect working conditions.
However, my gut feeling is not to expect too much from this.
I'm not adequately schooled in these legal issues to give you a conclusive answer as to if this will apply to Ryanair and Brookfield or how it would affect working conditions.
However, my gut feeling is not to expect too much from this.
Joined: May 2001
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From: England
Where I'm presently contracting (non-aviation), there is a desperate drive to move all contractors off umbrella companies. So scared they are of this new Agency Worker Directive, that management has stated anyone not wishing to go Ltd can expect their contracts not to be renewed!
RYR BRK pilots own their Ltd companies but there is of course an "agency" involved. It would be interesting to see how this is interpreted with an Irish company employing and basing people from/in the UK. I would suggest you write to them for a clear answer.
By the way, this is more than just about holidays, companies would be forced to treat agency staff much more in the same way they treat permanent staff.
RYR BRK pilots own their Ltd companies but there is of course an "agency" involved. It would be interesting to see how this is interpreted with an Irish company employing and basing people from/in the UK. I would suggest you write to them for a clear answer.
By the way, this is more than just about holidays, companies would be forced to treat agency staff much more in the same way they treat permanent staff.
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From: Still looking
Been a few cases
Had chat with some tax advisers a while ago. Their warning was that uk employment tribunals were now ahead of tax legislation. One might be technically correct under taxation law when contracting in staff but employment law is quite another matter and the courts are now likely to treat a contractor as staff. There were a few tweaks planned to IR35 but the evidence is mounting that many contractors do not full fill the criteria of self employed. Advice was to beware of the benefits of contract staff!
Stand to be corrected but think there will soon come some scrutiny from HMRC. As an aside. A chap I know who joined one of the biggest pilot contractors has been contacted by HMRC who are not happy with him being domiciled in the uk but working through another eu country company, paying tax there etc... Etc... no second prizes for guessing whom I speak of.
Keep the blue side up!
Stand to be corrected but think there will soon come some scrutiny from HMRC. As an aside. A chap I know who joined one of the biggest pilot contractors has been contacted by HMRC who are not happy with him being domiciled in the uk but working through another eu country company, paying tax there etc... Etc... no second prizes for guessing whom I speak of.
Keep the blue side up!
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From: Somewhere
Much appreciated for all you help, will have to contact the agency and see what they have to say, but as already said I am not getting my hopes up!! I don't really know if it how this could affect us... Cheers
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From: U K
The guys on Brookfield contracts get treated just the same as the guys on a Ryanair contract. They also get paid substantialy more money, what more do they want? This seems to me that they would be entitled to a pay cut to equal that of the employed staff, but maybe give them a little holiday pay. i'm sure they will jump at this. not!
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Ballsout are you on a RYR contract? I would prefer to be on that as it would be a salary and a guaranteed take home per month, thus making it easier to get a mortgage and your tax is already sorted, just a view on what would happen with the new laws coming in, cheers anyway
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From: U K
pilot3103. Yes I am but have considered transfering to Brookfield many times as the pay is so much better. There is lots of bleeting about holiday pay but the contractors get paid by the flying hour. It starts out fairly low but rapidly increases. many fly to the max of 900 hours a year, I know some don't but everyone gets a fair ammount of flying. I haven't flown with anyone who wasn't earning a good wage (outside of training) and people still bleet on about wanting holiday pay as a contractor. As far as geting a mortgage etc, surely you can get a P60 or some sort of referance from your LTD company if you are Brookfield?
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: My house
Brookfielders DO NOT earn much more than the Ryanair guys and girls!!!
If you do the maths then we come out with roughly the same.
If you are a floater then yes you may fly near the 900 hrs and earn more but you spend more on hotels travel etc.
Based on the average 700 hrs/year Brookfielders take 49,000 Euro
The same for a Ryanair contract 26,000 sterling basic and 19/hr sector pay is 39,300 Sterling or 46,000 Euro. Factor into that the reliability of a garanteed monthly pay, holiday pay, sick pay, pension and the fact that you DO NOT go out of base then I would say you are better off!!
I would like to have a ryanair contract because it would suit me and my wife better to have the monthly pay whilst sitting at home on STBY, it would also allow me to get a mortgage!!
If you do the maths then we come out with roughly the same.
If you are a floater then yes you may fly near the 900 hrs and earn more but you spend more on hotels travel etc.
Based on the average 700 hrs/year Brookfielders take 49,000 Euro
The same for a Ryanair contract 26,000 sterling basic and 19/hr sector pay is 39,300 Sterling or 46,000 Euro. Factor into that the reliability of a garanteed monthly pay, holiday pay, sick pay, pension and the fact that you DO NOT go out of base then I would say you are better off!!
I would like to have a ryanair contract because it would suit me and my wife better to have the monthly pay whilst sitting at home on STBY, it would also allow me to get a mortgage!!
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From: U K
Floating Captain does 900 hours a year and earns about 150,000 euro's. He or she can put all sorts of things against tax so pays probably less than 20% tax.
I normally do 900 hours a year and earn about £85,000 and pay 40% tax. I don't live where I am based so I have to pay for travel and accomodation anyway and can't even claim tax off for that. Thats why I have given it some serious thought, the main thing that has stopped me is the changing contracts for Brookfield.
I normally do 900 hours a year and earn about £85,000 and pay 40% tax. I don't live where I am based so I have to pay for travel and accomodation anyway and can't even claim tax off for that. Thats why I have given it some serious thought, the main thing that has stopped me is the changing contracts for Brookfield.
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: My house
Id be surprised if they offer any more Floating contracts as they were supposed to be stopping that, then again if they need the skippers then it may well be increasing.
Is money that important? Id rather spend my days off at home, im not keen on the traveling. I would also be very surprised if you manage to stay under the 40% bracket, I have paid 40% on occasion!
Is money that important? Id rather spend my days off at home, im not keen on the traveling. I would also be very surprised if you manage to stay under the 40% bracket, I have paid 40% on occasion!
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From: U K
Staying at home is great if that's an option, however if you don't live near a base it's not so easy. My accountant tels me If I go contracting I will end up paying about 15-17% in tax after all of the alowances I can claim.
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: My house
Is that one of the Irish accountants? I was given a projected take home of 85% whereas actual take home is nearer 74% having paid 40 % tax on the odd paycheque.
Thats a fair point, im lucky to be at home, I do earn less and fly less for the pleasure of the drizzle though.
Thats a fair point, im lucky to be at home, I do earn less and fly less for the pleasure of the drizzle though.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: Somewhere
For me money would not be as important as a secure wage, I am investigating the change to RYR contract, I would not mind forfeiting some cash to have a normal wage, or at least a set amount per month and the tax is already sorted out for you, I find it a real pain in the arse having to keep all the receipts and then total them up at the end of the year, I am self employed not through one of RYRs tax minions, I still think that brown envelops are being passed around somewhere along the line!! If you move from RYR contract then the money is less than what I was offered, if I became a cpt for a year on the BRK contract, then that would be my 5 years and would then have to sign a new BRK on much less money, That us why would be a good idea to get the RYR one if poss
